Buying LE's to Sell at Higher Price

This is called flipping-and-scalping and is generally frowned upon, if the LE was only just released within the last year or sooner. Idk what the protocol is anymore, but I know people used to get banned for that sort of thing.

 

Sadly, this does happen quite often. Sure there are times when a person gets a doll and knows it will not work out, but to ask for twice the price that they paid for it makes it seem fishy.

I had a WTB for a limited doll in the MP. A member contacted me saying she had the doll I was looking for and would I like to buy it. Sure thing! Then I found out she had JUST bought it from another member (who had not even shipped it to her yet). It got ugly real fast.. but in the end, I got my doll with the scalper profiting $100 in the process. That flipper was banned due to other shady transactions quite soon after I got my doll.

 

What do you think?

People are free to buy and sell dolls for whatever reasons they feel like having.

Is it a smart way to make a profit?

There are people who are doll dealers/sellers who seem to be able to make some money that way. I suppose you'd really have to know the market. You'd also have to have enough money to invest in the dolls. And you would always take a chance on losing money if the doll doesn't sell for more than you bought it for, and more than the time you use buying and selling it... plus fees and stuff.

Do you approve?

It is totally none of my business what other people do when they buy and sell dolls. I really don't care since it totally doesn't matter what I think. If I happen to want a LE at the price someone is selling it for, then I suppose I'd be very happy that someone bought and is now selling the doll... And it doesn't hurt me if I'm NOT interested in buying the doll. So I don't see any harm in it.

Would you ever invest in a LE doll just to sell it at a higher price?

I have never done this. That is a lot of money for me to spend to try and make a bit of profit. I'd think the time and effort and fees would make it not worth my while, really. But if someone wants to do this, more power to them!


Do you buy/sell LE's with no initial intent of keeping them?

I always buy LEs with the intention of keeping them. (I have a LOT of LEs, and have never sold one.) But that's just me. I don't mind other people selling theirs. Why should it bother me? And it seems like it would be unfair to MAKE people keep their dolls. Why shouldn't they be able to sell them? And why shouldn't buyers be able to have LEs on the marketplace??? The re-sell market is good for dolls.

Another question to consider might be if it's ethical. Considering that some LE's are limited by number and a first-come-first serve basis, buying a doll with the intent of selling them at a higher price might take away someone else who actually really want the doll's chance to buy one.

if it is first-come-first-served, then that's just how it is, and it is fair for whomever is first to get them. Those who don't get them will still be out of luck--or rather, they may be in GOOD luck if they can buy on the Marketplace from someone selling one. If everyone kept theirs, they would be totally out of luck. The rules don't say, "You cannot buy if you are going to sell the doll." That isn't fair to ANYONE.

Everyone gets a FAIR shot at buying. That's it. What owners do after that is none of anyone's business. Don't think, "Oh, I'd have gotten one if that horrible other person didn't get it." Because that's not true. I mean, people complain even when the doll owners DON'T sell the doll! They are just ticked off that they didn't get the doll. Well, tough luck. That's life. You can't get it all your way. Sorry, but I'm totally unsympathetic. No one sells stuff by determining who wants a doll the most! Probably a TON of doll owners would FAIL to get a doll using that criteria! Often people really, really want a doll and then end up selling it immediately. People can change their minds. And some of them can want to make a bit of money if they have a rare doll. Fair is fair.

People are allowed to sell their dolls.

People may or may not like what certain others do, but I say, just live with it. Don't buy from them if you disapprove!

I don't disapprove, but I don't really like paying more than retail. But other folk WILL want to pay more for a doll they really want... so, hey, good for them!

 

When people actually buy limiteds for the only reason to sell them at a higher price it is called 'scalping' and is considered bad form.

To be honest, I don't think it is a smart way to invest money, because you'll never know if the limited you bought will be much sought after. People always think that Volks limiteds go for much more than their original asking price. Still, there are quite a few of them, who haven't been popular at all and are sold at a loss. It's a risky way of making a business.

 

Scalping rare or limited dolls is iffy ethically, but it's not illegal. It is, however, a terrible gamble. Pieces that used to be hot items on the MP often suddenly lose value due to economy, desirability, a new release, or simple market whim/popularity. Dollshe Saints used to go for at least $1000 USD. Now you can get one on the MP for about $600.

 

What??? Who cares? If they only buy a doll to sell it I don't see how that is morally dubious at all! What do you know about them anyway?

