Horns, antlers (aka male symbols) on woman dolls

Eeeeerrr, there are plenty of real live female animals with horns or antlers! The female of many species of deer and antelope, to name but a few, have antlers, they just don't have the big display/battling versions of the mature male animals. There are some older domesticated breeds of sheep and goats that I'm pretty sure both sexes have horns. A female rhino has a horn. It's not that unusual.

 

I would expect that forest gods, satyrs, demons, devils and other more-or-less-anthropomorphic creatures of fantasy aren't exactly constrained by expectations of realism anyway.

 

I was just about to say the above. Horns and antlers aren't just male symbols. It's true that in certain animal species horns or antlers are used by male animals for display and for fighting (over the right to mate with females) and then females don't have them or have very small ones. In other animal species horns are meant for defence and then both genders have them as they serve an important purpose for both genders.

Regardless of what happens in nature, a character/doll can wear animal antlers or horns as decoration (like wearing a bone necklace or a fur coat). Perhaps a female doll just looks good with male antlers meant for masculine display. So many people in this hobby don't care about gender roles or like to mix or play with them.

 

As said before, horns aren't strictly male. Yes, they are often a symbol of power, but does that mean a woman can't have them?
They're dolls. Who often live in a fantasy world. So I put the idea of it being wrong behind me as soon as I got into this hobby. Four of my dolls have horns and they are all girls.
The fun thing about this hobby is that you don't have to stick to pure physics and laws of nature.

 

Are horned or antlered woman dolls acceptable for you?

Cows have horns. Female reindeer have antlers. One in ten thousand or so whitetail does grow antlers.

Do you think that their woman-being is in conflict with these male attributes?

Why should it? Like sukeban said, it's fantasy. Horns/antlers don't normally occur in primates, which most of these dolls are representations of. If you're going for strict realism, no doll should have horns unless they're cows or sheep, or antlers unless they're deer or antelopes or elks or whatever.

Do you need some "explanation" why a woman has horns/antlers?

"Because I want her to have them" is a good enough explanation for me. If it doesn't work for you, then that's you. I don't really think it's something to get all bothered about. I don't much care for male dolls dressed up as girls, but I don't go around telling people it's a bad thing. We all have different tastes. Embrace diversity!

 

I agree that antlers/horns are not strictly male symbols. I like to see horns on both male and female dolls, as both male and females in many species in the animal kingdom have horns or antlers. And as for mythology or fantasty characters, there is definitely some freedom as for styling.

 

I don't find them to be strictly for males. Though the only dolls I have with horns are my krampuses, which are a folklore creature with horns with no specific description of the females, so I just put her in horns too. Honestly, I don't think anyone particularly needs a reason to or a reason to not put horns on their doll. Most horns use magnets so they're easily removable anyway.

 

Ooooh, can we talk about Freud now? XD While I echo the sentiments of others who have pointed out that many female animals also have horns/antlers, and that dolls can reflect what the owner desires rather than any more realistic encumbrances, Freud would probably tell you, in his mad way, that owners who give female dolls protruding appendages are endowing them with metaphorical penises and are probably experiencing penis envy. They are perhaps seeing the doll as a replacement of themselves and are thus empowering themselves by proxy.

Now, I think this is nonsense and people who put antlers etc on female dolls probably just like the look of them (and why not? They're cute!), but if you were a neurotic woman in Vienna in the late 1800s Freud would puff on his cigar, regard you sagely and tell you it's all your parents' fault and to start recording your dreams.

 

This made me laugh so hard XD

Are horned or antlered woman dolls acceptable for you?
Yes. They don't bother me in the least.

Do you think that their woman-being is in conflict with these male attributes?
Do I think when a woman wears overalls, a t-shirt and a baseball cap is in conflict? Nope. Same thing goes here; I think that as a doll owner, we have visions for our dolls, and I believe the visions should be brought to life as we envision them

Do you need some "explanation" why a woman has horns/antlers?
No. I mean, unless its some big extravagent back story, I'd throw the antlers or horns into the "just accept it basket" and move on. I think some of the female dolls with antlers are absolutely exquisite. Doll Chateau's Alberta, for example. :3

 

While I know very little about horns of animals (and I'm not going to pretend to...), I'd like to point out as well that gender bending is pretty common in this hobby. You wouldn't likely walk down the street and see a boy in a dress, (at least not in my location) yet there are male dolls all over the forum in dresses, often "girlier" than the females. Another thing I've noticed is that some of the girl dolls don't have the "feminine curves" of a woman, but more of a boyish shape. Which at first makes me think "that's wrong, it's a young boy body", but realistically there ARE adult females out there with rather immature boyish bodies. I'm bothered by the tiny childish penises often put on adult male dolls, but there ARE real males who are less endowed. Another thing that kind of bugs me is a few sculpts of mature males that appear to have "man boobs"....but some men ARE built that way. It might not be common for any of these circumstances, but they do happened. Which leads back to the horned females. As others have pointed out, while it might not be the "norm" for girls to have antlers in real life, it's not impossible.

