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Issue with Ashburyblu- Doll significantly not as described - RESOLVED UNHAPPILY

Jun 10, 2009

    1. I have never done this before, but I really would like some other opinions on how to proceed:
      In February Ashburyblu put up her Unoss for sale. She stated the eyes had been modded, but that the doll was in good condition. The description was quite brief, but did clearly state that the doll was indeed in good condition. With the description she had a small picture. The price was $1850, which is a lot for an Unoss, they do usually stay around the $1200-$1300 mark, but I had been looking for one for a while, so pounced on her.
      We agreed a layaway, of 5 months. I sent my first payment on February the 28th, which was a non-refundable deposit of $560, plus a requested $5 to help with the fees.
      My Second payment was on March 4th, third April 3rd, fourth April 16th, fith April 26th, my sixth on May 20th, and my seventh and final payment on May 23rd.

      Ashburyblu only sent me pics of the doll on April the 26th, which were taken with flash by the looks of things, and on my screen, everything looked to be fine. The eyes had indeed been modded, but the picture files were huge and the mod looked ok on my tiny screen where I could only view a portion of the picture at any one time. I have recently moved to a mac, so I still don't really know how to use it. In hindsight, I wish I could have checked these pics more thoroughly.

      Ashburyblu until now has been wonderful, at one point it looked like I might not be able to continue paying for Unoss, but as she could not give me a refund on any of my previous payments I worked out with her a six month layaway, which was really kind and helpful. It turned out not to be needed, but was still very much appreciated at the time.

      Now to the problems I am having. Firstly, I paid originally $40 for shipping, but then sent an additional $40 for super fast shipping. Ashburyblu used a slightly slower and cheaper method, and now owes me the $37 difference which I have yet to receive.
      The actual doll has some major issues too.
      The head and body are a total mismatch, the head is a lovely pale pinky tone, whereas the body is a creamy butter yellow. Yellowing is not something that bothers me at all, it is just a fact of age. But for the head and body to be so different a colour? I find that unacceptable on a doll described to be in good condition, and to be completely undisclosed by the seller.
      The next problem is that the head is totally filthy, and the face-up is in dreadful marked and scuffed condition. The eyelashes are all crushed and bent, this wouldn't normally be a problem, I could just pull the eyelashes out, but they appear to be glued in with superglue, again something not disclosed by the seller. The other problem with the head is that the eyes are not even the same size! I thought from the pic there might be a slight difference, but thought it might be a trick of the camera as the seller had not said anything about it, but in person one is noticeably much larger than the other. (I got a friend to help me with the photos and uploaded one to photobucket, and the face picture does show a slight difference, but not as noticeable as it is in person, and a wig covers the majority of the dirt and scuffing etc. I can post that here if required along with my own pics)
      She is also dirty, all over, and has a bit of staining on her toes from a nail polish attempt by the looks of things.
      I paid a top end price for this doll, expecting good condition, and I am really not happy.

      I sent Ashburyblu this message:
      Originally Posted by flowergirl
      Hi there,
      She arrived this afternoon, which is great. The postage actually cost $43, so I am owed the $37 difference.
      Moving onto the actual doll, I am a little disappointed.
      The face-up is in appalling condition, really dirty and scuffed, and the eyelashes are crushed, and appear to be glued in with superglue. The head also does not match the body, which has yellowed considerably in comparison to the head. The doll is generally quite dirty, but that can be remedied.
      Your photos did not show what a terrible job had been done on the eyes. One is considerably larger that the other, and they are both much larger than expected. I am ok with the yellowing, but not with the mismatching of the head and body. For $1850 I expected the doll to be in good condition, as described in your sales post.
      There is also staining on her feet from a nail polish attempt by the looks of things.
      None of the above were disclosed by you, and if they had been I would not have paid the $1850 price tag.
      I was very excited about receiving this doll, but the condition is not what I expected.
      I want either a full refund and I will return her to you, or a partial refund so I have paid a price more fitting for the condition of the doll. In the case of a partial refund, I am expecting at least $500 returned to me so that I can buy a replacement head, and as compensation for the poor condition.
      I would like a prompt response as I am understandably upset.

