Fan Dolls of...Other Dolls?

Honestly? Yeah, that definitely sounds creepy to me. My answer would be an instant 'no'. My dolls are mine - they are not yours to copy.

Sorry if I came off as rude, but I do find this concept somewhat offensive. I'm very protective of my dolls and their characters.

 

Honestly I think the question itself would sound very odd or creepy.

I know that some people would feel irritated or upset--these would be the ones who are very emotionally invested in their character dolls. (Plus this hobby is all about customization--the end product dolls are often the results of much dreaming and work on the part of their owners.)

Personally, I don't know how I'd feel, but I'd probably think "more power to you." You having a doll which looks similar to my doll would not be taking anything away from me or my doll. It's flattering that someone would like my vision so much that they would like to have a piece of it, too.

I know how it feels to love the look of another person's doll, but I think asking permission would just be awkward for both of you. If you really want a doll like hers I'd say just take your time--as you customize the doll, you may find yourself making little tweaks and changes to make the doll even more "beautiful" in your eyes--in the end, you may find you have a very different doll. That said, maybe you really will end up with an exact copy of her doll and that's cool, too. This world is too big for people to not have had concurrent ideas about how to adorn mass-produced dolls; I wouldn't stress about it.

Since this is only a partially serious hypothetical question, I have to ask: how would you feel? do you think you'll approach this doll's owner about this? do you think you'll be putting this doll together for yourself?

 

They say imitation is the highest form of flattery and I can definitely understand where you're coming from. If you decided to go for it then no one can really convince you otherwise. I've personally decided on buying a sculpt based on falling in love with customized dolls of the same sculpt as well, but I've never considered recreating them exactly.

I just don't personally see the fun in that. I feel as though even if you did decide go through with it, you'd end up changing little tiny things until you ended up with another doll altogether. Which is the whole beauty of customizable dolls in the first place!

 

Personally if I wanted to make a doll look like someone else's doll I wouldn't ask permission, but I sure as hell wouldn't post pictures of her.
If I love the look of someone else's doll that much then I'll just make her for me to enjoy.
Dolls are art pieces, so having an imitation is fine, as long as you don't act like she was your original idea and creation.

It is polite to keep in mind that since many of these dolls also have backstories to them posting pictures of the imitation doll could be uncomfortable for the original doll owner. Your doll could be depicted in situations that are out of character for them. I think if you are going to imitate their creation that closely you should also respect their desires for how that character's story is told.

But I do think what others have said here may be right, too. You may start off trying to make the doll look like someone else's doll, but odds are you'll end up with a doll that's even more to your tastes as you experiment along the way.

 

There were a lot of fun looking dolls at A-kon weren't there? The two I brought had a blast hamming it up in the contests.


To answer the question though, I guess it would depend on which doll of mine someone wanted to copy. Most of my dolls I'd say go for it since I think of it as a compliment (heck I'd probably even offer to help paint a matching face up if you asked). Dolls are all about making people happy and if someone likes my doll so much that they just have to have it then I see no problems in letting them try to get the same doll.

One or two of my dolls I would say no, simply because they are way too difficult to replicate without the right skills...so my cute little Dallas themed Ada and my illustrated/carved DZ dolls would be out. The processes I used for those are extremely tricky and if you don't have a steady hand you'd probably wreck the doll trying to do it. I'd hate to see someone cry because of my dolls even if caused indirectly.

Still I guess you'll never know unless you ask. The worse that person could say is no.

 

My feelings are more in line with Selenae's. I personally would definitely say 'no way' to this sort of request. I put a lot of work and love into my dolls and I do NOT want anyone copying them completely. I actually have a disclaimer on my main deviantArt page that states: "All characters shown and images posted on this deviantArt account are © Nancy C. Quinn! All rights reserved! And may not be copied or reproduced in any way." Some of my dolls have intricate back-stories that are my own creation and all of my dolls are characters created by my own imagination and creativity and are therefore copyright to me, the creator. Copying their look, name, and story would be tantamount to art theft in my opinion.

However, I will say that if someone wanted to intentionally create a lookalike doll to one of mine, then that's okay, as long as they give me credit for the design if it's an exact replica and if they ever post photos (unintentional lookalikes are obviously okay, since some people have similar tastes). I also would request that they give their doll a different name (even if it's similar) and not copy mine. If they're merely creating a very similar look, that doesn't really bother me (especially since one of my dolls has a look that is close to what the company default was, but with a few tweaks). What would bother me, is if someone intentionally made a doll that looked exactly like mine and then gave their doll the same name. Even worse would be if they tried to steal my doll's back-story (I am a writer, so I put a lot of effort into some of my dolls' back-stories).

