Commissions: How much are they REALLY worth?

I think the amount that's charged is often more proportional to the skill of the artist, than to the complexity of the work; An extremely skilled artist, used to making ballgowns, may only charge a few dollars for a simple pair of jeans (Because to her, they're easy, and she can use them as basically free advertising for he more complicated work, which she will charge more for), whereas a less skilled artist may charge more, because they take her a long time to make, even if it's just working from a set pattern.

 

I think skill and time is what makes some of the commission so expensive and of course I admire their skills, and how well the output it gives me. Then again, I will probably never in my mind would take out $200+ for a face up or maybe commission a dress for my doll...it's just too expensive for me regardless what the reason is and the fact on how I was brought up to...it's like poking my brain with a aluminum stick. For those who could afford it..I can only drool and it's not that I can't afford to have one myself...It's just that I can never put up to it..I think I'd rather use it to buy my Chemistry book or something. Perhaps when I have some kind of flow of income coming into me I'll start thinking about it, but at the mean time I'll probably try the "do it myself" kind of thing x3.

 

Several times in my BJ collecting, I've seriously considered paying $250 for a faceup commission. Now, to most people that is an insane cost for a faceup. I admit that I would have had to have saved for several months and not purchased any other doll items to afford it, but still, that artist's work, to me, was worth every penny. She no longer offers commissions as far as I know and may not even do doll repaints at all. But argh, I still want a Satoko Ohno painted doll. And I would have shelled out even more if Avvelenato had ever 1.) offered faceup commissions and 2.) offered them to foreigners. They commanded such high prices because of their skill and consistent output of high quality work.

The same thing can be said for the clothes Mio made before she had her meltdown. Her jeans are worth their price tag to me 100% because of how well made and perfectly in scale they are.

Commissions are set by what the artist feels their time and work is worth. It is up to the buyer to decide whether or not the work is worth the cost to them. There are some seamstresses on Etsy who I feel overcharge for their work. Even though I like the clothes, it's easy to just not buy from them and look elsewhere.

 

This is not really a cheap hobby and even the basic factory-made-in-Asia doll clothes from companies like Dollmore are not exactly inexpensive. Beautifully made, detailed, in-scale clothing like Dollheart are even more expensive. Lots of people make and sell doll clothes but there is a huge spectrum of skill and design. The artists who do magnificent and unique work naturally command higher prices because there is demand for their services. I think there are people who aspire to this level of respect and want the high prices for their services, but they are realistically just not there yet. I have seen them griping and wondering on this forum and others why their clothes (or faceups), although competent and well done, don't sell as well as others, or why they don't get commissions as much. I would not personally buy something that I could do, so I avoid buying simple hand-made garments and basic faceups because I can do them myself. There are plenty of people who do not overcharge for the work they do, but it takes some effort to find them. Sewing tiny garments is not as easy as one might think, so for well made basic pieces in proper scale, I expect to pay a little more than I would pay for factory-made products from a company like Dollmore. I would not even consider buying doll clothes that are not well-made. I don't think anyone is taking advantage because if their products are overpriced for what they are, they simply won't sell. The consumer has all the advantage because there are lots of items from which to choose, and plenty of factory-made clothing and factory faceups available as well.

 

I agree with the above and I think time is an important factor. For some people time is sparse and if someone else wants it, most people want to be properly compensated for it. I've heard from more than one artist that they are limited in time so they ask high prices for their work. If people want to pay their prices, then it's okay with them. If people don't want to pay, the more time they have for themselves.

In addition if an artist can do only 2 face-ups a month and each month there are 10 people who want a face-up slot, it can drive up the price. Second hand market prices can also drive up the prices an artist may charge. If a popular artist charges $100 for a face-up and the owner of the head then sells the head with a $300 mark-up, because the work of the artist is in demand, then I would not be surprised if the artist ups the price when more people start getting face-ups only to sell the face-upped heads for a big profit.

 

I agree that most of the time artists are undercharging quite a bit. At least I know how long it takes me to finish a head (and I consider myself a skilled, but mostly average artist) - I charge an average price, and counting an hourly wage from that...I get around $2-3 per hour. While it uses up my free time which is sparse in my line of work anyway...

