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  2. The Mod team regrets to inform the community that Mirodoll is now banned from Den of Angels. Please view the following thread:
    Mirodoll Banned from DoA
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Rule Update Mirodoll banned from DoA

May 26, 2018

    1. The DoA Mod team regrets to inform the community that Mirodoll is now banned from Den of Angels. For a quite a few weeks, we have been examining Mirodoll's recent releases; specifically, their newest 1/4 girl body. The moderator team immediately and unanimously recognized this new body as a minimally modified copy of Iplehouse's JID girl body.

      iplehousejidoverlay.jpg

      We believe it is likely that Mirodoll 3D scanned the Iplehouse body, then modified it in a 3D modelling program, before printing it and subsequently casting it in resin. Mirodoll has shared photos of their 3D 'sculpting process' for this body on their Facebook page; however, they do not show any process of sculpting the actual joints, nor any photos of very early stages.

      Iplehouse has not yet made an official statement regarding this situation.

      Many years ago, it was strongly believed that Mirodoll had modified and recast a Dollstown 18 years girl body.

      dollstowncomparison1.jpg dollstowncomparison2.jpg

      At the time, Dollstown did not made any public statements, nor pursued any legal action, so the mod team took no action here on the forums either. We did continue to keep an eye on the company from that time on.

      At this time, we believe all of these different situations add up to Mirodoll habitually and shamelessly copying other company's dolls to modify and market as their own. They appear to follow a trend with these situations - they slim down the doll they are recasting, remove muscle/bone definition from the pieces, modify the joints slightly, and use their own heads, hands, and feet; sometimes interchanging limbs from previous bodies. It is obvious that the Mirodoll heads, hands, and feet do not fit stylistically with the rest of the body, nor do the hands and feet sit well in the sockets. There is also no logical progression in sculpting quality between any of Mirodoll's offerings. With exception of some identical bodies with height and/or bust differences, each body type is drastically different from all of the others.

      It has taken us some time to work out the best solution for Den of Angels and the community here. As such, Mirodoll is banned from DoA at this time, as are the following:
      "70cm Girl Body" (modified Dollstown 18 years body)
      "70cm Girl Body With Big Chest" (modified Dollstown 18 years body)
      "New 43cm girl body" (modified Iplehouse JID girl body)
      "28cm girl Candy" (released after the modified JID body)
      "28cm girl Polly" (released after the modified JID body)
      All future releases of new bodies and heads are banned.
      Mirodoll dolls/bodies/heads that were released prior to March 26, 2018 will still be allowed, regardless of manufacture date, as long as the mod team does not consider them to be suspect.

      Please note, the mod team is still reviewing all of Mirodoll's dolls. Considering both history and recent news in this situation, we are concerned that most of (if not all) of them may be suspect.
      We have concerns for some specifically, although we do not have definitive proof at this time.
      We will continue to research Mirodoll's other offerings. In the future, if we believe that our research proves another body to be a modified recast of something else, we reserve the right to ban any other Mirodoll bodies at that time if we so choose.

      Heads:
      Annie
      Apollo
      Bunny
      Daisy
      Hector
      Iris
      Jared
      Lele
      Lightning
      Lili
      Mika
      Orlando
      Peace
      Peng
      Rain
      Sally
      Thunder
      Wallace
      Wind
      Winnie
      Yaya

      Bodies:
      1/4 boy body
      1/4 girl body
      44cm boy body
      New 1/4 Girl Body
      60cm boy body
      60cm Boy body with Thicker Neck
      New 61cm Boy body
      60cm girl body
      60cm girl body with small chest
      62cm Girl Body
      65cm boy body
      66cm Muscular girl body
      New 66cm Boy Body
      68cm boy body
      72cm Boy Body


      --Note for dollmakers and companies--
      Please take some time to review Mirodoll's website. You may want to consider if they have modified and recast a body that you have made. If you think this is the case, please create a new thread in Ask the Moderators, so the mod team can evaluate any comparisons.
      DoA members can feel free to do so as well, if you come across something you think may be suspect, or if you have any photo comparisons of your own to share.

