1. Become a DoA Archivist!
    Volunteers Needed!
    Dismiss Notice

Resolved Paging strawberryfrog

Jan 16, 2018

    1. Sorry.
      I hoped to avoid doing this in the first place but I don't know how to proceed in any other way.
      This is nothing personal I just want to have some room to end this in a fair,open and constructive way.


      My current problem is as followed:
      I bought a Soom Prince Charming from strawberryfrog and his condition isn't as described. She messaged me on December the 29th as a reply to my WTB thread which can be found here:

      https://denofangels.com/threads/soo...egs-or-body-horse-legs-cream-white-cw.686326/

      He was offered as

      As I was looking since 2015 for this doll of course I was highly interested in buying him.
      She took pictures of the doll on the same day and it looked fine, but the lighting didn't reveal the color changes he has on his body (NOW, knowing where they are, I can see them even on the pictures she shared).
      She was very kind and even told me exactly who has been working on his tattoo and blushing.
      655€ was his original price in this version.
      I agreed on the offered price 650 € plus shipping and paid in two payments.
      300 € on the 29th December and 350 € on 4th January.

      On the 4th January she messaged me again:

      I was a bit concerened about this but I agreed. As I wrote in my WTB I was already considering buying a Charming with yellowing/damage if it must be so one yellowed arm didn't sound too bad.
      Also she described it as 'a bit'. A bit meaning a small piece, part, or quantity of something I automatically asumed it would mean 'a little yellowing'.

      I have quite a few Soom dolls and parts in cream white at home. Benmore and Dolomi being the old more creamy / ivory color and Isha being the new more paper white adding a few horn parts from different dolls and release dates. Both versions of white are called 'cream white' by Soom but changed being more creamy or more paper on different releases. I consider myself being quite experienced in regards of Soom, especially on the newer dolls 2015 ~.

      He arrived on the 11th January and I immediately noticed it wasn't just a littlte yellowing and it wasn't just his one arm.
      Basically his whole left side is yellowed unevenly. Including his face, neck, chest, complete arm, wristpiece and hand. His torso, his thigh, his horse legs. His right side has some veeery faint yellowing too but this looks like the expected natural process to me.
      The yellowing looks like damage done by prolonged exposure to sunlight from one side, since for example on his horse parts it stops right where the joint covers the insides from light. Same for the shoulder and so on. Also the side of his parts facing outwards (getting hit by the light) are heavily yellowed while the side facing inwards (being covered by itself staying in the shadow) of the exact same resin part is nearly free from any yellowing. (Left leg facing outwards has the worst yellowing and right leg has it's bad side on the side facing inwards ( to the left side) also speaking for sunlight from mostly one direction.

      I feel kind of cheated now. The amount of yellowing is way worse than described and it's not only his arm as I was told.

      I messaged strawberryfrog on the 11th January and told her about the yellowing and she replied stating the following:

      Well, I thought he was kept away from sunlight ?
      I removed the blushing and face up too get a hold on the exact state the doll is in.

      The cleaning took quite a while because it felt like the doll wasn't sealed before applying the bright red paint to his back and the black paint on his hooves. I had to remove the whole paintjob with magic sponge, toothpicks and pure water because the color would stain everything when getting in contact with alcohol.
      It took me half a day for just the hoofparts (not the legs, just the hooves).

      As I felt like her reply was kind of unsatisfying I decided to write her again in a more serious manner so that she could understand that I am not happy at all. I mean if she noticed the yellow on the arm, how does it come that there is no word left about the leg, neck that is almost the same color ?
      I showed her pictures of the leg and told her that she should consider a partial refund because the doll is not in the condition she described. I am especially angry about the unevenly yellowed face because this lowers the dolls value extremely and I can't imagine how badly this doll will age. There is a high risk for his further color changes being proportional accelerated.
      With those problems it is very unlikely to get money even close to the amount that I paid if I ever feel like selling him.

      I told her that the damage to him is quite extreme for a doll this young (he is made January 2015), that the deyellowing most likely can only done by sanding him completely and that he feels like a restoration project rather than something else. I have to invest hours and hours of work ( if it even is possible to do ) just to get him to the condition I thought he would be in already because he was described as something else. And even if I do it it means that I need to change the whole doll slightly which is a real bummer and lowers his value even more.

