What do you think about Hybrids?

As for bringing non-volks dolls to a Dollpa.. I don't think it has anything to do with them believing hybrids are less than other dolls. Dollpa is their sales-party, they use it to sell their own dolls. I wouldn't like it if someone brought stuff from a competing company to my shop. I can imagine Volks feels the same.

But saying 'hybrids are abominations and I can't bear to look at them', that's just silly. It's plastic. Get over it. There are more important things in life to worry about.

 

When I hear 'ethics' I think of the moral debate of right and wrong between people, other living things, perhaps even business models.

Not playing with post-consumer plastic toys.

 

It's a bit frustrating to see some folks purposefully misinterpreting the original intent positied. The member pretty clearly states that "ethical" isn't the right word -

Perhaps the "debate" could focus on the acceptability others feel towards "frankendollied" dolls? Obviously, ateliers that only produce heads are doing so with the conviction that abjd collectors are customizers who will match the head with an available body. And most companies sell dolls in pieces. When I ordered my Dollstown Elysia head and a 15boy body, Dollstown shipped me my beautiful boy as a complete doll - head attached! So that atelier is presumably perfectly at peace with the idea that collectors are going to head swap.

 

I have a suspicion that the "hybrids are abominations" sentiment is coming from the same people who think that modifying a doll in any permanent way is wrong. It's not part of the artist's divine vision, so we should all just leave well enough alone.

To which I say, as an artist: bullocks! Once somebody buys something, it's their own business how they treat it. And yes, the artist has the right to be horrified by what people do with their work, although worrying about such things seems like needless effort to me. What they don't have is the right to say, "No, you can't do that. Change it back this instant!" Well, I guess they could say it, if they really wanted to. Since they're not gods or kings, I don't expect that it would get them very far, though.

I get the feeling that in the doll fandom (now we'll have people coming out of the woodwork to protest that it's a fandom, I bet), artists are sometimes treated with an absurd level of adoration and worship. And yes, they make beautiful things, and we should appreciate them, absolutely. But I find the idea that one artist's vision is the only valid interpretation for your character to be more than a little silly.

I think I went off on a tangent, as usual

 

The idea of BJDs was to be able to customise them.
People who seriously care about a doll having a less elite/pure/sunshinecomingoutitsbutt body or head or legs or hands or whatever and then will go out of their way to tell this to someone who has a hybrid doll have too little happening in their lives and are probably just looking for conflict. Same with any percieved elitist/rude/mean/otherwise unacceptable comment directed to a person for their choice in doll.

 

Hybrids can often occur as a result of someone buying a Minimee head and then having to find and purchase a suitable body to fit the head, which often won't be a D.I.M (who are one of the makers of Minimee's) girl or boy body depending.

 

I am all for Hybrids. Sometimes hybrid dolls are even nicer than company's dolls. Yay for creativity. That's what I love about BJDs! ~Gus

 

I know I wasn't purposely misinterpreting the OPs intent, I was commenting on the use of the word 'ethics' that I've seen elsewhere, as was the OP.

Sorry if it came across that way.

 

Maybe an interesting path to pursue in this discussion might be the idea of attraction/repulsion when it comes to hybrids. They do seem to evoke knee-jerk reactions from some people, both positive and negative.

If you are attracted to them, what attracts you? If the opposite, what repulses you? Any insights as to why? Do people who feel one way or the other fall into more general categories of doll keeping (example: Mint In Box vs. Extreme Modding)?

Just a thought.

 

I can't see any issues with hybrids what so ever. These dolls are meant to be customized, and this is one more way to do that. I suppose a company could prefer to see it's heads on it's own bodies, but really, it's still saying company X makes great heads and company Y makes great bodies! So I really don't see any kind of insult there. There are many many dolls from different companies out on the market right now, and many people have dolls from a variety of different places anyway.

Also, once I buy a doll (or doll part in this case), it belongs to me and it is up to me what I want to do with it. Not up to any other collector who might have a problem or company who might have a problem (though with a few exceptions, there are many companies that offer parts separately anyway). The only important things for me is that I love the doll, and that I have done my best to make him/her into the vision that I had for that character. If that means putting a head on a different body, then so be it. I see no ethical issue about it, and aesthetics are very much in the eye of the beholder.

As others have also pointed out, there are some artists who only sell heads. My Ninodolls would still be disembodied heads I hadn't been able to hybridize them.

 

Essentially my point as well.

 

I for one love Hybrids, don't have any yet, but DD is working on a couple to save her money as well as get the look she wants. Me I would love for my DT Rhea to get a body that will allow more clothes choices as well as make her a little more unique. And with the new bodies and dolls coming out left and right who knows what I might want to try out. I think it is fine as long as the results is what owner wants, who cares what anyone else thinks.

 

If I could find a nice sexy body that I could put my NS Volks MSD head on I would SO FAST.
Also I see nothing in the universe that could be 'unethical' about switching doll bodies around.

