1. It has come to the attention of forum staff that Dollshe Craft has ceased communications with dealers and customers, has failed to provide promised refunds for the excessive waits, and now has wait times surpassing 5 years in some cases. Forum staff are also concerned as there are claims being put forth that Dollshe plans to close down their doll making company. Due to the instability of the company, the lack of communication, the lack of promised refunds, and the wait times now surpassing 5 years, we strongly urge members to research the current state of this company very carefully and thoroughly before deciding to place an order. For more information please see the Dollshe waiting room. Do not assume this cannot happen to you or that your order will be different.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dollshe Craft and all dolls created by Dollshe, including any dolls created under his new or future companies, including Club Coco BJD are now banned from Den of Angels. Dollshe and the sculptor may not advertise his products on this forum. Sales may not be discussed, no news threads may be posted regarding new releases. This ban does not impact any dolls by Dollshe ordered by November 8, 2023. Any dolls ordered after November 8, 2023, regardless of the date the sculpt was released, are banned from this forum as are any dolls released under his new or future companies including but not limited to Club Coco BJD. This ban does not apply to other company dolls cast by Dollshe as part of a casting agreement between him and the actual sculpt or company and those dolls may still be discussed on the forum. Please come to Ask the Moderators if you have any questions.
    Dismiss Notice

What do you think about Hybrids?

Nov 19, 2008

    1. So wait... if someone buys a Volks body only because they need a body for their floating head, and otherwise would have NEVER bought a Volks body... Volks is getting paid less money by selling a body they would have otherwise not sold?

      I see a gap in that logic. Seems to me like Volks would be making more money by having people who don't necessarily like their headsculpts, but do like their bodies, go out and buy their bodies to use with other heads?

      ETA for Clarity:

      For example, I do not like any Volks heads. I would never buy an entire Volks doll for my collection, ever. I just don't like Volks heads! But maybe I like the head from XYZ company, and I either (a) don't like their body, or (b) XYZ company doesn't make bodies. So I buy my head from XYZ, and then I go out and buy a Volks doll for the body! Suddenly Volks has made a sale they would have NEVER made otherwise. Volks is getting MORE money from this deal, because this is the ONLY way I would have bought a doll from Volks. I don't see how that's a bad thing?
       
      • x 1
    2. What on *earth* difference does it make who puts which part with what other part? People have different tastes in builds, jointing, faces, what have you. Maybe you really want a particular face but can't swing the price for the full doll at the time. Whatever reason it is, it's a good reason as long as the results are something you enjoy. At some point the arguments devolve into the same gray area as any other "aesthetics" kind of discussion -- in which there comes a point at which no amount of discussion will be able to bridge the gap between "I like this" and "I don't like that."

      Maybe... I'm missing the point of people's objections. ? Stranger things have happened...


      Oh, and I need to add the impression that some doll makers obviously do heads because they have superb talent in that area and take joy in sculpting beautiful heads. Maybe feet or buns don't interest said sculptor. Some people can't draw hands but can draw faces. Why work on something you don't like? And by the same token...if heads-alone companies bug people... don't buy them?
       
    3. You're making a statement about the intentions of a broad group of people. What evidence do you have to support this viewpoint?

      By that logic, you should only buy eyes, wigs, faceups and clothing from the same company that produced your doll.
       
    4. With regards to Alice in Labyrinth, who currently only cast heads (although I seem to remember a rumour they were going to begin making bodies...?) it states on their page that they offer these heads to go on various bodies and can be either gender. So...

      ...Instead of seeing the companies who create heads only as opportunists, wouldn't it be more productive to see them as creative nodes in an already overwhelmingly creative hobby, keen and excited to see what their customers would like to do with their works of art...?

      My opinion in most forms of visual media -- here including ABJDs -- is that the creators are only half of the final product. The consumers are the ones who complete the product by "owning" it in their individual way, whatever that may be. They are the ones who help to complete the vision of the artist. What is a film or a comic book without an audience? Etc.

      It allows for expansion and further creativity on behalf of the original artists. Perhaps these head-only sculptors would not have had the idea to produce just heads if they had not seen what fans and hobbyists were doing themselves ... not simply to make some quick money, but to encourage the creativity and allow a hobby to grow in a new and different way...?
       
    5. Doll companies are still a business out to make money and they're still getting money in the end. If it was solely about the artistic merit, they wouldn't be a big-money business manufacturing hundreds to thousands of the same items over and over with numerous customization options. The supplier cannot control what the consumer does with the end product. They can try, but it's futile. These companies also cannot control what their customers want or what their preferences are.

      If I like a body from one company, but none of their heads, and a head from another and none of their bodies, why should I have to be forced with one or the other? Should I be worried about their feelings being hurt? Should I not be allowed to participate in this hobby because I have a hybrid? When art meets business, lines blur because you can't have both. Once your product leaves your hands, it's no longer under your control. Start forcing the hands of your customers outside your contained business world and into their homes, you lose business.

      Also, only making heads doesn't mean that the artist is 'less talented'. To me that's like saying a person who makes only hats or shoes is less talented than someone who makes a whole outfit. No, they're different things and they compliment each other. I'm not going to wear the same brand of something head to toe simply because the company would prefer it.
       