      I promised her to not call her out to others and that I want to solve this peacefully because all I wanted was a regular purchase.
       
    2. She answered on the 14th and offered me a 40$ refund or to send back the doll to her BUT with a reduced price of 400$ that she will refund me.
      So basically she is trying to tell me that the blushing and face up removal lowers the dolls price by 250$ wether the uneven yellowing which is actually considered a serious and unremovable damage to the doll itself only lowers the value by 40$(50$ if you consider the shipping she paid to compensate for the 'bit of yellowing on one arm).
      It's not the problem that she reduced the price for me removing the paintjob it's the glaring imbalance between those two numbers.

      On top of that she suddenly is trying to tell me it must be an Error in the resin.

      That my pictures are bad and not reflecting the reality.

      That I was making a mistake by comparing the color of my Soom dolls with hers. (When in reality I don't need any other doll to compare his color since I can simply compare the color of his unyellowed parts with the yellowed ones. )

      That the fact 'she made a good price for him as in my WTB I wrote I would pay more (?!!)' has anything to do with what is going on now.

      That he never was paperwhite.
      (Found this old picture of him that she posted, he looks pretty white to me also pretty even...)
      https://denofangels.com/threads/my-new-doll-2015.655588/page-3#post-11322314
      [​IMG]


      Here are some pictures that clearly show how yellow he is and where.
      ______________________________________________________________________________________


      Here you can see his original color (Headcap and inside the joint)
      vs the yellowing.
      I removed some of the yellowing (the white spot you see in the center to reveal that this was in fact his original color !!! This is much work and it's very likely that the yellow comes back quickly because of how the yellowing works.)
      [​IMG]

      The yellow on his whole body is orientated to the left side. See the difference between the color of the resin where the blushing has covered it.
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
      You can still see the silhouette of the tattoo as the yellow frames it ...
      [​IMG]

      You can see the color change to his face. Its yellow (face), white (neck covered from light), yellow (neck left side, most likely prolonged light exposure)
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      I am not going to send him back on a 250$ loss. I am asking for a partial refund of 100$.
       
      • x 28
    3. @strawberryfrog was last on the forum today (Jan 17) and is now being paged.
       
    4. I'm sorry to see it has come to this.
      I'll try to communicate my standpoint of view, how things progressed from the start to the current situation.



      On Dec 29th I contacted Prince Whitemare about her WTB for a Soom Prince Charming from Soom in cream white, to see if she was still looking for him, including a price offer, as that was one of the dolls I decided to rehome for space and extra funds. I was going to put him on the marketplace anyway, but thought ‚maybe Prince Whitemare is interested‘.

      She was, which was why I took him out for pictures and sent them her way.
      This is the link I provided: Dropbox - Prince Charming
      (You can see from the name of the pics, that they were taken on the very day we got into contact, in normal daylight. - The certificate and buying page were added a day later. Please note, I removed the buying page containing private details, since this is going public now.)

      Afterwards she was very enthusiastic as we cleared some of her questions (like about the materials used on him for face-up, tattoo and blushing - I asked the artist, who did the whole make-over, to make sure I was passing on correct information and even provided her with the artist's name, so she could contact him/look him up in case she needed more specific information or was interested in his other work).
      Then she was ready to commit to the purchase with a layaway payment (first part on Dec 30th), which she finished earlier than originally agreed, to get him faster (Jan 4th).

      I went to make him shipping ready on the same day, when I noticed for the first time, that his left hand/lower arm were a darker shade, so I informed her that he has a bit of yellowing on that side and that I'd gift her shipping (including tracking and insurance) for the overlook on my side.
      She merely commented that she hoped it wasn't to server, which to me it isn't/wasn't (See 2nd picture of the dropbox link for the color. It is noticable if you know what to look for, but not that bad.)
      So I finished packing him up and planned to ship him out on the next day (Friday 5th), but ended up having to work longer. Saturday was a holiday and Sunday the post offices are closed, so I shipped him out on Monday, 8th January, and provided Prince Whitemare with a tracking number.


