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Crossing That Line: When Does It Become Art Theft?

May 21, 2015

    1. There may already be a thread regarding this. I tried searching many different ways but did not find a threat that touched on exactly what I wanted to ask, but if this is deemed to fit under a current thread, please see to it that it gets properly merged.

      We have all heard the old adage, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." Throughout the history of BJD's, there have been many...I wouldn't necessarily call them controversies exactly, but...instances of accusations about whether or not a company had copied the form of another. Listed below are some examples of said instances:


      [​IMG]
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      Example 1: Volks SD17 Body vs SWITCH 65cm Body - When their body was released, there was a lot of discussion about how similar SWITCH's bodies were when compared to Volks SD17.
      Example 2: Fairlyland LittleFee Body vs Dreamhigh Studio Hiro Body - This hasn't been discussed as much, but there has been some of talk about how similar the torso, legs, and feet are strikingly close to the FL LTF sculpt.
      Example 3: Volks YO-SD Body vs Soom Tiny Gem Body - Once again, body similarities were brought into question after Soom initially released their Tiny Gem line.

      As many people have said, though, "Just about every comparable SD17-sized body is in some way a direct rip-off of the Volks SD17 body," and "All tiny bodies look alike, anyways." Maybe I have been in the hobby long enough, but a lot of bodies and head sculpts do look similar to one another. I swear, sometimes when Iplehouse releases an EID head, or Soom, I find myself exclaiming, "They already did him!" (And yes I realize that the same sculptors work for the company so of course their sculpting style will come out being noticeable and similar in some aspects). But I digress.

      One of my Graphic Design professors used to find me rather amusing, because instead of doing what the majority of my other classmates were doing, which was scanning pictures from magazines, art and photography books, or using online images, I would go out with my little camera and take pictures of what I wanted to use in my projects. My professor thought this was unnecessary, because his philosophy was thus: "In art, once you take something, alter it or reshape it in some way, even slightly, it then becomes yours. It is no longer the original; it is something new. Besides, nothing is truly original." Regardless, I have never felt this way; I feel very uncomfortable using another's work, even if I did alter it to make it near-unrecognizable, and then turning around and calling it my own.

      So, this leads to my main questions:

      1) When does it become art theft? When does it cross that proverbial line from being simple mimicry or "influenced by" to being "theft"? Does it have to be an exact replica (i.e., a recast) for it to be truly considered art theft? How different does it have to be to be considered, if not "original," at least a stand-alone product?

      2) Do you agree with my professor's philosophy as to how it relates to this hobby? Is it okay for a company to take a sculpt and alter it in slight but noticeable ways and then release it as it's own product? Again, how many alterations does the company have to make for it to be acceptably theirs?

      3) A question of mere curiosity, this, but have any of you ever refused to purchase a doll or product from a company because you felt their products too closely resembled those of another's?

      4) A series of questions for the Moderators (although feel free to voice your opinions as well); Have you ever banned any dolls due to reported "similarities" between sculpts or body parts? What did it take to get you all to reach that decision? If an artist had an attitude of, "Meh. My followers and fans will continue to support me, so that other company can do as it pleases, for people will see what they really are. Let them do as they wish," would you still ban a doll if you all agreed it was a violation of the artist's rights? What if several members of the community made a complaint? Would that be enough for you to consider banning a doll?


      Once again, I am not implying anything; I am just curious of the answers. We allow a certain amount of "mimicry" in this hobby but where does one draw the line in that regard? Is it only considered theft if someone believes they are a victim? Please let me know what y'all think, and thank you for your thoughts!


      Credits: Volks SD17 body pictures by DoA User Sasurin. SWITCH body pictures taken from Comparison Heaven http://dollection.fi/heaven/, FL LTF/Dreamhigh Studiuo comparison by DoA User Samson, and Volks YO-SD/Soom Tiny Gem compairon by DoA User Armeleia. While I credit these folks for the photo references, I did not ask their permission to use them in this post, so if they need to be removed, please let me know and I will promptly remove them.
       
      #1 Zeodyte, May 21, 2015
    2. 1) Eh... I just go with the dictionary's definition. which in mine basically says "the act of stealing" and says steal is
      : to take (something that does not belong to you) in a way that is wrong or illegal
      : to take (something that you are not supposed to have) without asking for permission
      : to wrongly take and use (another person's idea, words, etc.)


      Now I suppose it's the third one there that applies to the question. Is there enough differences to tell them apart? Is it the exact same doll? If Yes then No, then yes, it's an 'original'. It may not be visually unique like an elephant to a mouse, but it is still a separate existence rather than a carbon copy. Looking at the pictures above I can tell you at least 10 differences between each doll being compared with just a cursory glance. If I can tell a doll apart without having to look for the head plate with a company name, they're different enough to me.

      2)Yes, I do. Everything that exists was made by someone else- even the grass we walk on or the rain we dance in. Whether it's nature's hands or that of man. That said...I do not condone the use of that belief as an excuse to be a lazy person. Rather than using that as a way to dismiss hard work and get by with the bare minimum I feel people should use it as motivation to make their view of what they create to be the best representative of their own views as humanly as possible. Just because it already existed doesn't mean your view of it has.

