Debate Etiquette!

All right, I'll bite. ^^

In the Debate Topic thread, Kokoryta mentions using other owner's dolls politely as illustrations in a debate. I think if this could be done politely it should be allowed with the caveat that things posted in other private forums or flocked LJ entries not be allowed to be used as illustrations. For example if we were debating gratuitous violence with dolls and I had a flocked lj post with a photo-story that would make Freddy Krueger blush, as the story was not shared in this forum it should be immaterial to the debate.

As you can see from above, I like using examples in my debate and discussion style. ^^;

 

Discussion style... to be honest, I don't know. I like to explain my side and my thoughts, and when I don't succeed, will try again. People can disagree with me, but I prefer it if they understand what I mean :P

Examples should be OK as long as people can use them respectfully. What shouldn't be in a clean debate is examples taken from personal notes, as from PMs and locked journal entries, nor personal attacks.

ETA: and just because I didn't think about it before others mentioned it: Grammar. Yes, it's important and we should all try our best. But not all are from an English speaking country, and I know for a fact that I sometimes mess up very simple words. Try to be sensitive when correcting others grammar and don't bite the foreigners for the weird sentence structure, kay?

 

What is your debate style?

Throw it out into the melting pot? Sometimes you get a pretty decent creation, and other times it's just an icky, sticky, stench. LOL

I try to be articulate, and I think I probably pepper my words with a lot of description, examples, and metaphor. I also try to address points directly, without being too personal. But at the same time, I know I'm very opinionated, and if I really and truly stand behind a point (sometimes I debate another point for the hell of it, but that's another story...) then I'm like a dog with a bone: I won't let it go.

Having said that...

What do you think is acceptable in a "clean" debate? What behaviors do you think are unacceptable?

I think people should all be able to voice their opinion without being made to feel that they are ridiculous for it. It should be a blanket presumption before we start - the idea that debating an opposing point does not mean being hated, or viewed as a person as somehow lesser. Arguments get heated, and I think it's really easy to lose sight of the distinction between the points of the argument, and the people making them.

Calling people names, obviously, should not be accepted. And as has already been stated, proper English should be expected (possibly to lesser the risk of me, and other people who like to read the Dictionary for fun, pulling our hair out in frustration).

 

I don't think I have any sort of "debate style"--I debate the way I talk, which actually might result in alot of crude language when I want to make my point more forceful, etc... Use proper English, spelling, punctuation, so on and so forth...

All debaters should feel like their opinion is valid and has value. A debate is just an argument unless everyone acknowledges everyone else without belittling them or making them feel stupid, ignorant, silly, etc. Proper English, PLEASE! And read the whole thread before just jumping in--though skimming for oft-stated information is perfectly acceptable, I think. Comments directed at anyone but yourself should be as objective as possible. You know, don't decide to put so-and-so on a pedestal while condemning whats-his/her-name to the darkest depths of infamy.

 

I think it's important to re-read what you write--I always read my potentially controversial comments out loud to myself several times before I hit "post" (not on this forum, where I haven't entered any frays yet) to see how it sounds. Also, even if I know that I don't mean something in a nasty way, the internet doesn't allow for tone of voice, so I alway use smilies to show that I'm not trying to attack people.

As an aside, I always assume someone could be offended by what I write, so I put disclaimers on anything that references a group of people or specific beliefs/opinions.

In general, you should care about other people's positions and understand that 1. they have good reasons for holding them and 2. you probably won't change their minds. So, try not to get angry when people don't agree with you Just enjoy the discussion, and hopefully we can all learn from each other!

 

What is your debate style?
I try to argue with an open mind, I think. I love debates where someone can argue in a way that makes me reconsider my opinions, or makes me defend my own, so I try to argue the same way. I try to give reasons for why I have a particular opinion so that I'm not saying "just because." I don't think you can really argue if you don't know *why* you feel a particular way.

What do you think is acceptable in a "clean" debate? What behaviors do you think are unacceptable?
I think anything that spirals into uncivilized behavior is unacceptable. A debate is polite with both (or in this case, multiple) people trying to have their opinions heard and being able to defend them. If you're not allowed to defend them (such as "that's stupid, you're wrong!") it's not a debate. It's a one-sided argument, and then it turns personal, and seems to just get uglier from there. I think the most important thing to remember is to actually listen to the other side and not take things personally. And don't *make* them personal- you can argue without making another person feel singled out.

With the internet, it's so easy to post first and regret it later. If you have to, take a step back, breathe, and really think about what you're going to post. If there's a chance someone might quote you and say you're wrong, can you defend your position? If not, you might want to rethink posting until you can. Then you're able to argue without getting defensive. There have been plenty of times when I've written out a long post, realized I don't know what I'd say if someone called me on it, and decided not to post. I'll come back to it when/if I know what I'd say if someone contradicted me specifically.

Finally, know what you're talking about. I know plenty of people in real life that turn everything into a round-and-round argument where nothing changes because they don't know anything about the subject they're talking about. They simply parrot back what they've heard instead of learning about it and making their own opinions. It's much easier to argue something in a calm, intelligent manner when you know the who, what and why of a topic.

 

Ah, you make my little debating heart beat with glee. lol

 

1. I believe you should read everything before you post. I do not like it when the person answers a question from page 5... but it was already answered on page 6. And the same answer is on page 60 because the person didn't read everything and just posted the answer to the question.

2. I think best way is, make a separate screen where you can post answers or debate a question all in one post if possible.

I don't particularly like it when the person answers question 1 from page 5, question 2 from page 10 etc. when everyone is already on page 70 and talking about something beyond those topic.