      She replied with:
      Quite honestly, the doll was in great condition for one who has been through several owners.
      She was not dirty, she had been sueded in some of her joints.
      Please send her back to me and I will issue a full refund when I have received her. Please send her Express mail just as I did for you and let me know the tracking information as soon as she ships.

      I replied with:
      I am sorry for my confrontational tone previously, I was just really upset.
      I am really not happy with the condition as the head and body just do not match, and as stated she has some issues with dirt and staining, especially with the head. The sueding is not the issue, and the dirt is not inside her knee joint, but on exposed areas of the doll.
      I would prefer a partial refund through paypal, which I hope we can agree on.
      The going price for an Unoss at the moment seems to be around $1200 (discounting the one in the marketplace for $3000 that has not sold for going on 8 months now I think it is), so with a $500 refund you have still gotten $1350 for her, which I think is very good. Were I to sell her I couldn't hope to get that given the condition, as I would disclose all her problems.
      I feel that I have paid over her value, and I would rather not escalate to a claim with paypal, as I would like to come to an amicable agreement.

      She replied with:
      Hi again,
      I really am very sorry that you are unhappy with the Unoss. I spoke with Paypal and they said the safest thing for all parties considered is that you open a case regarding the transaction. They will investigate and make a ruling. It will all be handled via Paypal, that way both parties are ensured there will be resolution, and that a refund/return will be handled appropriately.
      I had hoped that she would end up with someone who would love her. I'm sure that Paypal can help get this resolved.
      Again, I am very sorry.

      I then sent:
      The problem with that is I have no idea if you have the money in your account, so if it does rule in my favour then I don't know if I will even get my refund, which I feel I should get.
      I am very happy with the body, as I said the yellowing is not a problem, but the head is in an appalling state, and doesn't even match the body. Which you did not tell me about, which I think is generally not acceptable practise in the the marketplace looking at previous paging threads.
      I still have not received the shipping refund, which I would like refunded asap, as that money really is mine.
      I am sorry to have suggested a full refund now, as I am really not comfortable sending the doll back with no guarantee of getting the money I paid.
      I will open a thread on the forum to ask other people's opinions of what we should both be doing, as I have have never had a doll arrive in this sort of condition before, which of course I will close when we have reached an agreement.

      My problem now is that I do not wish to send the doll back for a full refund (I know I shouldn't have offered it as an option when I was not comfortable, but the PM was sent in haste when I was upset, and so I didn't actually check it before I sent it, and it seemed like a good idea at the time), as I have no guarantee of getting my money returned to me, and no recourse through paypal as most of my payments have gone past the 45 day mark. I have opened a dispute in paypal on $537 worth of my payments hoping for us to reach an agreement. With paypal though, because I paid in a layway style, it looks like I am asking for an entire refund for something I am keeping, but that is simply not the case.
      Does anyone have any advice here? I can escalate to a claim with paypal, and let them decide, but I would rather reach an agreement with the seller.
      At this point, I am simply not comfortable sending the doll back for the full refund, which I know is a generous and honourable offer on Ashburyblu's part, I just have no guarantees of a refund, and no way of knowing if the doll will get lost in transit or not., in which case I am out of the dream doll and the money.
      I thought a refund was most fair, as I have not received what I paid for ie. A doll in good condition.
      Ashburyblu has been absolutely wonderful to work with until now, so I really hope we can work things out, which is the aim of me opening this thread.
    2. * in the second to last line I mean that I think a partial refund would be most fair, just realised you cannot edit!
    3. Ok, I guess it is my time to tell my side of the story.

      As I was reading over this thread, Lottie mentions that I used a cheaper method? I used "Express" like she asked.... She did not specify Global Express or International Express. Most times everyone is trying to be economical about shipping so I took the cheaper one.
      I do plan to refund the "extra shipping" she sent...

      On to the Unoss....
      There was never a sales thread, it was simply a feeler that Lottie replied to me about.
      I sent pictures, and I think that $1800 is a fair price being that I paid almost the same amount for her 2 years ago.

      The Unoss is in what I believe to be great shape and I mean that honestly. I don't know how many people have owned her. I never noticed a difference in skintone, nor did I ever notice one eye was bigger than the other.
      My husband was shocked when I told him about the situation because the Unoss was one of his favorite dolls.