 

I think the term *ethical* is too loaded to use in the context of the bjd hobby outside of ripping off and selling designs of any kind...so I'll just place that to the side and ignore it.

The Volks issue has been well addressed and I agree ~ it's common sense and only polite to not bring outside BJD products when attending a manufacturers event. Nothing elitist about that.

What we really have is an interesting intersection of BJD expectations:

Old school Group ~ people who like to get their hands dirty and customize their dolls from the ground up or mix n match to tweak their resins to perfection.

Newbie Group A ~ grateful for finished dolls and are willing to risk learning to customize to perfection

Newbie Group B ~ grateful for finished dolls because they just love to dress them an play with them but don't really want to get their hands too dirty

Doll collectors ~ several subgroups here, but it includes those who see the purchased doll as perfect in every way, and the original designers vision should never be tampered with.

An element in the latter group will never embrace hybridization (not neccessarily doing it themselves but accepting it's legitimacy), which is their loss for they are missing out on what raises these dolls above the rest.

 

Okay first of all, if you think is a topic is silly then don't bother replying since you clearly will have nothing useful to say. It means you're not taking this debate seriously, you're one stop away from posting a cat picture.

The word "ethics" was brought up more for lack of a better term, but on some level it does fit. You can read in many threads about people complaining about some company's bodies not being detailed enough for their taste, or that the jointing system is amateurish, or that the resin is too shiny without being MSCed. This means that companies who go to the trouble of actually making bodies that do turn out to be not so great are looked down upon whereas head-only sculptors never have to deal with that. They get praised for their pretty head, you buy a SD body since they always pick Volks' skin tones to mimic, and it's done.

These head only sculptors just use more talented artists as a stepping stone and it's a slap in the face to the artists who developed those bodies. And no, it's not flattering for someone to want to use your art to complement theirs, it means you get paid less money.

 

I don't think hybrids are any better or worse than non-hybrids. They're all just dolls.

'Hybridization' takes place in just about every customizable collectibles hobby. You'll always have people willing to take a chance and mix parts from box A with a kit from box B. As for manufacturers being concerned about losing sales, I think there are two elements to consider.

First, if they're producing a good doll body, even if a few people are choosing not to use it, others will be. Maybe someone wants to put a Dollmore head on a DoT body - but someone else might be just as likely to put a k-doll head on a dollmore body further down the road. Hybridization benefits companies with good doll bodies.
Second, if a company is producing a poor doll body (imo, an example of this would be the old DIM body), then hybridization is a good motivation to try and come up with a more functional body. If you're losing sales to people hybridizing your doll, it might be time to re-think your sculpts. We as the consumer are then more likely to have a broader range of body sculpts to choose from.
Competition is good, even with BJDs. I don't see anything wrong with hybridizing a doll whose original body either doesn't fit your own character image, or simply doesn't hold up to your standards.

Usagi, I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay a company for a terrible body sculpt, 'artistic' or not. They can either work on a better body sculpt or take the loss. It's like, I'm not going to buy a poorly-done painting just because it's 'art'.
And to insinuate that artists who sculpt heads only are 'stepping' on bigger companies is simply absurd. Artists making head sculpts are usually one-person operations who may not have the time or resources to develop a body, and even then it's a lot of money to spend on a project that's not a sure thing.

 

Now this is a fascinating argument! So, are you saying, essentially, that head-only sculptors are opportunists and that therein lies the ethical dilemma??? I could be persuaded to accept that - if I thought that the intent was there....and on that score, I'm not convinced. Certainly, it's far far easier and less expensive and time-consuming to become an atelier that produces ONLY heads - but is that being done with the intention of making a fast, easy buck? Or because part and parcel of the dollery is hybridization?

I do not agree, however, with your statement that most hybrids are done with Volks bodies - that seems really aggressive a stance. A quick peek into the BJD Picture Request subforum will show hundreds of threads in which collectors are looking for resin/proportion matches with nearly every company out there.

 

I think it's great that people can make a doll from the head they like the most put on the body they like the most if they wish. ^_^ I do believe that that's also the reason why most companies sell their dolls both assembled and in optional parts.

 

What a sweeping generalization

Head-only sculptors aren't exactly talentless! Have you actually seen Migidoll's heads? Perhaps an artist prefers to make heads because they find that doing so is more interesting and challenging for them?

Who do you think gets paid less money in the long run? Seriously, in this hobby what goes around comes around. Even if the body is sold by itself direct from the company, or arrives in a pre-arranged split, or a customer buys a full doll and swaps out the heads, the original company profits just as much as ever. Someone will always want their heads, someone else will always want the bodies - have you really seen the whole community outright reject a series of heads from one company, but gush over their bodies? I haven't. We don't agree enough on aesthetics to uniformly decide that one company's heads aren't worth the resin they're made of...so who is going to lose out?