      On Wednesday, 10th Jan, she let me know that he arrived savely and had no damage from shipping, then claimed that the yellowing was 'quite noticable' and not just on his arm, but pretty much all over him and that he must have been out in sunlight and that the other Soom doll she has in cream white has a different color.

      She then wrote:

      I read this on Thursday, 11th and was rather surprised about the supposed yellowing all over, as Prince Charming has spent most of his existence ever since I got him in his box, in a cupboard with most of my other dolls. The only exceptions were when he was with the artist doing his face-up, bodyblushing, hooves and tattoo, and when I had friends over, that wanted to take a look (which was about a handful of times and not longer than half an hour max and even in that time he wasn't directly exposed to sunlight).

      It was around midday and I hadn't gotten any pictures yet, so I pondered about the difference in oppinion about the yellowing and figured I'd at least text her back, so she'd know I'd seen the message and was awaiting pics, to see the supposed damage myself.

      I wrote
      in reference to the pictures I took, figuring she hadn't been able to see the yellowing on the arm on the picture as well as I did and thus was surprised and felt the yellowing way worse on an emotional level, that it actually was, since it was her holy grail doll. (And that’s allright, since we all have that ‚one‘ grail doll and are quite sensitive about matters concerning it.) I added the 'out of the box part' to empathize that he was ONLY out of the box for that - and the artist - as mentioned above.

      I was about to head out for shopping, so I speed-typed it and apparently worded it poorly.

      I had not received any pictures then and talked it over with my girlfriend, who had owned several Soom dolls in cream white skin before and still owns one.
      She was the one that pointed out to me, that perhaps Prince Whitemare is surprised by the darker cream white Prince Charming came in, especially since she already owns a Soom cream white doll. In comparisson, my Prince Charming likely looks not as pure, as from the start he'd been darker than my gf's Heliot, who is from the original release and has a few years on his resin.

      I added this info, in case that might solve the 'yellowing issue'.


      That day (still Jan 11th), she contacted me again late in the night, having a whole change in attidude and stating a much as feeling 'totally cheated'.
      She goes on in a lenght description about her feeling about Prince Charming, how he was not what she expected, admits to base the 'yellowing' claims on her comparisson to the cream white dolls she already has at home and goes again to claim that he 'must have been exposed to light for quite some time' - and that some leg is nearly 'banana' colored.

      BUT that she loves him regardless and wants to keep him, thought it will be very much work.
      Along with the message she sent one picture of a leg to show 'proof of yellowing'.
      The leg was taken appart from the rest, placed on white paper and ... obviously had been 'worked on', as the hoove-hair blushing was already missing and she'd obviously started working to remove the sealant on the rest of the leg.

      She sent another pic on Friday morning (Jan 12th), of two hands, showing different colors.

      Another message a few minutes later, where she again claims there is more yellowing all over his torso.
      She admits to having already removed the tattoo, claims it left stains, but that that is ok, because she knew the risk of that happening. But that there are now stains mixed with white and yellow pattern, because of yellowing.

      I read all of this on Sunday afternoon (Jan 14th), feeling rather stunned in several ways.

      Again I talked the situation over with my gf, who helped me formulate a response, showing my side of view, which Prince Whitemare has quoted in her 2nd post in this thread.
      I understood that Prince Whitemare was not happy with Prince Charming one way or another, but wanted to keep her grail doll. I know what he did look like when I packed him up and shipped him out and her pictures didn't match that at all. I still believe her camera's settings are set up to high contrast and color saturation, making the cream white more yellow, likely some auto-correct thing or settings from a prior shoot. I also believe, the pictures turning out the way they did, sent her in an emotional rollercoaster and 'experiencing' the colors to be way worse than they are.

      I did however also feel for her, as it seemed she was mourning her Prince Charming not to be the way she expected him to be. I did want her to enjoy her grail doll, so I asked my gf to aid me to checking out prices for tools usually used for cleaning (Mr. Thinner or Newton Brush cleaner, different/recommended sanding papers and so on), as I had not had need for those kind of tools so far and thus no knowledge in this matter. Doing a rough estimate of one bottle and several sanding things, along with shipping, we came to the conclusion that 40 EUR (currently around 50 $) were more than a fair offer, hence my response on that afternoon (still Jan 14th), which Prince Whitemare put into her 2nd post.
      Thought I see now that I accidentally put 40$ instead of 40 EUR there, likely because most prices we looked up were in $. Thought I doubt the 10 $ difference will make a difference to Prince Whitemare.