      Now the situation, Lottie has asked for a full refund and then changed it to $600 so she can get another head.
      I talked to Paypal and they said to NOT issue any refund until she has opened a case with them. This is the only way to ensure that I get my doll back, and that she gets her refund. There is no debate, let Paypal handle it.
      Now, I do not trust you Lottie to send me my doll back if I were to go ahead and send your money back to you.

      Also, this is not the first time you scammed me for money is it?
      Back when Flowergirl purchased my Supia Rosy, she sent me flaming messages about the fact that the entire purchase amount was printed on the customs forms. At that time, I did not realize that you could still get insurance replacement for the full amount if the doll was lost if you put a different value on the customs forms.
      Did I not offer to refund you over $100 to make up the difference as I thought that was fair? Did I refund the money? Yes, I did.

      I should have listened to that voice in my head when it said not to do this transaction. But Lottie seemed to want the Unoss so very much.

      I have no problem with doing a full or partial refund, as long as we go through Paypal and they request it. And regarding what funds I have in my bank account, Paypal will make sure that I pay the refund if deemed necessary. They will also prosecute if you do not return the doll in the same condition it was sent to you.

      I'm really sorry about all this. Is there really any other way to be fair to each party?
    4. Since you have opened a dispute on the doll, I don't see anything on the screen that will allow me to refund your $37. I will try to send the $$ to you.
    5. I am shocked you claim I scammed you for money. I PM'd you about the rosy transaction just to let you know what had happened, I did not accuse you of any wrong doing, just that I had asked you to mark a certain value on the form which you agreed to. You didn't then mark the doll down, I Pm'd you to let you know what happened and you sent me some money without me asking for it! I was polite and friendly, it was simply an update, not a request. I do not think this is fair or reasonable to bring up here, as that was an entirely separate transaction, and totally unrelated to this one. You chose how you wanted that transaction settled, I did not ask you for anything. I was very surprised and thankful when you wanted to cover my customs fees, as you well know.
      I am saddened that you do not trust me to return the doll to you, I would, but I cannot then get my money back through paypal if needed. I have to protect myself too.
      I can easily provide pictures of the unoss if needed, but the colour difference is very clear, and so is the poor condition of the head.
      I am not asking for $600 returned, I am asking for $500. $300-$400 to purchase a head in better condition, and the remainder for the yellowed condition of the body.
      I have not touched the doll in terms of changing her condition, I have simply re-strung her. The only change is the sueding in the knees was peeling so I took it out fully, which has had no effect on the doll.
      I didn't really want to go through paypal, I do not believe they handle disputes very well for either seller or buyer, and wanted us to reach a fair agreement. If you think $500 is not fair to replace the head and for the general condition, what would you suggest?
      I see you have escalated to a claim through paypal, that's fine. We will go with whatever they decide.
      I do however think that you have been rather confrontational here, for no apparent reason.
      With the shipping, I specified Global Express International I think it is called, and I sent $80 for that method to be used. I am not annoyed or anything about that, she still got here, and that isn't a problem. I am not trying to make you out to be dishonest in that regard, it was simply noted to show why I had opened a dispute for $537.
      And ok, maybe it was just a feeler thread. You still described her as being in good condition, and did not disclose any of the damages etc to me, which I feel to be dishonest. I paid the price for what I thought was a good condition doll, to get one that I feel really isn't.
      I will PM you now, as I imagine this will not help either of us.
    6. Lotti, perhaps a few pictures of the doll would help this situation. I apologize mods for posting I'm just trying to make this a little less argumentative and more factual. This way ashburyblu can see what your trying to say.
    7. Ashburyblu has refunded me the postage, so thank you very much. I did not mean for that to be a big part of the problem, I was just noting everything down.

      Ashburyblu has escalated to a claim, which automatically closes disputes when items are not as described, so I have closed the second one as it is simply there as a way to come to an agreement, paypal does not actually make a ruling in these cases.
      I cannot make you give a refund, and indeed I do not want to. I would like for you to make this transaction right, but that is totally your call, as both of us are lacking in trust at this point I think a full refund is no longer an option. I wouldn't want either of us to be in a stressful situation where we both could stand to lose a lot.
      So, I would hope that we can resolve this, to both our satisfaction, and that things will be made right.
      Here are the pics I have so far, photobucket won't let me upload more, so I will try again in a few minutes, but this is what I have for now.