As for whether or not it's creepy? I don't know if creepy is the right word. I definitely think it would be extremely rude to go up to someone and say "I love your doll! Please let me copy it entirely and even use the name you gave him/her!" Saying that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" is just ridiculous (that saying is just a cop-out imo). Copying just shows a lack of original creativity on the part of the copier and can be in the realm of art theft. Sorry, but I wouldn't be flattered that you stole my original ideas, just angry, insulted, and even hurt.

Please do not do this. If you feel compelled to make a doll that looks like the original, at least have the decency to come up with your own name! And probably don't post photos of the doll (or if you do, at least say that the design of the doll is not your own).

 

Just sort of playing devil's advocate here but unless you personally created something such as the backstory, sewing the clothes, making the wig, casting the doll yourself, how can you really say it's all yours and nobody has a right to copy it? The dolls are made by the company, maybe make up and blushing is by the company too, clothes by another company, wig by someone else, what's to stop someone from buying the same doll, same clothes, or wig? The only thing I see as being 100% yours is the backstory and anything you personally made.

I have OCs for all my dolls and my first doll is based off an OC I created 8 years ago. So I definitely have a strong attachment to that particular doll. Now his sculpt can no longer be bought but lets say it could. I can't really stop someone from buying that doll, getting the company face up like I did, and buying the same or similar clothes from ebay just like I did. I don't think I'd even have a right to stop someone from naming their doll the same as mine because I don't own a name. Would it suck and would I be VERY pissed, definitely. I wouldn't say it's illegal but its morally wrong for someone to copy your idea that much without permission. And if someone cared to ask my permission, I'd say no. There can only be one ;p and he's already mine heh. Character is mine, the pieces of his clothing I've made are mine, but everything else about the doll I didn't make, another sculptor/seamstress made.

 

XYumekoX, did you read the rest of my post? I clearly stated that if someone wanted to intentionally copy just the look of my doll, then whatever, go for it (and I gave the example that one of my dolls has a close-to-default look, which obviously means she looks similar to many other dolls out there, which I have no problem with). If they are INTENTIONALLY copying my doll, then it would be preferable for them to state as much when posting photos of said doll (all they would have to do is to say that "my doll is inspired by Kelaria's doll so-and-so", which is a perfectly reasonable request if that is the truth; obviously I can't police this, and I wouldn't waste the time to do so, but it would be nice if a person who made their doll look like mine ON PURPOSE gave me a nod when posting photos of their doll). I also stated that unintentional "copies" (or dolls that look very similar to mine by mere coincidence) are obviously no big deal. Some people have similar tastes and like similar looks. That's fine and somewhat expected (especially if your doll has a close-to-default look, as I stated before). The problem I have is when someone intentionally copies my doll's look AND name and then worse is when they take it a step further and copy the back-story, which is copyright to me. The characters are a compilation of look, name, and story, and those three things combined make them completely unique to me. Going so far as to copy even just two out of three of those things would be a violation in my opinion.

 

Personally, I don't like the idea of someone taking my character design and copying it. On the other hand, some dolls cannot be replicated or are very hard to replicate. If the doll is a limited edition and has the company face up, what are the chances you will be able to even find that doll for sale, never mind copy it? If the doll has a default limited company outfit, even harder. What if the doll has a custom face up by an artist that no longer does commissions or doesn't take commissions, period. There is A LOT of hurdles to overcome when trying to copy another doll. It's also a reason I'm not really worried someone is going to just grab all my character ideas. Its hard work, sometimes not possible, and very, very expensive.

 

I would not be okay with this. All of my dolls are OCs I've created and put a lot of time into their look, backstory, personality, relationships, etc, and to have somebody come along and completely copy my characters, everything from character to doll to name....I'd be really upset. Especially since most of my dolls' faceups are by me, modding by me, wigs are bought but cut and styled by me, about half their clothes are by me.

If I had a fullset doll, or one with a factory faceup and all company clothing, I'd be a lot less upset. If it was pure coincidence, I can't really be mad. The character is more personal than the look of the doll to me, as well as unique faceups, tattoos, scars, hybrids, mods, etc.

But on topic of doll fans.....my main boys ARE pop stars (Justin is solo; Parker, Kier and Dhani are in a boyband), and if someone's (original) doll/character wanted to make fan posters or art in a photostory, I would think that was the coolest thing ever! No copying at all, just your unique doll fangirling/fanboying over my doll? Awesome!

 

I did, all I was pointing out is that we don't have any right to copyright a doll or clothes or even a name in some cases that we didn't personally create. I'm of the same opinion as you, it would be nice if the person gave a nod to the owner of the doll they were purposely copying. I was just arguing devil's advocate, what law says they have to? My point bottom line was that this is a moral issue. It would be morally wrong to copy someone's doll without permission and then not even at least give some credit to them for the idea. We can copyright our backstories; we can't really copyright the doll, the clothes, or even a name in many cases. As you said, who has the energy to police that? It comes down to doing what is morally right. If you have to ask if it's right to copy someone's doll, then it's probably not a good idea to do it.