      I didn't hear back from Prince Whitemare since then.
      When I went to check if she had gotten around to read my message yet, only to find she instead choose to to file a paging thread.

      This concludes the timeline of the transaction up to now.
       
      • x 1
    5. As it is, this is how I feel about the situation right now:

      - I sent pictures of the doll, that showed very well it's color and condition.

      - Prince Whitemare was fine with them, and didn't ask for any more and only NOW claims the lightning was bad.
      Which was normal daylight btw and if you look up Soom Prince Charming on flickr, you will find at least one more blank PC from 2015, who's pictures were taken in similar normal light and show nearly the same color as the pics I provided.
      (Here is the link again: Dropbox - Prince Charming )

      [​IMG]

      Prince Charming

      www.dropbox.com

      Shared with Dropbox



      - Even when I noticed the yellowing on the hand and arm, she never asked for additional pictures. I didn't take any either, as it did show up in the pictures and I felt it was an adequate representation and figured she'd looked the pictures up again after I told her so and was okay with it.

      - When she did contact me, to let me know of the yellowing, she did not put pictures (or even a short Box Opening video) of his state upon arrival in there and all I could do was wonder what she meant and tried to provide potential helpful information.

      - When she did finally sent me a picture, it were two pictures of parts, without any description whatsoever. Neither of which she posted here.
      One was of a leg lower leg, that she had obviously made modifications on, as the blushing was all gone, on white paper. (I'll put screenshots below)
      The other was of two hands, one near paper white, the other yellowish, again on paper. By now I do assume that the paper white hand is one of her other Sooms, while the yellowed hand is likely supposed to be the yellowed hand of the Prince Charming doll I sent her.


      Dropbox - screenshot_1.png

      Dropbox - screenshot_2.png

      (In case the links don't work, check the last two pictures in the Dropbox, labeled as 'screenshot_1.png & 'screenshot_2.png'.)


      I'd like to add at this point, that neither the leg-picture nor the hand picture looks like the color Prince Charming had when he was mine, not even at the supposedly cleaned part.
      Again I'd like to refer to the pituress taken on the day of contact. If the leg had been that bad, it would be visible on those pictures and not in tone with everything else.

      Looking at the pictures here however, I have to notice that the yellowish hand side by side next to the white one, is nowhere near as yellow a the picture I was provided.


      - Prince Whitemare also added, that she had already MAJORLY modified/'cleaned' other parts of him and the picture Prince Whitemare herself provided, show that she has modified him already all over.

      - I can see yellowing/discoloring at the pictures Prince Whitemare provides of what I suppose is his current state on 16th Jan.

      SIX days after she received him from me.

      - I still haven't seen a picture of the supposed yellowing in his original state (upon arrival Wednesday, 10th Jan.), when he still had face-up, blushing and back tattoo, before whatever was used to remove those.

      - I do not know what she did or attempted in order to 'clean' him to get him in a state of color that she liked, in nearly a week's time.
      I can only say that in none of the pictures does it look like the color on my pics. And at this point I can't exclude the possability that, her 'cleaning' attempts is cause for the discoloration.

      - Since there are no pictures of him in his original state, showing the supposed yellowing, and the doll I sent didn't have any - other then what is visible on the photos - it is irreproducible for me, that there was other yellowing or discoloration upon arrival due to an oversight of mine.

      IF there HAD somehow been any yellowing that I had missed, that Prince Whitemare could have shown me (in his original state, as I shipped him, before any modifications), this would have been an entirely different matter, from the first time she contacted me about the yellowing.

      With lack of proof, that the yellowing she's now displaying being on the doll upon arrival, she's expecting me to take her word for the truth, despite being only able to provide pictures of the doll in a modified state.


      - I do not understand that she started modifying a doll, that she was not happy with, BEFORE clearing up her dissatisfaction at all as we had a very friendly and easygoing conversation up until then.


      Despite all this, I know that Prince Charming is her grail doll and I DO want her to be able to enjoy said doll.
      As such, I stay by my original offer of 40 EUR (around 50 $ right now) to aid with supplies -as she requested-, so she can continue working/modding on him until her ideas are finalized.