    6. I paid $250 for both of my migidoll heads and that's not factoring in the shipping.
      I'll pay $895 for the bodies (not factoring shipping) $445 for Souldoll and $450 for a Latidoll.
      When you include shipping that's over a thousand. So how in the world am I taking away money from the body sculptor and giving more to the head sculptor? In fact why do companies even sell their bodies separately?

      I for one love my hybrids and worked extremely hard to obtain them and am now working just as hard to get them the perfect bodies. I spent months on end searching through countless threads and sites looking for the perfect resin match. I am not spending less I am infact spending more. I have no clue why anyone would look down on hybrids. Some companies make beautiful heads and the bodies they come with are just bleh while it could be vise verse on other sites. The world of bjd is all about customization and if I find a beautiful sculpt but dislike the body I don't care how people or the company feel about it I am going to find the perfect body and I won't settle for less.

      I just want to start a poll and see how many people here on DoA actually own hybrids because we make up a darn good percentage of the population here.

      My final word is this: In the long run I don’t give a rat’s butt as to your opinions or thoughts on this matter, if you want to be so narrow-minded and want to stay up there on your high-horse that’s cool, but I don’t want to have anything to do with you.
       

    7. where do i even begin.

      peoples opinions that the topic is silly shouldn't bear to much ground if they should reply. their point that it's a silly topic and why it's a silly topic is just as valid.

      and you can like part of a doll without likeing the whole thing. i like a company's heads, but hate their bodies or vice versa so i shouldn't buy from them period? that to me is beyond flawed logic. and then the company looses out on a sale completely.

      and as a person sculpting just a head hands and feet to purchase a body for, i can a sure you no where in my thought process did Volks cross my mind. i despise their bodies and i find most of their faces lacking. i'm making and planned my whole sculpt around being able to fit a bobobie body. i'm making alot of other dolls and scuplting the whole doll, however for that particular doll i really wanted that body cause it matched what i wanted it for. i'm even going to have bobobie cast my head. so i highly doubt i'm th eonly one who doesn't choose volks to match.

      i don't feel it's stealing from anyone anything. if it wasnt' for hybrids, i wouldn't have bought from half the companys that i have because i don't like certian things or they don't fit my characters. and you can be a great sculptor and only have room in your apartment for so many molds, so doing just heads seems like a very wise thing to me.

      and personaly from the whole attitude in your post, i smell high horse. insulting someone who just sculpts heads when you don't know the reason behind it is beyond rude. and deeming them a lesser artist because of it. is scoff worthy. i'd love to see anyone with this attitude try to scuplt anything, see which is more time consuming and expensive, sculpting a head or a whole doll and see what you get.
       
    8. I'd think if it does not work for you, you're gonna search for something better.
      After seeing some hybrids, I concluded that it's a play on creativity; you imagine the perfect doll and want "only the best" when it comes to decals/eyes, wigs, option parts, etc. It's impressive that people are able to pull off some hybrids. So for a company to say that they don't want a specific head on other company's bodies is kinda...weird. I think it'd be good marketing. <u<
       
    9. I like companies that encourage the creativeness in the hobby and offer options. Or at the very least, recognize that people are going to split things apart. Some companies could make a lot more money...I'm thinking Soom could make major bank just selling vega and deneb heads separately. But, at least Soom lets you choose to not get the outfits, ect, in their limiteds, recognizing that their vision is not the /only/vision for the LE mold.

      I think hybrids are difficult to pull off resin matches, but successful ones are great. I generally prefer the bodies that are from thesame company as my head, but I have three dolls that are hybrids of different companies, and three that are on bodies they did not come with, but from within the same company.

      My reasons for the 3 within the company was a desire to make the dolls male, for two, and taller for the third.

      My reasons for the different company hybrids were a combo of cost, height and posability.

      Nothing wrong with it...
       
    10. Maybe it's because I'm pretty new to this, but I don't get why anyone (company or other collectors) would care whether people create hybrids or not. In the (lots) of looking around I've done lately it seems that some companies have absolutely amazing beautiful and well-sculpted bodies, and some have bodies that are less amazing. Some MUCH less amazing. While most companies have beautiful heads, they are all done in various styles. If one of the dolls I'm creating needs a certain look, and I find the perfect head, but the body is clunky and way too childlike for the character, I'm going somewhere else for the body.

      I also don't think head-only sculptors are capitalizing on others abilities - they are actually probably bringing the companies that make great bodies more business. There's no laziness in sculpting just heads - bodies aren't just artistic, there's a LOT of engineering involved to make them move and work correctly, while a head IS more purely artistic with no moving parts. I would bet that the bigger companies have artists who specialize in each. Forcing head-sculpt specialists to create bodies also might lead to just as many hybrids, if their bodies don't measure up to what's already out there.
       