      The mod team is willing to rescind Mirodoll's ban in the future, as long as certain criteria are met, of which we have informed Mirodoll.

      This is a unprecedented situation. Mirodoll has been very popular for many years now. Their affordability and custom resin colors have made them into one of the most-recommended companies for hybriding purposes. However, we believe their low prices are a direct result of them stealing the work other companies have done. With the recent trademark situation, the mod team feels that we cannot allow Mirodoll to continue on as they have been with no consequences.

      For people who own any of the now-banned bodies, we will ask that you please refrain from sharing them here in the future. If you have posted them here in the past, we will not search out these posts and photos specifically, but we will remove them should we come across them, or if they are reported. No one will receive any disciplinary measures for having posted these bodies before.
      We realize that this will put many people into a difficult position. It is not our intention to punish people who have purchased from Mirodoll in the past, but we do not see any alternatives at this time.

      For anyone interested in discussing this situation, please do so in this thread. Discussions about banned companies and recasts are not allowed elsewhere on the forums.
      Discussion about non-banned bodies and heads may continue in the following discussion threads:
      1/3: 2018 Mirodoll 1/3 discussion thread
      1/4: 2018 Mirodoll 1/4 Discussion thread

      If you have any questions about this situation, or concerns that you would like to address with the mod team, please create a new thread in Ask the Moderators. We will be happy to help you there.
       
      #1 DoA Mod Squad, May 26, 2018
      Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018
      • x 74
    2. I know Candy and Polly are already banned by proxy but I noticed their body looks like an exaggerated Iplehouse B.I.D body.
      This sucks, I really hoped when I started to see some more good company photos from Mirodoll that we'd get another reputable budget company like Resinsoul...
       
      • x 14
    3. This is extremely disappointing. I own a lot of Mirodolls, so my heart is broken a little.

      In the interest of clarity, I am not currently using my newest 1/4 body. I wouldn't mind sending it to somebody who has a JID body for comparisons. This would help clear up the issue.
       
      #3 ella_tron, May 29, 2018
      Last edited: May 29, 2018
      • x 10
    4. I think we're gonna need conclusive proof beyond just photos. If someone has both to compare that'd be way more helpful i think. A real shame if true though, as Miro are often the go to company suggested for newbies. Have they themselves been approached for comment? In the interest of fairness it could be worth allowing them to present evidence if they believe they're being falsely accused or indeed admission if it turns out there has been some iffy dealings going on. You have to wonder though, why? What did they have to gain from doing so? They already had regular customers despite their bodies flaws, you'd think it'd have been more sensible to just you know, try to improve rather than copy/paste?
      All very odd.

      I heard they had a new sculptor, is it possible that's where the problem lies and the high ups were oblivious? Or have they gotten so desperate they just didn't care about ethics? Either way, this needs to be investigated further.
       
      • x 37
    5. Do I need to delete in dolls my mirodoll body? Hope they really aren't doing this.
       
      • x 1
    6. If you have a hybrid that is currently on a non-banned body, can you still discuss the doll? Also, those on the okay list may still be discussed?
       
      • x 1
    7. Can the moderators also please clarify what the status is for dolls made by artists who use Mirodoll as a casting service? There are a number of independent doll artists who don't do their own casting and a lot of them have been using Mirodoll as a casting service. Are dolls designed by other people but cast by Mirodoll included in the post March 2018 ban?
       
      • x 20
    8. I was wondering the same thing? I don't think mine is one of the banned bodies but this is all very disappointing. I wish that things like this didn't need to happen...
       
      • x 1
    9. @moderators please be aware, if it has slipped the mods minds, there is still a mirodoll banner ad running!
       
      • x 8
    10. My concern here is of another nature, though.

      Do mods have the new Mirodoll body in question and the Iplehouse JID body for a physical inspection and comparison? Did Mirodoll get contacted and confronted about this before making this decision? Did they refuse to present evidence? Did they ignore emails or any other methods of communication? Did they fail to prove or defend themselves from these allegations?

      Is this decision made solely based on the alarming likeness between the IH JID body and the new Mirodoll MSD body? Because we have seen a lot of bodies with freakishly "identical" quality to other dolls and I don't see decisions like this being made about them.