      And while it's likely me getting the 'cat in the bag', as I don't know what she did to him to cause him to look like he does on the pictures provided, I'm also still standing by my original offer to take him back for 400 EUR (not USD), with her covering trackable and insured shipping.

      Since communication up to now was quite fluent, I feel a deadline for the decission to be made until Jan 27th, is more than enough, if I do not hear back from Prince Whitemare, I'll consider the matter settled on my side and her not being interested in my offer after all.
       
      • x 1
    6. Prince Whitemare, you have asked me to see things from your side.
      I have tried, but you aren't giving me much to work with.

      I wonder if you have tried to see things from my side as well at all.

      Imagine you have sent out a doll, that you are sure to be in great condition (because you know it has been in a box, with little light exposure, and only a bit yellowing on one hand and arm).
      Then doll arrives and the buyer tells you the yellowing is rather significant and spread out further than what you yourself noticed.
      You don't get any pictures at first and then only get two pictures of parts, where the buyer has obviously messed around with, and even says so, then asks you to 'Please consider refunding me at least some money to get more sanding equipment.'
      Would you assume you mis-judged the state of the doll because of this?

      That's my 'side', my situation right now.
      I am expected to believe I misjudged the condition of the doll, majorly by your word.
      Because no matter how emotionally distraught you are, you have to admit, that asking me to believe you based on the pictures you provided is quite a lot.

      I did momentarily wonder if the doll could have yellowed despite my precautions or if I did forget a time where I left him out, when you did contact me about it. I couldn't come up with any, yet I was willing to take a look at whatever yellowing you had to show and see what we could work out together from there.
      Had you provided me with pictures upon his arrival, this would have been an entirely different matter.

      For one reason or another, you instead immediately started working on the doll to 'redemy' what you believed wrong.
      Which is fine, since it's 'your' doll now.
      You can do with it whatever you want to.
      BUT. You can't expect me to just buy your words without proof.
      It's almost unwritten law, that if there is an issue with a doll upon delivery, you take pictures of said damage and communicate that to the original owner.
      Again, I understand that you might have been emotionally distraught, but that doesn't change the fact that I have nothing to track back any kind of yellowing, other than the mentioned one, to the time this doll has been in my care.

      The fact that you didn't even try to get back to me after my offer, to explain to me why the 40 EUR supposedly are not enough for the material-costs (which is what you asked from me, you didn't ask me to refund due to lowered value, you asked me to refund you part of the money for working materials based on the information that he was not the color you expected), nor offer additional pictures, but let days pass before opening a paging thread and not even seeing it necessary to inform ME that you had done so, but let me find out via notification, is majorly disappointing to say at least. But that is something I'll have to live with.

      I DO feel sorry for the state your doll apparently is in right now.
      I can however not accept your accusations.

      As far as I'm concerned, I'm already showing a lot of godwill by my offer. It's up to you wether you'll take it or not.

      Maybe take a moment to really read especially this last post and reflect if everything was really as bad as you feel/felt it was, or if your emotional state perhaps amplified your senses.

      Thanks for your time and your will to work throught this in a friendly way.
      I'll be checking in from time to time, but it would be best to tag me when you reply, so I'll see the notification the moment I check in and can get back to you.
       
      • x 3
    7. Hi there ...

      I will try to keep it short(ish).

      Edit: Failed this one.



      I was not complaining about his color being different. I simply compared the stage of yellowing of those two dolls. Yellowing does happen naturally over time. It can happen faster based on temperature, air and light exposure. I have had and still have quite a few Soom dolls in creamwhite so I know the difference between their older more creamy white (ivory) and their newer more paperwhite skintone which are both creamwhite.

      Here are all human creamwhite hands that I own currently.
      Top: Prince Charming (2015, based on the not yellowed hand you can see that his color matches the ivory of Benmore)
      Mid: Benmore (2013, older creamwhite, being more of a ivory color, hand on top has light, fleshcolored blushing, stored in box)
      Bottom: Isha (2015, almost paperwhite, missing the ivory touch)

      For further compairson there is:
      Isha's tail
      Benmore's thigh piece, that has just a touch more yellowing as the dark stored human hands (blushed)
      Dolomi parts (2011, prolonged sun exposure according to the seller)

      [​IMG]

      Here you can see the inside of my Benmore's leg joint VS. the inside of Charming's.