 

I'm not copyrighting the individual pieces, I'm copyrighting the whole (the combination of elements that make a unique character). For example, I obviously would not expect to be the only person with a doll named Wren, or even a Soom MD Yrie named Wren (although I would expect that her full name: Phoenyx Wren Cloude, spelled that way, in that order, would be exclusive to me). I also would not expect to be the only one with a Soom MD Yrie who looks the way my Wren does. However, I do expect to be the only person with a Soom MD Yrie that looks the way she does, who also happens to be named Phoenyx Wren Cloud, who is a demi-Goddess from the world of Alourin (and all the rest of her back-story). I'm not copyrighting the doll, I'm copyrighting the character (which, to me, includes their whole look in addition to their name and back-story). If I just had a Soom MD Yrie, with no unique name (aka, I just called her Yrie), who had no back-story and was just a doll for the sake of being a doll, I would not dream of expecting my doll to be the only one like that out there. That would be ridiculous. I do expect that my Yrie is the only one who has the back-story that I created, which includes her look and her full name, as a whole.

As I said, I'm not going to police doll-lookalikes (we both agree that would be a waste of time ), but if someone were to copy my copyrighted creative material (namely the full essence of my character), then that WOULD be a violation of copyright, in my opinion.

I definitely agree that, if you feel like you have to ask, it's probably not okay. However, some people have no moral compass, even in this hobby (see: recasts/counterfeit dolls), so that's not always going to stop someone. Then again, I suppose that someone who would buy a recast would not be deterred by copyright (since a recast is a violation of a copyright). And yet, I post that disclaimer on my site to at least let it be known upfront that it's NOT okay and IS a violation of copyright. That way, someone who might not be morally bankrupt, just perhaps naive, knows that copying my doll characters is not okay.

 

I would rather they not but I don't think there is much I could do about it if someone decided to go for it. I don't think asking permission is creepy though. I think it is much better to ask as long as you respect the persons wishes, whatever they decide.

 

This sort of question has definitely come up before. It happens now and then and some people get upset and others don't care. Basically, if a person wants to try and re-create a doll they've seen, it's totally up to them. It's like making a character doll. Sure, you're building on someone else's creation, but it's totally legal unless you're going to make the doll to sell and/or pretend the doll IS the other person's doll and defraud/mislead people.

I say--go ahead and do it. It's NOT as easy as you'd think, since little differences in faceup, eyes, wigs, outfit can keep a doll from looking all that much like another doll.

And if you do go ahead--don't go saying that it's all your own amazing creativity that has done this. Be truthful and say that you saw this amazing doll and you are trying to re-create it and/or using another doll as inspiration for your doll's look. It's not illegal to deny someone else's creativity and inspiration, but it's kind of disgusting. If you're going to do something like that, just be open about it.

If you're just being inspired and not trying to copy down to the last detail, that is totally fine. We don't live in a vacuum: just about everyone has been influenced by other images. It's perfectly fine to see a red-haired doll with freckles and decide that you want that sculpt with red hair and freckles, too. It's a bit weird to try and copy down to the last detail, but if you can do it, it's not illegal.

We can't copyright the dolls we buy. We get ownership of the photos we take, but not the look of our dolls.

I don't mind if people see my dolls and want to copy them, anyway. (Of course, most of my dolls have default faceups, so there are other dolls out there very much like mine already!)

Plus... really, we didn't make these dolls in the first place! People can't get that protective about the look they've created when the doll itself isn't made by them!


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Actually,
--you can't copyright a character. If you draw a character, you can copyright that drawing. But people can still take the style and make it a doll, they just can't use your drawing. You can write about your character and people can't copy your exact words. But that's the extent of it.

You can't copyright a name. If you did, the first John Smith would claim it and then no one else could use it, and same for just about any name you could think of and we'd need to call ourselves "john429174656" or something stupid like that. Copyright laws exist to protect things you make, but names aren't something you make! They exist out there. If you've tried to find a unique user name, you know that just about everything, no matter how obscure and in whatever combination, is something someone else has probably already grabbed!!! But thankfully, names are not like picking a unique user-name! You may not like the answer when it comes to your precious character name, but you would reconsider if someone sued you saying they had the name first and you can't use it!