      I digress.
      Relating to dolls, if someone is going to make a product and they KNOW it's going to be similar and compared to another pre-existing work, they really ought to bust their butts to make sure people can recognize what is theirs in it. Otherwise people might just go "Why should I buy theirs when I can buy the original sculpt?" No reason to lose sales because you did just some minor tweaking to an existing sculpt. Put some effort into it and add the details that make people go "Yep, that's X's sculpt alright. It looks like W's but that's definitely an X work."

      3)Yes, for the reason above.

      4)I think the wiki has some mentions of cases like that. Don't quote me on it though, I've got fuzzy memory.
       
      #2 Temishi, May 21, 2015
    3. Oh art professors...

      Mine said: "a good artist borrows, a great artist steals".

      Obviously he wasn't talking about passing off someone else's work as yours but referring to what your professor said "there is no new idea".
      for me it perhaps is not the idea itself but rather our interpretation of that idea that make it new or unique.
       
      #3 michaelmichael, May 22, 2015
    4. Right off the bat I'm gonna say that this is starting to sound what pro-recast supporter might use in a argument. "All big BJD companies copies each other's work anyways."


      There really are no more original ideas anymore. Just variations. As you so aptly provide photo-proof for.

      DollChateau is one of the few company's out there who's not following the status-quo with their dolls.
       
      #4 Elysion gear, May 22, 2015
    5. I, too, shall being this post by being blunt. If you have nothing to contribute to this discussion outside of snide, accusatory remarks, I suggest you do as your mother told you (or at least should have) and keep them to yourself. There is a place for hate-mongering, witch-hunt attitudes and misdirected hostility. It is called Tumblr.
      As for the accusation; no, this is not a pro-recast thread. Nor is it in anyway supportive of recasting in a thinly veiled guise. If you actually take the time to not only read but comprehend the questions before immediately reaching for your pitchforks and torches while a haze of ignorance clouds your eyes, you should be able to comprehend this. I will not say these questions have nothing to do with recasting, as inevitably all questions of art theft ultimately touch upon recasting. This is more along the lines of what constitutes art theft outside of recasting.

      That being said, I have owned a Volks SD17 and had the privilege to compare it to another owner's SWITCH doll. Personally, I did prefer the SWITCH body; I liked the way the thigh joint hid the elastic, and, although it can be difficult to tell from the pictures, the muscles are more defined on the SWITCH body. However, I would be deluding myself not to see that SWITCH borrowed heavily from the Volks SD17 body. So, how much "borrowing" is acceptable before it constitutes "stealing" and becomes art theft?

      I honestly am interested in hearing from other members as to what they think in this regard. I guess I was initially afraid to say it, but I think it is a form of theft and do not agree with it; I think companies should show originality and make original sculpts rather than trying to imitate another company's work just to make it a successful product. But then that begets the question of what constitutes "originality" and when is there too much imitation so that it becomes an actual issue. I know not many people know or understand me on a personal level, but please believe me when I say I am truly curious and want a frank discussion. I'm not trying to be supportive of art theft nor do I have a hidden pro-recast agenda. I guess it just goes to show you how badly divided DoA has become on the issue; instead of participating in an earnest discussion, people would rather attack you and accuse you of being "one of them"!

      Anywho, back to the discussion. Please?
       
      #5 Zeodyte, May 22, 2015
    6. This just rubs me a little, and if I'm permitted to suggest, perhaps a little research about the companies ought to be done first before claiming that outright copying has been done?

      The bodies that Switch sells to go with their head sculpts are actually originally created by Aria Doll. When Aria Doll went out of business, they sold the bodies to Switch, who then modified the bodies to improve poseability as well as the fit and proportion with the heads that Switch makes.

      So saying that Switch borrowed from Volks isn't really right when the company that's culpable of being heavily inspired by Volk's SD17 body is actually Aria Doll.

      I just want to clarify that little piece of tidbit because as mentioned, it just rubbed me little.
       
      #6 satyrsmoon, May 22, 2015
    7. This is a subject that repeatedly comes up in this hobby as the dolls and bodies being offered sometimes appear to take inspiration or too-heavy inspiration from each other, or as several company and/or independent doll artists may seem to be moving in similar stylistic and/or structural trends. There have also already been any number of discussion threads about the general definition of, and threshold of, art theft. These have often involved anecdotal evidence from various non-hobby-involved art teachers, graphic design professors, self-proclaimed trademark experts and others regarding their personal opinions and self-asserted, generically applied, professional opinions. Such forum discussions are findable via searches. They usually are comprised of the same statements and restatements of personal opinions, and usually wind down without any consensus of opinion being achieved.

      The DOA moderation team expresses our Policy decisions and views through the existing Forum Rules, the Using DOA section, and in the Announcements section. As our decisions involve the input of the entire team, are situation-specific, and involve investigation of all available evidence - including any available statements from the parties directly involved in any accusations of copying - as well as lengthy debate and discussion, they are not appropriate for over-simplified recap-type comments in a member general-discussion thread.

      If anyone has questions about forum policy or specific-case mod decisions, they can inquire of the moderation team in the Ask the Moderators subforum.

      As much as we would like to give newer members the chance to weigh in on this recurrent discussion theme, as the OP has chosen to respond to simple differences of opinion with intensely hostile and condescending verbiage, we feel that this thread should be closed for the time being.
       
      #7 hobbywhelmed, May 22, 2015