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      Back to what I was trying to explain. My Benmore was made early 2013 ( checked it to be correct on this one) while Charming was made 2015. My doll has natural LIGHT yellowing due to age. Meaning it is on the whole doll, all over, inside his joints, even inside his torso etc. It is just the resin aging. Since I have him he has never been in his box. He always sat on a shelve in our living room and got quite some daylight and still he is completely even. Same for Dolomi, same for the White Rabbit I had, same for Isha.


      If you tell me your doll hasn't been exposed to anything that causes yellowing (like being exposed to sunlight) I have all rights on this earth to expect natural, meaning even, yellowing unless being told something else. And this is not even what I was epecting since I was told NO YELLOWING at the beginning.

      So it's not the matter of me expecting something different based on my dreams and hopes, emotions or what ever else you are trying to blame, it's the matter of me expecting what was offered.

      Stop trying to tell me what color he was or was not. I can see his original color. It's still on him on some parts, while on other parts he has become another color. Dolls don't come spotted. So even if we let out the fact of how intense or not intense it is for moment:
      This is called UNEVEN YELLOWING.​
      If it would really be the problem of the resin his parts would have the same color all over. If there would be a single part that was having a different color all over I could see how that's a issue with the material but for instance his lower arm is very very yellow on one side while the other side is almost perfectly fine. So you are trying to tell me that's the resin? Every single part of the doll is cast individually.
      So by some sort of magic all those seperately cast parts have color changes

      1. orientated to the same direction -> the left side (for instance his RIGHT leg has the yellowing on the side facing inwards !!!)
      2. have the colorchange on only one side of the doll
      3. have colorchange intensity of those parts matching exactly where they join together
      4. have the colorchange COMPLETELY STOP right where the parts have been covered from light, regardless if that means the inside of the joint or just the inside of the doll

      Who are you even trying to fool?
       
      • x 16
    8. [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      To be honest I don't care how or why it happened.
      It shouldn't be my problem at all as you were the seller.
      You have to know what you are selling and you have to describe what you are selling according to reality.
      Can you understand that?
      If you would have looked at him and his state before you even contacted me all this could have been avoided.
      It took you a whole WEEK (7 days, 29th dec to 4th jan) to even notice(???) or at least mention the yellowing on his arm and you did so AFTER you was paid in full for this doll.
      To me it seems that you haven't taken him out any time earlier just 'assuming' he has no yellowing and hence offering me something based on your beliefs rather than facts.
      If I would think worse about your intentions I could almost believe you KNEW exactly how he looked but prefered to not inform me about it until you got your money safe already.

      I just assumed it must have been sunlight based on the how his yellowing is spread over his body.

      At the end all that I care for is the fact he is not as described. He has yellowing opposed to what you told me
      (letting out the fact it is far from what I and many others would consider as 'light yellowing', just based on the fact it's not just on his arm).


      Yes you informed me he has 'a bit' of yellow on his arm and I did the mistake to trust your words without further asking as I was thinking you have the doll in your hands and can judge his state much better than me with those pictures taken in 'normal daylight' as you claim. Also you only told the yellowing is on his arm. You didn't even mention the hand which is by far the worst color of all parts.

      And yes my attitude changed based on the fact that you aren't acting like you are taking any of your responsibilities as a seller in this case and instead blaimg everything on earth for the problem including me. Even going so far that you prefer calling me a scammer on an anonymous blog ...

      As already mentioned how the trust in your words was most likely my mistake.
      But now the important part.
      Your pictures as you continue to brag about how clear yours represent the reality as opposed to the many I took.


      You took them in 'normal daylight'.
      Maybe I am completely wrong but ... we both live in Germany ?


      I exported our conversation. I also have E-mail notification.

      ################################################################################

      Conversations from Den of Angels (Featured Threads)

      Exported on: Jan 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM
      Conversations: 1

      ################################################################################


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Title: Prince Charming
      Participants: strawberryfrog, Prince Whitemare
      replies: 40
      Last Reply Date: Jan 17, 2018 at 7:30 AM

      From: strawberryfrog
      Date: Dec 29, 2017 at 5:00 PM

      Do you want pictures? I can take them right now for you.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: strawberryfrog
      Date: Dec 29, 2017 at 5:03 PM

      Working on ya pictures.