Based on this calculation...I can perfectly understand someone who charges $300 for a nice dress, because that would actually make their time worth it.

But usually it's more of a case of availability and demand. As an artist's work gets to a certain level, to a certain quality more and more people want to have their product - one way for them to manage the increasing demand is to raise prices. This frees up more of their time (maybe even to make more detailed, elaborate products), they get more compensation and they don't have to use waitlists and order periods (which are quite time consuming to manage and keep updated). It's not unlike paying for a brand name - it's just a small brand, with one artist's name.

I admit that sometimes I'm surprised at how "much" certain artists charge - but it's mostly on the lower end, where people who have absolutely fledgeling skills are already offering lower-average (or even average) prices. What I'm even more surprised that they still get customers, when the same money could buy faaaar superior product for that customer.

On the higher end for the high prices I expect consistent, high quality - be it a simple pair of jeans or an elaborate gown from the same artist. And for that I'm quite wiling to save up the money - even if it costs as much as my doll. Actually as a faceup artist who is content to paint her own dolls - there are still certain artists whose work I admire so much that I'd be willing to pay $150-$200 for their faceups. If they didn't live so far away...but I'm not willing to risk my precious heads on the post

 

While I do agree that time, material cost, availablity, demand and skills go into the factoring of commision prices, I personally dont think $200 is worth a face up. Not unless some mods are included in that. I very much agree that I'm not paying more than I did for the head for some makeup.

As far as time goes, I think that the more skilled an artist is the less they should charge, because they have more experience and dont have to take as much time.
As an artist, it usually takes me 2 hours to draw a full line art and maby another hour to color it in. My skills are somewhat mediocre, so my art may not have as much detail, but I have less trouble with things that used to challenge me because of experience or practice.

I feel that some artist care too much about prices. It's one thing if you live off those commisions, but a completely diffrent thing to be charging so much when its more of a hobby. I'd rather charge cheaper commisions, because I really just like to know that they like it enough to pay anything.

 

By your logic, artists should never improve their skills if you think that practice, effort, and time spent honing their skills actually makes their time worth less. Which just astounds me.

 

I feel like artists are always underpaid for their skills. If everyone could do it they should but since it takes hours for one really good faceup why shouldn't the artist be paid for their work and expertise? Ppl who think that talent means artists don't work for their skills or should be paid for it because they are naturally gifted should know that artists who don't get paid don't do work because they need to eat. As a freelance designer/illustrator/animator I've run across so many ppl who say but I can just pay $100 and get a logo for the company I want to start. Those who accept that kind of money are usually students or not as skilled but ppl value money over quality. The effect this has is that even those who are highly skilled end up being paid less. Artists need to eat too. Why should we be working for minimum wage when we have more skills than the person at the checkout counter? I feel like America is in a crisis of ugly design because clients feel like they have better aesthetic judgement than the artists or that they hire their kid. Well the other reason is that for the sake of creating a safe brand look, they like to stick to old tried and true and not step out of the box too much.

Zilvmay- I don't think being more experienced necessarily means it takes you less time. In fact if you are more experienced you see more detail and more areas where you can improve. In the end a really good faceup takes a long time because of the amount of layering that goes into it. ALso don't forget the time and effort and artists takes to learn to be better. That takes months and years. A good artists should be paid at least $30 an hour. A master should be paid $50-100 an hour. As for charging cheaper commissions for the reason that ppl would like the faceup more means that ppl are only choosing according to price not to how much they like the work.

Smaug - you are charging too little for your work considering your level of experience. While it is good for ppl to be able to get a professional faceup at an affordable price, this means that if all artists lower their price to an 'affordable' price, their skills are basically seen as being worth just what they charge. I feel like a system where faceup artists charge what they should be paid but hold a lottery for one faceup every month or two that is discounted would be good. This way you aren't being paid $2-3 dollars for every hour you could be spending on yourself.

For sewing, there is pattern making. Since dolls are so small sewing skills and patternmaking is highly valued. Someone who designs a great pattern that fits your doll exactly spends time doing this. Good materials cost more. Well made tiny buttons and zippers actually cost more than large cheap ones.

The idea that something beautiful can be made just by flinging one's hand in the air is such a hard myth to dispel.