You CAN trademark a character. Basically, a company like Disney will do this for Mickey Mouse because it's part of their BRAND. They spend money to do this. Not all characters are instantly TM'd. The DRAWINGS cannot be reproduced without permission (under copyright laws). We can't copy them exactly (or near enough to be mistaken for the real thing). But since Mickey Mouse the image AND the name is part of Disney's brand and is TM'd, we can't use the name or the look of the character. That's because it could be mistaken for something Disney and could mess with their image and good name. You'd pretty much need to have something important you'd need to protect from messing with the image and good name and therefore, profits, etc., before it'd make sense Trade Marking your character. And you might discover that someone else had gotten there first... and TM'd a character that looks very much like yours, in which case, you'd be the one who had to abandon that character's name & look and try again!

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There is nothing all that original on this earth. Just get used to it. Try and defend what you absolutely NEED to defend, under the law. Doing that is difficult enough without trying to hoard every single thing you've ever thought of...! (Particularly when there's a ton of people who probably thought of the same thing years before you ever did.)

 

I still say, at least have the decency to give the doll a different name. If you have any respect at all for the doll's original owner, do not use the exact same name, but have the creativity to come up with your own (even if it's similar).

I am definitely not advocating for copyrighting the dolls themselves, but the character that my doll represents absolutely belongs to me (I have sold dolls before, so that particular doll is no longer mine, but the character the doll represented is still mine)! As a writer, my characters are very important to me. They are mine and you (general you) may not steal them, no matter how much you like them! Writers are just as protected by copyright as photographers (I am also a photographer) and any other artists.

Just because some people don't care, does not make it okay. Some people put far less creativity and effort into their doll characters than others (if they even give their dolls characters at all).

It's not a matter of what is legal, or even just what could be punishable (after all, even a lot of violations where someone else is profiting off art that is not theirs goes unpunished for whatever reason... aka recasts/counterfeit dolls; that doesn't make it any less wrong), it's about what is a violation of the original creator's rights as an artist. It's a matter of respect.

ETA: in response to your edited additions, I must say that I still have to disagree with you. As a writer, my characters are MY intellectual property, whether someone likes it or not. I created them, not you or anyone else. I put a lot of work, imagination, and effort into each one of my fully developed characters. And even the ones that are still 'in-progress' and have very little back-story are still MY creations. Not anyone else's. It is morally wrong to steal someone else's hard work and claim it for yourself. It may not be punishable by law, but that doesn't make it acceptable or okay.

ETA 2: As for there being nothing original on this earth, have you looked in a mirror? There is no one on this whole entire Earth, or in the history of this Earth, who is exactly like you. The same goes for my original characters. There are plenty of other things in this world (in nature) that are completely unique too (snowflakes, for example). No two people think exactly the same, not even identical twins! Therefore ideas may be similar, or even almost exactly the same, but unless one person is copying the other, it's highly unlikely that two creative ideas (especially when regarding artistic creations, including original characters) will be exactly the same.

 

I have different views, depending on the dolls I have:

1. I wouldn't mind a fandoll of my fandolls. Because they are based on characters from different series or books and I would really like to see more active members of that fandoms.

2. I wouldn't mind a doll which is similiar to one of my casual dolls, because they are really casual and the clothes can be found everywhere and well... you can find little Hipsters everywhere too.

3. I would mind if someone would try to copy a OOAK doll of mine. Beside the character being very special to me I have overall only 5 dolls (of 22) which are wearing completely bought clothes (my casual dolls) the other have selfmade clothes, wigs, or mods by me (or commissioned) which are very hard to copy in that way and really are part of my handwriting. I have no problem with parts being copied, like, someone saw my gore-mod Púca and decided to burn the hands to have this dripping flesh-look it would be perfectly fine. But if someone would copy the whole doll I would be really really angry because it took a long time to develop his design and to mod him/make all the parts.

I think it depends, I love my creations and I think it is just right to ask the owner if he/she is okay with you to recreate the doll. If you have the okay you can show your doll if not you will always have a bitter taste with this doll because you "have" to hide it :/
As said casual dolls are more easy to recreate and there always could be a similar doll out there even if you didn't intend to copy something, exspecially if you buy clothes from popular shops and have a currently popular sculpt. I don't know how special the doll is you had in mind but if it was a casual doll with clothes you could buy in every known shop I wouldn't see any problems with making such a doll yourself.

 

Nothing to do with your actual question, OP...

But when I read the title of your thread, my first thought was "You know what would be absolutely freakin' adorable? A pukipuki version of Raggedy Ann. Little red yarn wig, triangles painted on her cheeks, striped stockings... That would just be too cute for words."

Now I want one.

 

personally I hate if I even see another doll with the same name as mine sometimes! It's this irrational protectiveness of my characters, I suppose. I wouldn't allow anyone to copy my character unless I was wholesale selling the doll with the character attached like some odd novel deal. It's just not my cuppa.