Ok, seriously, it's like an extra chance to get a Limited after the fact, you're not going to buy it because they have it new??? I really- alright, you know pvc anime figures? People usually buy like 3 at a time just to resell later, since they all usually constitute as 'limiteds' functionally. Buy for 120, sell for 180 kind of ideal mindset. I see no difference. It's not even your problem, it's theirs. They can change their minds if they wish. they can sell as soon as they buy it, buyers remorse and all. If they want some extra cash, who doesn't? This doesn't even ping on the morality radar, I don't even know.

Someone explain to me why this is ~naughty~

 

As for the case where people sell parts of dolls, (such as fantasy parts for Soom LEs) sometimes they don't have the option to order a doll without the fantasy part. So when the doll comes, the person might not want the fantasy part and then it would make perfect sense for them to sell it on the marketplace.

 

What do you think:

Everyone has a chance to buy a doll, & just because someone else was able to buy one just to sell it again does not mean I would have had a better chance. Now if I had come across this question around the time Volks put out SDC Renee.. I would have strongly disagreed. There is nothing worse than sitting up late at night for a chance to try & buy a doll.. & then once she is in the shopping cart .. she goes POOF !! Only to find the dolls popping up on auction sites at triple the price can sting !!


Is it a smart way to make a profit:

If you can afford to buy LE dolls knowing you will turn a profit then yes it's a smart way to make money. It's sounds too risky to me.


Would you ever invest in a LE Doll just to sell it at a higher price ?

If I wanted the wig or outfit.. then I might consider investing in buying the doll to resell, but not at a higher price.

People seem to assume that people that have LE dolls listed at a higher price bought the doll from the company at the original price. If your buying a doll from someone who bought it just to resell it.. why would you sell it to someone else for less than you paid for it.. if it turned out not to be the right doll for whatever reason ??


Do you buy/sell LE with not intent of keeping them ?

I've bought LE outfits for one or two items, & sold the rest of the outfit.. but I would take out the cost of the items that I kept. <~~ Some people get really mad about this, & keep asking for the missing items to be added to my auction. Even after I already said that I bought the outfit simply for a certain items. There was a SD sized dress set that I bought for just the Paisley Jumper, & some people acted like I was a criminal for putting it on my MSD, & selling the rest.

The ethical twist for me is that when the people who buy the LE & resell them at a higher price.. they almost never get any of the added services like having the doll sanded or coated to add a little protection to the doll.

 

What do you think?
As far as moral quibbles are concerned, I take no issue with this. If something is first-come-first-served, there are the early birds which get the worm and then there are the people who missed out by a few minutes, or maybe a few days. Whichever one of the two groups - late or early - you fit into will usually have to do with luck: did you see the news on DoA? Was your PC in repairs or your internet offline while the news was out? Small things make the difference between getting that grail doll or simply missing out.

Is it a smart way to make a profit?
Depending on whether the buyer knows that there will be a market for their item before they buy it will determine whether or not it was a smart decision in the long run. At the moment the decision is taken it is certainly a risky way of attempting to make a profit if the doll is not one you intend to keep.

Do you approve?
frankly I'm aware my opinion will not affect these things happenning, but...
Honestly, yes. Yes, I do approve because these people are making investments with their money and it's up to them whether or not to do so.

Would you ever invest in a LE doll just to sell it at a higher price?
I know I've certainly considered it but haven't done so due to the economic climate being awful as it is. If you hypothetically consider said LE doll (such as a VOLKS Hinaichigo or other Rozen Maiden LE doll that without a shadow of a doubt will be someone's grail doll) holding its value in the same way as gold, and your currency goes through inflation.......... Well, it could be a bum investment even if people are technically paying more for it than what you bought it for. So I know I won't be buying any very expensive LE's any time soon - at least until things stabilise a little more.
I know 'scalping' is really frowned upon/illegal, so more likely than not, if I ever chose to sell an LE doll, you can bet I would have attempted to bond with her first. Thus it would never be 'scalping', because I would surely be selling her a long time after I bought her.

Do you buy/sell LE's with no initial intent of keeping them?
I certainly haven't done so, although I did tell my parents that if I chose to sell my recently acquired LE grail doll, she would probably maintain/raise her price if I chose to sell her at a later date, unlike my first doll. I take very good care of my dolls as well, so she'd be unlikely to have any damage.