 

That's a tough question. The arts are a notoriously underpaid area. How many artists here have gotten the question "Can you draw me this?" only to get dirty looks when told it'll cost $XX?

BUT I do think some prices are a little excessive. Sometimes I see small simple items like a blouse/skirt set for like $50 that are kind of a head scratcher for me.

The $200 face-up though- boy. I have seen face-ups on Y!J that look totally worth the $200. BUT personally I wouldn't pay that much becauese I would be constantly worried about chipping something that expensive and irreplaceable.

I got a face-up by one of my favorite artists on my Heath and I admit he's hardly left his box since!

But tiny complicated clothing is time consuming! I am a novice hand sewer and I have spent HOURS making clothes for swaps. Certain sizes are easier to make than others too. Yo size is easy and consumes little fabric, but once you start layering on the lace and trims and multi-piece outfits, yeah, it takes time.

And even "factory made" clothes like Dollmores are sewn by human beings. Which accounts for the cost.

I think it just takes time to find the people you want to commission in a price range your comfortable with.

 

This is an interesting thread. I agree with all comments here. I would like to add a comment that some artists do commissions not all because of profit but also because they love doing the work. I can sew so I don't normally buy clothes, especially the simple T-shirts/shirts/pants. I also do my own simple face ups since all my dolls are normal daily life ones and don't need special character faceup. I agree that it takes time and effort to find the artist you can afford and fit your needs at the same time.

 

It's a difficult question. For face-ups if I want a basic face-up I commission someone who can do a great basic face-up but they might not have the skill do do something amazing. So far I have paied anything from 15¤ to 120$ for a face-up. It depends on what I want for the doll. I have been looking at a face-up artist that wants 150$ for just a face-up but her work is really really fantastic. Some day I might spend that. It's just difficult because basically because I'm in EU if I send my dolls head to someone outside the EU I'll have to pay customs - not only for the face-up but for the dolls head again. Unless I can get the artist to mark the value of the pacage not heigher than what I actually pay.

Basically - if I was a face-up artist I would set my prices so that I had enough to do but it wouldn't be impossible to get a spot. I may live to regret saying this but if a face-up artist can fill their waiting list within a couple of hours after opening it they are charging too little. The problem is that artists doesn't always view their own skill the same way the rest of us do. Some (a few) think they are much better than they are and some doesn't understand how good they actually are.

When it come to things like clothes for instans it's different. I actually believe that some people are having problems at the moment. Partly because the USD is so low. I mean if you have to pay your materials in Euro and charge in USD you should actually raise your prices. Sadly people tend to get offended by that.

I don't think any seamstress gets as much for an hours work as they could earn doing any other job. That's just the way it is with crafts like that. I must say I have bought a few things on Etsy that were NOT worth what I paied. I mean it really bothers me to buy something that's not nearly as well done as for instans Spampy could do it and more expensive. But I feel that most things are quite resonable priced. It's often cheaper - or at least not more expensive - than what I'd have to pay for factory made dolls clothes in a toy store. And most of the time it's a much much better quallety.

Now I don't really have any doll clothes that are really really complicated but if I wanted that I would of course be willing to pay for it. But I would never ever pay 100$ for a pair of jeans. I would even think twice to pay that for a pair of jeans for a human.

The bottom line is that we each have to decide for ourselves - is this worth so much to me? Can I get something elsewhere I'll like just as much but for less money?


Dustbunnie

 

I'm sorry if I upset anyone, I dont think I said it right.
Kim~I didn't mean to say an artist's time is worth less as their skills get better.

I think that some artist may try to drastically overcharge because some may not know how much effort really went into making it. I don't by any means think that everyone does this or that any one I know of does. (I've had people say they'd pay me fifty bucks for a sketch or doodle. This sounds crazy to me because I know I'm not that I good and that I didnt put 50$ worth of effort into it.)

Personally I have mixed feelings about commisions of any kind, I guess. I would love to acctually make some money off of my skills, but I would do it for free just because I like doing it, so I feel like im taking advantage of someone by asking money for it, esspecially if I'm asking for more money than I would spend on it.