    11. Nope, it's not because you're new. :) I've been doing this for about 2 1/2 years now and feel exactly the same way.
       
    12. Honestly until I started poking around in the debate section I had no idea that people were getting their panties in a twist over hybrids. That just seems silly to me. But once again, as I stated in another debate thread for me this is a hobby that revolves around having fun and enjoying my dolls. If person A doesn't think person B should enjoy their dolls unless they're 100% pure from the company then that's person A's problem. And maybe person A should take a step back from the "srs bsns" of dolls and re-evaluate why their happiness is more important than everyone else's.

      Just my thoughts on the matter.
       
    13. I... just don't get this. Why in the world would:

      Person A care that Person B has a hybrid,
      A hold B in contempt for making a hybrid doll,
      B care that A has a grudge against them that they own a hybrid?

      It's a doll. If B has a doll and is happy with it? Great! If A hates B for it... well, maybe A needs to rethink the hobby, as it is clearly just too intense.

      As for myself? I have several hybrids. I appreciate my hybrids for the reasons that they are hybrids.

      Example:

      Kethlen, my tall elf boy is a Luts Juri A on a Bobobie body. I needed him to be tall and skinny, but not 70cm. Bobobie's boy body fit the description and matched resin. Ta-da. Hybrid = happiness.

      Hanako, my steampunk girl, is a Luts Juri 05 on a Dollfie Dream 1 body. I needed her to be able to support the weight of corsetry, hooping, and holding brass and heavier objects, so hybrid she became.

      And those are just two of many.

      But seriously, how far does this bizarre line go? Do we count the El heads on girl bodies? Do we count the Lishe boys? Do we count the Volks Olivia boys, or the *gasp* changing of hands??? I may have put Angel Region hands on a Volks body because I liked the shape better. Or what if I put Soom feet on a Luts doll so my girl could stand in heels? Better yet, what about all the eyes and wigs? Do we really have to conform to putting Luts on Luts and Volks on Volks?

      Pretty soon, it's mass chaos and we're back to Barbie dolls with painted eyes, vapid smiles and bent arms that you can't do anything with.
       
    14. I'm gonna have to agree with the vast majority of everyone else that has posted and say that I don't think there is anything wrong with hybrids. I happen to prefer my dolls to have non-jointed torsos, and if I could find such a body that would fit my Shoyo proportionally and be a decent resin match, I'd have no problem hybridizing her. She's my doll and I'm going to do with her what I have to until I'm totally happy.

      Of course, those that find hybrids to be an abomination are more then welcome to their opinion and I'm actually glad when they share it. It makes it that much easier for me to know who in this hobby to stay away from.
       
      • x 1
    15. I don't like hybrids myself, because I want artistic integrity in what I buy, and a doll that is a hodgepodge of different parts just doesn't seem 'whole' to me... it's just a pile of parts strung together. No matter how much I want "Expensive Volks Head X", I'd never, NEVER put it on "Cheap Body Y" because it doesn't ring true. It's like cheating or copying; almost like owning a fake designer bag or something...

      I do own a hybrid, however... but only because the company that made the head never made bodies (RML Japan) at all. It took me many expensive tries before I found a body that matches the resin 99.9% perfectly. I had to consider body size/style, and resin type/color/translucency. It was a major effort to find a match I could live with. I can't help but feel as if my hybrid doll is a sort of bastard entity though, but I loved this head so much that it was worth it to me, and I feel I did my best to create a piece that has as much integrity as possible under the circumstances.


      Raven
       
    16. I have a slight problem with hybridization; if it's done badly. But it's just a personal preference, and I don't really give a hoot if someone on the forums has one (I'd hardly notice, anyhow!)

      But hybrids that really work can be a whole new world of wonder! Say, I want a doll, but the body it comes with doesn't suit my aesthetical tastes/isn't the right body build/doesn't pose well enough. Then there's another doll I'd like to own solely because of their awesomelistic body, but don't really find the heads to my liking, if I could combine the two it would be an absolute dream! *cough* I am actually in the process of trying to acquire the aforementioned doll, it will be my first hybrid, so I'll wait and see how much I'll actually like it.

      But in the end, it's really up to the owner how they complete their dolls, I don't think it's really anyone else's business to bother with making a fuss over it. ^^;
       
    17. Artistic integrity is in the eye of the beholder, I feel, especially in a hobby where the collectible in question is meant to be customized.

      What's your opinion on non-company faceups and handmade clothing?
       
    18. I must say that I agree with you, fully. =)

      That said, I also love your avatar!
       
      • x 1
    19. I think only those that don't really get to potential are hesitant to consider hybrids. It's what BJD's are all about...creating a doll like no other!

      I have a Doll right now that Has a KayzKids head, Jollyplus torso and arms, B&G Legs, and Volks feet. Now getting the right resin match took me as more research and time as many people put into their first doll. But there was no perfect body for my girl. She not even finished yet, as I want Dollga hands for her...and probably will switch out her arms for something else :)

      If you look, the possiblities are endless!
       
    20. It may not be flattering in their eyes, but if someone doesn't want their work to be used in a way they do not like, they shouldn't sell it.
      Besides, to sculpt a head you need to be just as talented as when you're sculpting a body. It's difficult for different reasons but for both you need skill, knowledge of anatomy, extensive practice and a good eye for aesthetics. Clay won't turn into a masterpiece by itself.
       
      • x 2