Another question to consider might be if it's ethical. Considering that some LE's are limited by number and a first-come-first serve basis, buying a doll with the intent of selling them at a higher price might take away someone else who actually really want the doll's chance to buy one.
addressed above. There are no ethical quibbles here. It's a harsh world whichever person you are: the buyer or the one who missed out. The latter here might even make a profit if the doll devalues with a little time due to being unpopular on the second hand market.

 

What do you think?
If it's a time-limited, great! It gives someone who missed out originally a chance to get the doll later. It's not as though the scalper buying it prevented anyone else from getting the doll. However, if it's a limited-by-number item that sells out in seconds, I'll admit that I get annoyed with the person. Waking up at a weird time to get a doll and then missing it to a scalper with a faster internet connection by a fraction of a second is frustrating.


Is it a smart way to make a profit?
Generally, no. Since you have to recoup the original cost + shipping + customs (if applicable), I don't think the profit margin would be worth it for most LEs.

Would you ever invest in a LE doll just to sell it at a higher price? Do you buy/sell LE's with no initial intent of keeping them?
No. However, I do feel better in a sense buying an LE than a default. If I get a default and then don't like it, there's no way I'll be able to recoup the money spent. If I buy an LE and don't like it, there's a chance that someone who missed out may be willing to pay the original price or even a bit more. (Shipping is still gone, though, and since I pay the buyer's shipping, I lose even more money.) But, if you consider how many LEs are released, chances are a lot people would think, "Oh well, missed that one. But, look! A better one has been released since then!" and then there goes their money on a different doll.

 

Overall, scalping is kind of an annoyance but on the big scale of morality this is suuuuuper small potatoes if it even makes a blip on the radar at all. And honestly I probably only notice it with bjds because their price tags are so big and their editions so small to begin with - as somebody else mentioned, with toy or figure collecting it's pretty normal for every serious collector to buy 3 of a release: one to keep in pristine in-box condition, one to display, and one as potential investment/resell.

Also, I don't think scalping for bjd can really work any more. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like I used to see much higher prices on both y!j and the marketplace. Now, not so much, and limited editions or even OOAK dolls sit there for ages, with multiple price drops from the seller. Indeed, there are some that are tempting because they are going almost below original sale price for a limited in mint condition.

I think the bjd hobby has got so many different companies, so many different styles and options now, and above all soooooo many limited editions flying out every other day that picking out a limited that's sure to be resell-worthy is going to be more of a crapshoot than a surefire investment anyway. I used to always know what the newest Volks or Luts or Dollshe limited was, back in the early days when there were fewer companies, because it seemed like everybody would be talking about them. Now? I can't even tell you what the most recent dolls from those companies are, because there are plenty of other dolls and other companies to catch my eye.

 

Overall this is quite common, especially for Volks doll (both SD and DD). Dolls are bought and sold on Yahoo Auction. It just depends on how much the buyer is willing to pay for it. And the price can go a lot more than its original value.

 

I would never do it myself because the BJD market is incredibly unstable and very oversaturated and thus is a terrible investment, but I have no issues with other people flipping or scalping. These are luxury collector's items, not essentials needed for living, and everyone has a fair shot at purchasing a doll when they are released. It may be a little tacky to flip or scalp, but being tacky is not a moral or ethical dilemma.

I personally find it more repugnant to read sales threads and try to judge people based on what you think they did with the doll, like someone must always have a sob story to sell something they own.

 

I could and would never do this. I find it a little unethical, but I also could never justify buying a doll I didn't truly love. To me, this hobby is a lot about doing what you love and loving a doll that you find to be beautiful. To just buy a doll to resell it defeats the purpose of the hobby, in my eyes. And what if I prevented someone who truly loved the face of that doll from getting it? I also wouldn't want to risk being about to resell it and losing money.

 

Hear, hear! Selling a doll isn't a moral crisis.

 

As Kim said, it's not a moral/ethical issue. Unless you are recasting or otherwise stealing a doll, ethics doesn't enter into it. It's not my business, nor yours, nor anyone's, to demand to know the reason that anybody is selling anything. (THAT is what I find tacky.)

"Taking away someone else's chance to buy the doll" is a very old Song of Entitlement, and it's just as ridiculous today as it was in 2006. It basically says "Would-Be Buyer is entitled to that doll, but Real-Life Buyer isn't, so Real-Life Buyer should step aside". That 'someone else' already has every bit as much chance to buy the doll as anyone. Not everybody gets everything they want on the first try-- this is the way life works. If that 'someone else' wants the doll, then s/he can get in line for it durings its sales period like everyone else who could, or s/he can buy it secondhand like everyone else who couldn't.