      ################################################################################

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
       
      • x 11
    9. Additional there are double shadows on your pictures meaning multiple sources of light.
      I took pictures of Charming in artificial light today .
      Does it mean the yellow has magically disappeared ???
      As you see you can hardly see any differences in color (maybe if you look at the now unblushed, original white hooves or if you know what to look for)
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      I also took a pictures in daylight early this morning (cloudy conditions, yaaay Germany ~___~)
      AAAND THERE yellow again.

      [​IMG]

      Most of the pictures I took are made while the doll was under a daylight spectrum light, that I bought for working on faceups or anything else that involves colors since the normal artificial lighting will mess extremely with the perception of color.

      The reason why I didn't upload any "Boxopening" stuff was that I simply was in deep shock seing the state he was in.

      As I told you in my message my intention was to see if it is damage done too the doll or just the sealer having yellowed.
      The 'modification' was removing the blushing with Isopropyl alc (absolutely safe on dolls), magic ereaser and water, and sanding the seamline on a small spot of the yellowed leg. I do seamremoval on every doll that I own myself with very very fine sanding sponges that follow every curve of the scupts and don't leave plain spots. Both things are more or less kind of basic maintenance rather than 'modification'. This resulted in showing his original color beneeth that yellow.
      The pictures were taken on the 10th January (look at flickr for details) and represent the state of the doll at arrival minus the blushing.
      Removing the blushing with doll safe methods and material isn't suddenly turning a not yellowed doll into a unevenly yellowed one ....
      I admit those were taken in a rush and came out a bit dark but I mostly wanted to show the glaring difference of his 'two sides'.
      Even if the color/contrast is a littlte off you can't tell me that this made the difference appear out of nowhere.......
      Both hands are charming's!
      [​IMG]

      And here is what I wanted to show:
      Following pictures show the two sides of the SAME leg (left one)

      First left side of the left leg
      [​IMG]
      Second right side of the left leg
      [​IMG]

      Also I don't know why a neutral background with a color everyone can relate to, like a basic sheet of paper is something bad.
      On top of that I am not altering any of my pictures.
      Feel free to have a look a t my flickr. Every picture has the information of the date, time that I took it, aswell as the date I uploaded it.
       
      • x 18
    10. Can only assume you looked on him once while packing him for shipping and I assume it was in artifical light which masks the color differences as shown earlier.
      Also I would like to know how I turned his color to being suddenly unevenly yellowed in just a few hours without sunlight ...
      What should I have done to change his state? Blush him yellow unevenly all over ?????
      Dye my grail yellow in the shape of his former blushing / tattoo? For the sake of ???


      Talked about that earlier.

      No they are taken on the 10th -> flickr has all the time stamps

      -> flickr has all the time stamps
      Talked about that earlier. + Yes, my fail to take all that off in a rush hoping the yellow would be gone with the sealant which was only on his face and maybe his legs. His Hooves and his back weren't sealed / sealed properly before applying the paint.
      But yet again. Isopropyl (rubbing alcohol), water and magic ereaser don't apply yellow on a doll.

      -> flickr has all the time stamps+
      Talked about that earlier. +
      I am and was not trying to get him to a state 'that I liked'. Get the facts straight please all I do is restoring his original color from the yellowed state he is in.

      My fail, as I explained I hoped it was yellowed sealant. Also being in shock of the color being nowhere near to what I was advertised.

      My idea of a doll that isn't unevenly yellowed...
      I asked for:
      Please consider refunding me at least some money to get more sanding equipment.

      AT LEAST should have been bold I guess ...
      I paid a price agreed on the basis of a doll without yellowing.
      I was told to get a doll that has no yellowing except for one arm that has a bit of yellow.
      I got something not even close to what I paid for.
      I need to invest time and material to get him to a state hopefully close to what I was expecting to get based on your description on the first place. So I am left with a doll with a lot lower value than what I paid for + burdened with the project of restoring him which increases the gap between what I paid for - what I got even further.