      Another point to make. The cost of producing dolls is China isn't the same as it is in Japan/Korea. (I'm speaking of ABJD here, not BJDs from other countries and independent doll makers.) Mirodoll doesn't hire seamstresses to create full sets, doesn't seem to use a professional photography team or use elaborate dioramas/sets/props, or hire “HQ” face-up artists for their promos. I have seen some ridiculously talented BJD face-up artists from China who charge 1/3 the price of face-up artists on our side of the globe, so even if they had more "elaborate face-up" offerings, that wouldn't necessarily mean the price would go up. All of these factors help in reducing the cost of operations, I think.

      To say that the lower cost of their dolls could potentially be because they copy other people's creations and tweak it to release under their brand is counterproductive as it might give new collectors the impression that all affordable dolls might cost less for similar reasons.

      I think banning of a brand should only happen when there is no shadow of a doubt the company is blatantly recasting/tweaking an existing doll/part. From the post, I do not feel this is the case. It's important that we as a community make decisions to protect our artists and hobby, but we can't start making such decisions on assumptions/photographs alone. If the new Mirodoll body has been analyzed and proven a modified copy of IH JID without a doubt, then by all means, this is an understandable decision. As it stands, we can probably name quite a few companies with similar bodies/parts to others that are considered on-topic still. It's important that we're careful and fair to all companies.

      I hope this issue with Mirodoll can be cleared up — whether it'll be in favor of them or not. I also hope Iplehouse can release a statement or perhaps even analyze the Mirodoll body themselves to shed light into this situation as well.
       
      #10 dollsoflace, May 29, 2018
      Last edited: May 29, 2018
      • x 115
    11. Also, a quick note: does the Claudette dolls and her sisters still remain on topic? They were made by an artist but Mirodoll did their casting. :( I'd hate for this to backlash on Arwen.
       
      • x 6
    12. Honestly, in all these years almost all their attempts to improve resulted in hideously misshapen bodies and faces. For example, their "66 cm Mascular girl body" or one of their 70 cm male bodies, now removed from their site, clearly based on Dollshe Rhythmos body. Also, still the same terrible elbow and wrist joints. I don't think they have any potential to improve, seeing what they did to Iple B.I.D body. Seriously, they were using such a well-sculpted body as a base and remade it into what?..
       
      • x 9
    13. Are XM Dolls still allowed? I know they're currently on break, but they're supposed to be returning at some point and their dolls were usually posted in the Miro threads...
       
      • x 6
    14. The 66cm Mascular girl body was actually sculpted by Sicktress, she made the torso and Miro provided the arms and legs. I believe they are also the company that cast her Deesse head sculpt. If that body is one of the accused copying then one would need to get Sicktress involved as well, however I remember her sculpting process over many months on instagram before sending the torso to Mirodoll for production. (Mentioned from an above comment not based on the mod post, since this body is deemed allowed on the forum)

      I am interested in seeing real life side by sides though, hopefully one or more people can get the doll bodies in question together for comparison rather than overlaying images, or at least more images as was done when Pidgindoll's thread was made (inspecting joint aesthetic as well as photographs of inside the joints taken from the same angles).

      One case that would be a good indicator is the inside of the thighs- if it is a modified scan perhaps there is still sign of the iplehouse stringing method in the engineering of the hip sockets, even though Mirodoll has visible drilling channels into the legs.
       
      #14 Cuteasadoll, May 29, 2018
      Last edited: May 29, 2018
      • x 21
    15. OK wow. Yeah, so much wrong here. One, yes, Sicktress handmade that body. I know because I prompted her to do so and watched her progress. She made it to be usable with the 66cm lean boy limbs on purpose. I do not find it hideously deformed, that is opinion and only yours, though perhaps shared by others. That is just mean spirited. As for their 70cm male, I'm glad they removed it as I have begged them for years to work on it- the engineering was poor and it was based OVER the 70cm girl body as suggested by another customer (which was not me). Hopefully it comes back improved. (Edit: just read the comment that it was 'clearly base on the Rythmos body'. Sorry but *LOLOLOLOL* If that is true, wow, Miro SUCKS at copying. I don't believe that's true because just LOOK at it!... well, I let the comparison speak for itself. Maybe they passed the body through a room that once contained a Rythmos body, but I think it all stops there.)