With all that said, no, I personally don't buy dolls to sell. I don't have the time to waste buying dolls for other people; I don't have the desire to burn lots of energy scoring a rare doll & then not keep it in my own collection. I only buy dolls I want to keep. Towards that end, I have bought plenty of secondhand LEs, and often paid more than retail, because those prices were what it cost to bring the doll home.

I don't care whether the dealer was selling the doll to feed her eight starving children or to buy herself another Prada bag. Without those people who stand in line at a Dolpa for 6 hours and then put that doll up on YJ, many of us on this side of the world would never see half of those event-only LEs. If they're charging me for the 6 hours of labor they blew waiting in line, and 4 hours of driving to get to the event, and the hotel-room they had to stay in during the event, and the cost of the two gallons of gas it took to get there and home, that's their business. It's my business to pay what they're asking, or to refuse their price & then continue to miss out on the doll because nobody else is selling it any cheaper.

 

Personally......it pisses me off. They can do what they want, but you would never catch me buying from them....for anything. The dolls are expensive enough, and to have someone buy, just to resell higher.......ergggg......

I personally can't stand people who will take advantage of other people like this. I don't think it says much about them as a person.

As to making judgements on people for what they are doing.........I am sorry....but if an artist doll just had a run that was delivered, and within the next few days they put it up for sale for twice as much as they paid......I think that they are unethical people who take advantage of others. These artist dolls are really expensive to begin with. If someone has the money to buy a limited just to sell it, then I don't think they need the money from the sale most likely, and are just doing it because they can make money.

I like people who are in a hobby for the fun of it, not the profit.

 

People are fickle, they change their minds constantly and you know what? That's great for me. I am a rather new collector and if it wasn't for people selling their LE's I would never have been able to acquire the ones released before I even knew what BJDs were.

I commend resellers for taking initiative and buying when they see potential. Before dolls, I was heavily involved in philately as I interned for a stamp appraiser who was also a buyer and seller himself. I see so shame in buying when you spot cheap prices and making a profit, just as there's no shame in going to the post office and stocking up on new limited stamps. It's speculation. It's risky*. It's fair, anyone can do it. It's business.

There are obviously BETTER ways to go about it, like that case I read in a previous post here, trying to flip a doll before you even have it? That's ridiculous and I would never do that and I would probably be offended if it was done to me.

*I wanted to provide an example, say you purchased a SOOM monthly doll with the sole purpose of reselling it, and then it was released again during a free choice event? What if a similar doll is released either from SOOM or another company all together? What if you just have no interest in it? What is there are recast/bootleg scares regarding your particular sculpt, people may want to avoid it all together. There are plenty of risks involved.

I know for a lot of people involved in expensive hobbies, the line dividing "keep" or "sell" is often blurred. Up until a few days ago I didn't know what "feeler" threads were! New things are always coming out, unexpected expenses can arise, anyone can have any reason for wanting to let go of their dolls, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is, it's nobody's business if you're buying a doll to resell or keep. Be it second hand or from the company itself.

I am happy to know there are resellers out there who would buy my dolls quickly at a discounted price if I needed money in the case of an emergency. I do sometimes wonder if some of the resellers I've come across pay taxes on their income, but then again, that's none of my business either!

I love buying, selling and trading, I am certainly open to the idea of buying a LE doll to profit off of, or what may be more likely, adding on additional option parts, "full sets" and sell those separately in the hopes of recouping some funds back from the original cost of the doll itself.

 

This topic has come up a lot on the forum over the years. Basically, if people want to take the risk of flipping a doll then that is on them.
I have purchased many LE's in the hobby, and have had to sell several of them for various reasons. I have had it happen to me where I give someone a deal to help them get a dream doll, then see it up on the mp a few weeks later saying "well it didnt work out" and the price is much more than I sold it for. Though this is a huge pet peeve of mine (and i will refuse to do business with these people in the future) aside from being firm in my prices theres really not much I can do. Often time I will list my LEs for a higher price than I paid, but thats simply because I am trying to list them at the "going rate" for that specific mould/condition. The thing is though, these flippers wouldnt even exist if people wernt willing to pay the inflated price they are asking. Its basically a self-perpetuating cyle, but everyone has a right to simply not buy the doll. So unless its in the case like i mentioned above, buying an LE to sell for more money later is something that doesnt bother me and I dont think it should be fussed about.