      Here you can see the larger eye on the left (I can put eyes in to make this more obvious if required):

      Here are pics of the poor condition of the face-up:
      (scuffing and marking along the cheekbone, mark in the eyebrow, dirt on the horn inset)

      (scuffing and discoloration of the msc along the forehead)

      (mark in the eyeshadow, and mark on the ear lobe)

      (marks and dirt on the lips and rest of face)

      Here are examples of the resin mismatch:
      (also shows some of the face-up issues)


      I have other pics of the toe nail paint, and the dirt if needed.
      I don't think there is anything more I can do at this point. As we cannot agree on what would be best, I would like to suggest that I return the head to you for a refund, so I can get myself another one. Or if you would prefer, you could cover the cost of her being cleaned up, modded into a more acceptable state, and face-upped. I don't know if that sounds fair to you, it does to me, as the head is the real issue here. It is entirely your call, I have no recourse with paypal, and nothing more I can do. I hope I have shown all I can about my side in the transaction.
    8. It's hard to see anything in that light. Here are some pics before I sent her...






      This silliness can go on and on with people taking sides.
      The entire ordeal has been very unpleasant. If Paypal decides a refund is due, I will gladly do so.
    9. The two original pictures were....


    10. As stated, paypal does not intervene in transactions where the item received is not as described.
      I am sure a refund sounds silly to you, but spending nearly $2000 on a doll in this condition sounds silly to me. You obviously have no intention of making this right, though I have offered solutions.
      I am not sure there is anything more to be done, but it is your decision. This will be here for future potential buyers of your dolls, so they will know what good condition means to you.
      You pictures are not clear in terms of showing the poor condition of the face-up, or of the mismatch. The mismatched resin is more clear in my photos, and I can take more if anyone is curious.
      As it is, there is nothing more I can do, what happens next is up to you. As I have said, Paypal will NOT do anything here, it is your responsibility and your choice. I would say I was in the right morally, you sold me a doll with undisclosed problems, but it is entirely up to you what you do about that, if anything at all (which is looking likely).
    11. I'm sorry, I spoke to someone at Paypal who seemed to indicate that they would intervene.

      If you would like to ship her back to me, I will refund your money.

      Please let me know the tracking information when she ships. Please ship her back to me Express mail, with insurance.

      If you would like to contact Paypal to let them know that you are sending her, please do. Whatever would put your mind at ease regarding shipping her back.

      Once I have received the entire doll in the same condition she was shipped to you, I will gladly refund your money. I would love to put this unpleasantness behind me.

      If you do not want to return the entire doll to me, then let's please close this thread as it would appear we will not reach an agreeable resolution.
    12. No problem, I find paypal often says things they don't actually do, I have has some problems regarding verification in the past, and what was said on the phone was very different to what was said on the site.
      I am sorry, I feel it unfair I should simply trust you when you have clearly stated you wouldn't trust me. How is that fair? For all I know, you mightn't pay me the refund, or if she is lost then there is nothing I can do. And she arrived in a poor state, who's to say you wouldn't turn round and say she wasn't like that when you sent her? Then where would I be?
      I understand you are trying to make this right by offering a full refund, but that isn't really something I am comfortable with, not now anyway. I would also then be out of pocket for the postage to return her to you.
      I have suggested returning the head to you, but if that is something you would refuse, then I take it I can try and clean her up? Perhaps someone else will take her on, I am finding it too upsetting to want to keep the head right now. I am sure she could be lovely again, but I do not think I am the person to do it.
      I can see we aren't going to agree on this, so lets just call it quits. The information is here for people who want to see it, and I will take a few more photos for reference should anyone want too see them.
      Thank you for your time regarding this issue, I have found it deeply upsetting, but your continued communication has been helpful to me.
    13. I'm very sorry that the Unoss has fallen into such circumstances. Since you dislike the head, perhaps posting it in the Marketplace will find her a good home. I hope so. She has a sweet face. I am sure someone will love her.

      I am very sorry this had to end is such a manner.