      I've noticed the 5stardoll new super star 70cm girl also looks a heck of a lot like the DT 18yrs girl, moreso than Miro's version, but I would not say they copied. Understand, please, there are only so many configurations a human body can take. There are a 100 forms of martial arts and they all start repeating eventually. Why? Because they're copying each other? No, because the human body can only do so much. Tall dolls, especially female forms, are often made lean to compensate for the weight of the extra resin needed and because tall and lean is a popular aesthetic. Now, I understand the 70cm body is not on the block here, but I've seen quite a few bodies that are similar to many others because you can only do so much with the form and keep it recognizable. (We don't all want Doll Chateau aesthetics.)

      Similar? yes, the new MSD body IS similar (though if they were going to 'upgrade', I'd like to think they'd go in the direction of better poseability than IH) and so are many others. Cannons fired like this should be based on a lot more proof and not feeling. "However, we believe their low prices are a direct result of them stealing the work other companies have done. With the recent trademark situation, the mod team feels that we cannot allow Mirodoll to continue on as they have been with no consequences." Wow. That's harsh. They're cheap so they must be copying? Recasts are actually more expensive than Miros. So to continue as they have with no consequences... this translates to "we think they did a no-no but they're cheap, so we'll punish them for being cheap, because it must mean they copied." Flawed logic, my friends.

      Please use facts only before you defame a company like this. If it happens to be true, then your conscience is clear; if it ends up being false, how do they regain public trust? You would have defamed them, marred their name for years to come and it will stick. You know it will. I've seen it happen before. That's libel- in America and probably other countries you could be sued for that and loss of income. Would Miro have any recourse? No, they wouldn't. But this is serious- please don't go about it this way, get the proof first. Then I'll comply with your wishes. But this? This is not right on many levels.
       
      #15 chalyss, May 29, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 89
    16. Unfortunately it isnt up to us what the mods choose to do and what they allow to happen on the site. They have made that very clear.
       
      • x 11
    17. I'd like to know as well; the mirodoll body I use for a hybrid isn't on the banned list, but I also use that same doll as my profile picture so if I need to change it I'd really like to know.

      Even if not all the stuff from Mirodoll is banned, this situation probably means all of mirodoll's sculpts are going to be under heavy scrutiny, so I'm wondering if that's gonna change in the future or not. It's really very unfortunate; It's one the main companies I see encouraged for people new to the hobby (besides Resinsoul of course) or for a cheap hybrid option, so this is going to mess with an awful lot of people.
       
      • x 3
    18. Basically, if Miro can provide the original 3d models and someone can do a proper in person comparison, we should have a pretty good set of evidence right?

      Personally a few of those comparison pics I see too much different and only superficial similarities but photos can be deceptive either way. We need the two bodies literally side by side to be compared and we also need to hear what miro have to say.

      I also have this worry that they may have hired someone in good faith who's now screwed them over, because it seems a pretty strange change of their usual technique or indeed their attitude on facebook where they constantly ask for feedback and suggestions on jointing. Why make crap joints if you can just 3d copy and print better ones? Why make wierd boobs if you can just scan some decent ones? Seems like a pretty strange choice to make. I mean, you can 3d scan something, why not take the good elements?
       
      • x 23
    19. It has happened before (Fairyland, actually, and probably more) where sculptors were hired and then stole from other sources without the knowledge of the company. That particular sculptor was dismissed, a public apology given by Fairyland and they engaged the real artist instead. (This was for the steampunk weapons.) So it is possible- I just want Miro treated fairly and clearly they are being treated with a bias due to their low cost. This surprises me. I'd like to see the -innocent until PROVEN guilty- thing happen before destroying a reputation. (Edited company name to be correct)
       
      #19 chalyss, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 39
    20. (Actually Harucasting did the Deesse head. And I find the 66 mascular body a lot of fun to pose and play with). At least DOA is trying to be precise in what they are not allowing, but I would like to have Mirodoll have a chance to "show their work" on the current controversial body.
       
      • x 18