My other point on this is that fantasy dolls are really not "realistic" in any form. NO human figure in real life should have horns...or claws...or bird feet...or a cat face...or wings...or a tail....so I don't really see horns on a female doll as any more "wrong" than a human with any of these above. most fantasy dolls are not the specific animal whose features they somewhat represent, but a mythical race created either by folklore or the owner's own imagination. They don't need to meet anyone's standards but the owner's.

 

But female caribou actually have large, impressive antlers, which may be used as weapons. For instance, here is a photo of a caribou bull (on the right) and two caribou cows (on the left and in the middle):


I suppose you could argue that their horns are slightly less ornate and slightly less solidly-built, but to me that seems a bit like splitting hairs.

Personally, my largest and most impressive horns (Soom's Shoshon antlers) are destined for a female character - one who walks the line between acting masculine and acting feminine, and who is very conflicted about the power her horns bring her. One of my male dolls (Soom's Heliot unihorn) has what I consider to be an incredibly feminine horn, and he also walks the line between masculine expectations and feminine expectations. I think adding horns to characters can be a really interesting way of playing off gender expectations.

Considering most people not in the hobby find it hard to believe that male dolls exist at all, and considering even people fairly familiar with it (like my mother, who sees all my dolls and knows all their characters) still can't reliably tell a male doll from a female doll (and assumes that all dolls are female until she sees male genitalia), I honestly think horned female dolls are the least of our worries

 

I lol'd so much! You are sooo right. Even more, Freud would call ANY TYPE OF DOLL a replacement for a penis. Just as he mentioned once or twice that a child, in a woman's eyes, is a replacement for a penis. EVERYTHING is a replaceme... You know, that. xD

Another one I agree on - an important function of the horns or antlers is just this - being a WEAPON. And not a sexual characteristic.

So yay for female dolls with antlers and horns!

 

Wonder what Freud would have made of that dream I had about dolls on an airplane going through a tunnel :p (yes, I'm joking. My dreams are weird but not like that.)

Anyway, I have to say that the original question is a total non-issue to me. I figure that horns, antlers, etc. on a doll are nothing more or less than decoration, and that unless someone invents a ball-jointed deer doll (NOT on of the anthropomorphic ones, but one that looks like a real deer like you would find in the woods) then the horned or antlered doll in question is a fantasy creature anyway. And with fantasy creatures you can do whatever the heck you want, including sticking horns or antlers on your doll's head.

 

I don't really view horns and antlers as male symbols. I know technically they are, but just, on dolls, I just don't feel they are.

I see them more as decoration. Since dolls are humanoid looking, they'd be more of a fantasy-type thing, rather than trying to be like the real animal. Since it's fantasy, anything goes.

I like horned/antlered females MORE than males, for some reason. They're more intriguing, but not because "oh look! a female horned doll", but instead "oh look! cool antlers!". Alberta from DC is a prime example. Beautiful.

 

Why, that you're secretly longing for a penis, of course. Either that or you're in love with your father. XD

Ha! Yes. Talk about obsessed - he was madder than most of the poor women he treated. Of course, while he was sucking on his cigar, he would be very quick to point out that a cigar is just a cigar and NOT A PENIS AT ALL.

 

ANYWAY, you could take this into the realm of religion/mythology too, if needed. There are many horned deities and while most are male (e.g. the Horned God, Pan, Cernunnos, of course Satan or the Devil, etc.) there are also examples of horned female deities (e.g. Egyptian cow goddesses Hathor and Bat). Definitely not as common as horned male figures, but the female examples do still exist. I could swear I have run across representations of female deities with antlers too but now I can't find any references to them, so maybe I'm getting some wires crossed in my head or something :p

 

Oh LOL. This thread makes me laugh.

Okay lemme just toss mah two cents here, as a student of art, art history, anthropology, and symbolism:

Horns are an ancient symbol of Power and Authority.

They had nothing to do with Maleness until the Victorian Era, Freud, and the New Age/Feminine Mystic movements decided they must be a phallic thing. (see above penis references. Cue eyeroll)

Let me add, with five years of extensive religious training and a lifetime of religious education, that nowhere in the Judeo-Christian Bible does it say the Devil has horns - that's a Medieval covention meant to frighten people away from Pagan deities who were portrayed horned as a symbol of Power and Authority. Heck, in some older art, Moses and other prophets are portrayed with a horned cap or hairstyle, and bishops miters used to be worn so that they resmbled horns- As a symbol of divine Power and Authority.

This is why you often see male as well as female deities anciently depicted crowned with horns or antlers.

 

If horns are supposed to stand in for penises, I'm sure that they would be more consistently phallus shaped and not come with curls flat spots, branches and splits. I strongly doubt that anyone who wanted something standing in for a penis would want it so be so misshapen.