      Removed 'professional' blushing / face up + one littlte spot seam sanded without altering the sculpt (both things maintenance) = dolls value decreased by 250€

      Doll advertised as no yellowing ( - one ARM) -> has (heavy) uneven yellowing all over including the face that can't be sanded (Which is actually considered a damage to the doll as it is permanent) = doll's value decreased by 50€

      This is not at all about seeing sides. This is about the fact that the doll's color is unevenly yellowed and nothing else.
      If you would have taken my concerns seriously earlier rather than telling me it must be the resin, my pictures being bad and so forth we wouldn't be here ...
      You simply refused to work with what I gave you before. For instance yo never asked for more pictures ...
      Instead you acted immediately like I faked pictures and made up excuses about everything.

      Now you are even hinting that I !!!!!! made him turn yellow in just a few hours by whatever I shall have done.
      Sorry but:
      What the actual ...?!

      Also I am giving you much to work with right now @strawberryfrog

      I provided MANY pictures in different lighting conditions to proof ... : /

      I did ->
      Please stop trying to do the "It's all in your head"- thing okay?
      Yes this is my grail but it doesn't matter the fact
      no yellowing(bit of yellowing on one arm) != (heavily), uneven yellowed

      It's still 650€ we are talking about. That's a lot of money. In the end I bought an ITEM that wasn't as described.

      I still want to believe that you maybe handled him only in artifical lighting conditions and therefore was left with the impression that his color was even. But I hope you can understand why it's hard for me to believe because the leg is the same yellow as his arm which you noticed ...

      I still believe 100$ is not too much to ask for his condition (meaning loss in value), material (restoration) and time compensation (restoration). Also sanding isn't easy at all since the dust is highly toxic.

      I know I asked for at least material costs but seeing how you set the value loss for the 'modifications' I did I feel this isn't fair at all.
       
      • x 23
    11. After reading through your recent posts, I can somewhat better understand where you are coming from.
      We both made mistakes in this transaction, and I think discussing single points about small details will only bring us back and forth with no solution.

      I wish you'd shared more pictures with me from the start (especially since you seemed to have had them).
      I believe, we could have resolved this without wasting so much time on both sides.

      I'm still not quite convinced that the yellowing was as bad as you made it out to be (banana, ring any bells?), but for the sake of finally resolving this issue, I'm going to adjust my offer and meet you in the middle.

      I'm willing to refund you 75$ to have this matter settled, done and over with.
      If you still feel this is too little, please consider turning to PayPal, as they are likely the only completely neutral party that can make a decision regarding this case.
       
      • x 1
    12. Since the process of discussing is indeed pretty exhausting I will accept your offer as it seems to be a fair compromise.
      I believe that both of us have been trough quite a lot up and a lot of down emotions on this.
      Both of us have done things that we will hopefully learn from for the next time, like me asking for more pictures for instance.

      Because the devil is in the details I have to set some conditions though.

      It would be nice if you would simply convert the value to € so that none of us gets charged any unnecessary currency conversion fees since we are both from Europe. I used $ because I felt it is more relatable in an international hobby but for our case it makes a lot of sense to keep the actual cashflow in €.
      If you are refunding the 75$ (= ~61,13€ , just used google quickly) to my Paypal I'd like it sent as friends and family because
      if you are willing to refund 75$ I'd like to get 75$ without getting charged fees on top of that (f&f means no fees for me or you).
      Please let me know if you agree with that.

      I will keep this thread updated and as soon as I get the refund I consider this case closed and resolved.

      I want to thank you for your time and friendliness. I really appreciate your patience.

      Kind regards
      Whitemare
       
      • x 7
    13. I accept your conditions.
      I will refund you 75$, converted in EUR (at the moment it's around 61,18 EUR, I will check again before sending the money), with the option "F&F" via Paypal.
      I will send the refund this evening, after work - and I will update this thread when the transaction is on it's way.

      Last but not least, after the refund is done and on your Paypal account, I consider this done as well and will not update this thread anymore (besides of course the final update when the transaction is on it's way).
       
    14. Payment via Paypal has been done as agreed.
      I consider this matter solved on my part.
       
    15. Thank you very much. I have indeed received the money.
      I consider this solved aswell.
       
      • x 1