 

Very interesting thread! Zilvmay, you have a very interesting view on commissions! I think I would feel like I'm taking advantage of someone by asking them to make me some clothes and not paying them! Especially if I didn't have the skills to make something like that in the first place! Like everyone else has said, it entirely depends on how much you value what is created and how much you are prepared to pay. But I think in general if you look at time and hourly rates, most people probably undercharge for their services.

 

Too many fail to remember that artists have to eat and pay bills like everyone else. I know to some the artistic work they do in this or any other industry is just for fun. But when you undercharge you are also undercutting those who actually make a living and feed their children as an artist.

How much is a commission worth? As many have said, as much as the market, the artist and the buyer decides it is worth, of course. It is no different than any other product or service in our western market economy. Demand drives value. But, on a more basic level you have to ask yourself...is the artist earning a living wage? Would you work for the wage you are paying that artist for that commission? If as someone above said, the artist is getting $2-3 an hour, is that really a job you would take to feed your family? if not, maybe you are underpaying the artist. And if you are a hobbyist that is undercharging less than a living wage for the work just because its fun to you, ask yourself this: what would you think of someone doing the same thing in the industry or field you make YOUR living in?

People undervalue art in general in our society, which is very sad for more reasons than I have time to go into here.

 

I've only commissioned clothes and wigs, so I'm not up on the prices being charged for faceups. However, both arts and sewing are traditionally very undervalued. And the ones doing the work, their time is worth something, as are their skills. I'd have a hard time seeing anybody as drastically overcharging considering that. Even someone with surplus spare time, that's their time, and they don't have to use it up on other people without compensation for that loss.

Faceups I want to do on my own and improve my skills, but sewing I don't expect to ever get beyond very simple projects. I fully expect to commission some talented folks to make clothing for me when I'm in the financial situation to do so -- and I fully expect to pay for the quality I'm looking for. I value my own time and don't want to spend it learning a whole bunch of skills just so I can make a few outfits, so it will be entirely worth it to pay for someone else's skills. I don't know, I might be touchy about the subject, too, because I'm a writer and writing is another skill that has become seriously undervalued. But in the end, I can't quantify exactly how much a commission is worth. I can only say it's worth a fair amount, because otherwise it's me spending possibly years doing something I don't enjoy all that much, and I'll pay to avoid that!

 

I was actually thinking about this today when I came across a face up artist whose commissions start at 125$ whose work I wanted badly. I'd personally never seen such a high price for a face up (I'm not exactly browsing commissions alot, so that may be more common than I think). But, when you break it down, it's not at all unfair. Generally, especially in our little doll world, these artists after materials are making less than minimum wage.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't exactly like to work for minimum wage. Yes, these artists are usually doing commissions because they enjoy them, and that's an important part of it all, but still, you're paying them to do something you don't want to do (or lack the skill to do) yourself. And I think whether they're "living" off of commissions or doing it in their spare time isn't a valid point. Work is work, whether you enjoy it or not. I expect to get paid somewhat fairly for my work, why would I expect to not pay someone else fairly?

I also think if someone is honestly overcharging based on skill (or lack thereof), the marketplace will let them know fairly quickly when they never get someone to commission them.

 

Hm, looks like I offended a fair few people with my post so I'm just going ahead and erasing it ^_^;; For the record, I wasn't trying to undervalue sewing, I know what goes into it, but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous to charge $200 for something very simple XD

 

Actually, from every book I've read on the subject as an artist who makes a living at what I do, and from the seminars (plural) I've attended about this very subject, every single one sets the equation at this: (materials + labor) x 2 = wholesale; retail = wholesale x2 (or more if it is appropriate to your market or you can get away with it).

Some of the fabric I have sitting around that cost upward of $300/yard would beg to differ with your analysis. As would the 2 yard dress of $60/yard fabric I worked up for a fashion doll -- smaller than an MSD. (Did I mention the over 300 hours of hand embroidery on the completed piece? Yeah. There are items that labor-and-materials-intensive out there.) Sorry, but... just no. The variables are far too broad for such simplicity. If that's your personal comfort zone and expectation of quality, that's all fine and dandy, but there are most assuredly people who have considerably higher standards or more complex ideas involving costly materials, and these customers -- thankfully -- often realize that with them comes a higher price tag.