3. I think you shouldn't repeat the same answer unless it's been said within few pages and is still on the current topic to emphasis the importance. I think it's alright to answer an old question several pages back if you have a new or different answer, or something to add to it.

Hopefully this makes some sense.

 

^^ I love debate, but was unfortunate enough to go to a high school without a forensics/debate team. They had one while I was in junior high and started one up a couple of years after I graduated, but not while I was there!

 

I find wording to be the most important part of debate, personally. I always try to make sure that I state my opinions as opinions and not as facts -- i.e., "I think this is silly" vs. "This is silly". It's a very subtle detail, but I find it helps a lot in keeping some discussions civilized, as it makes it clear you know you are stating only your own opinion and recognize that other people may have different views. Just stating "this is silly" like it's a fact tends to imply that you feel it's not okay to have a different opinion, which automatically offends a lot of people. (I see this a LOT on Internet debates, and it really annoys me sometimes -- saying "I don't like x because I find it annoying" is a lot less likely to get people upset than "I don't like x because it's annoying". )

On a similar note, my Critical Thinking teacher's favorite saying was "never say never" -- as in, never make blanket statements or say things like "everybody likes it" -- not only because it'll offend people who don't like it, but because all it takes is one example of somebody not liking it and your argument immediately loses credibility. Instead it's a better idea to word your statements like, "a lot of people like it" or "everyone I've found likes it", which again makes it clear that you're allowing that not everyone thinks the same way you do.

The biggest thing that I can't stand in debating -- if you present a poor argument and get called on it, don't start attacking the other person and/or explaining why they can't argue back in order to call attention away from your argument. A greatly exaggerated example (and I sure hope we don't have any debates like this):

Person 1: I hate Doll X. It's ugly.
Person 2: You're welcome to your opinion, but your argument is riddled with fallacies.
Person 1: Yeah well...your mom is riddled with fallacies! And also you don't have a Doll X, so your opinion doesn't count! And I bet you kick puppies and steal candy from YoSDs!
Person 2:
Person 1: I win!

Sadly....a lot of people seem to think that this is how you're supposed to debate.

 

First and foremost, Respect. I come into a debate with the knowledge that if I want my opinion respected, I must respect other's opinions as well. I understand that from the get go, not everyone's going to agree with me and I'm okay with that.
Also, if something gets me angry, I stand up and walk away from the computer till I cool off. Anger has no room in a debate. Passion, sure! Be passionate about what you feel, but getting pissed off could just wreck the whole discussion. Don't hit post till you aren't angry! I've done that and have regretted the results.

I don't think those two guidelines count as a style by any means, but they're good rules of thumb that I try to follow while on message boards.

 

Whoo, perfect example of what I was refering to.
However, in regards to the violent photostory, that unfortunately wouldn't be allowed with the new rules regarding violence and linking specifically stories that are off site. At least, that is what I am assuming.


My debate style is usually one of logic. I tend to use a lot of the things I have learned as examples and will go so far as to look up and quote the appropriate authors. Sometimes, I may word things a little strongly, but I love a good debate and know the difference between challenging someone's opinion and insulting them.

As for the clean debate... that makes me think of high school.
I think so long as the debate does not get into personal insults or abuse then anything else should be allowed.

I think that the mods should let the debate run its course and not put a time limit on how long to debate a matter. As Zully said in the other thread, having an "x" time little can be stiffling and I think a little counter productive.

I think so long as people can learn the different between fact, opinion, challenging their opinion and personal insult then things will be peachy.

 

I love intellectual discussions where people are level headed.
I truly agree with the rules that you have outlined in the other thread. I am mainly against doll bashing and snide remarks against nationalities and I hope that people will have respect enough to not do these things.

 

What is your debate style?
I like to use examples and experiences that aren't too personal. I also like to respect others opinions even if I don't agree with what they are saying. Most of the time I will reread what I write before I post and if I'm getting a bit frustrated I take a step back.

What do you think is acceptable in a "clean" debate?
I don't really think there are "clean" debates since a lot of this is going to be based on perception. It's hard to know what the person really means via text without knowing them personally. I think the best way to have a good debate is to be polite and courteous to those debating and to try not to take anything to heart. Also, to remember to leave the drama at the door.

What behaviors do you think are unacceptable?
Anything that you think may offend someone besides the obvious. I think mentioning some one that is not directly involved in the debate respectfully may be ok so long as the person is aware that they are being talked about. You know, just in case they want to add something in from their point of view. I believe it's better to know about it first hand then have someone tell you about it. Less confusion that way.

 

I'm just going to answer the first question, and possibly the second once I've thought on it more.

Lately I've been changing the way I debate based on a quote by my AP Psych teacher, which I've taken to heart:

"Seek to understand before being understood."

 

# 2 is a hard question to answer...

But as far as my debate style. I like to throw out what i have on the table, and wait for someone else to pick it up. Once I have a discussion going, I like to trade thoughts back and forth until there's a resolution, or a decision to agree to disagree.

 

My debating style will probably be to just jump in and state my opinion and the reason I believe it to be true. My hope is that people will not get defensive and upset if someone has an opposing argument and that people will be polite to each other. I am interested in what other people have to say and why they feel that way and I will listen with an open mind. I might not agree with them, but I respect their right to their opinion.

 

I believe it's perfectly valid to look at page one, and add your opinion on page 70 in a debate or general discussion topic where you are expressing your own opinion with your own reasons. I think in this case, the topic under discussion is defined on page 1. I think if the debate topic is modified, that should be noted in the initial post.

Re unacceptable behavior - I would say personal insults, criticism directed at a particular person's doll (unless they asked for it), cursing, racial/religious/ethnic issues (except for elves and other non-humans), etc.

Carolyn