Poll: swapping

I think their names should be listed, but there's no use flaming them...
They might be members who signed up and were unable to trade, or just moochers who signed up for a free gift for their dolls...

They certainly shouldn't be allowed to swap again unless they have a valid excuse...and swaps should be overseen by a moderator. Make a list (or two, if there are particpants in Europe unwilling to ship to the US) and mix n' match them.
Members who have not been here for a minimum amount of time will have to wait for the next swap, as they might just be forum surfers who dont really care. Say, three months? And have actively posted, replied and such during those three months...not just signed in, and then, five months down the line, suddenly re-appear to 'swap' then vanish again.

Im currently doing an OOAK doll swap on another site (self-made figurines and dolls) and am in regular contact with my swap partner (neither of us are anywhere NEAR finished!) who is slightly newer than me, but just as responsible....

 

I would say that the information should be made public not so that they're prevented from entering future swaps, but so that people will understand that their may be a bit of a risk element with that particular individual.

Who knows? The person may totally redeem themself, but if over time someone's name shows up repeatedly on swap lists as not having sent an item, then their reputation suffers and others know not to swap with them.

FWIW, maybe instead of making a list of PEOPLE-WHO-DID-NOT-SEND, it might be better to list all the participants of a swap, and give them a status of NOT SHIPPED or SHIPPED.

 

I think there needs to be a bad swappers list or something like that. Once is understandable, but any more than that and people organizing swaps should know about it so thatr they can think twice about accepting those people.

Of course someone should only be added to the list if they've been contacted and aren't responding. If someone knows that they're going to be late, that's a different story rather than just giving up on the swap and not telling anyone about it.

Basic swap curtousy, if you get a gift, but can't send one, FORWARD the gift that you recieved. If you're not going to give one, then you don't really deserve to get one. It's a little bit harsh, maybe, but the point of a swap is to receive AND to give, not just recieve, that is just selfish.

 

A simple observation - a swap is exactly that. It isn't a gift.

The time I went in a swap it was one of those where you received from a different person to whom you sent. I received a wonderful set that had hat a lot of time put into it, and the sender received nothing. So I sent her something, not something I'd made, like was the original intent, but purchased something from another member and had her send it to them.

Since then, I refuse to go in swaps.

 

I think it would be a good precaution for swap organizers to have a list of people who wouldn't mind taking over and sending things to people who get ditched.

 

I don't think they should be publically outted or anything, but I do think they should be un-included from future swaps (without a good excuse). Perhaps the person who organized the swap should inform other swap organizers, but I don't think the whole community needs to know they screwed up, ya know?

 

I think it's a good idea to list all the participants in the swap and then, as gifts come in, to list them as "received". That way we're not purposely pointing anyone out but if someone still hasn't sent something to their swap partner, it will become fairly apparent as their name will still be blank on the side. If the name stays like that for a long time and their swap partner never receives their item, then future swap moderaters can choose to either include them or disclude them. If the person is angry at being left out, then that's their own fault for never sending an item in the last swap.

I'm beginning to waver on the idea of swaps altogether. One or two a year is cute, and a great way for some people to get something when they don't have a lot of money to buy things for their dolls. There are a lot of swaps now, though, and I see the problem getting worse rather than better. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who would see this as an easy way to get free things and never send anything in return.

If it were me I would encourage personal swaps between members who have been in contact for a long time, rather than board wide swaps including anyone who wanted to be in. Or, encourage "gift giving" where you just send a gift and not get anything in return unless someone wanted to give you a gift too.

There really is no fool proof way of finding people who are entirely loyal to their commitments. DoA has some good measures in place, though, like the feedback forum (please update it with feedback! ;_; ) and the LJ group for people who like that sort of thing. Perhaps future swaps could only be open to people who have been on the boards for a certain amount of time, or posted a certain amount of messages. That way there will be no newbies signing up just to get free things. *shrugs*

I think if you're going to participate in a swap you have to be aware you may never get anything in return.

 

It could get ugly if names were to be posted officially. Ugly as in lots of flaming, whining, emo-ing, and general angst-tastic wanking all around. -_- Btw, I have never been in a swap of any kind, so I'm not speaking from experience...although, I have been in various fandoms for a while, so I suppose I can say I speak from experience of the massive, annoying drama that is possible in online communities. >_>

 

I think it would be hard for the organizers to decide what is a "valid reason" and who's telling the truth or not. It's simpler to just put all of the names of the people who didn't ship. But I also agree with plum, a public "shame list" might not be the answer... last thing we want is people getting harassed over this. And I don't think we need 100+ pages of bitching breaking out each time a name is added.

Maybe this could work: at the end of each swap an organizer compiles a list of people who didn't send out and PMs it to a mod. Later, if another organizer is planning to hold a swap they would request the list from the mods and then decide what is best for their swap, or let the participants decide.

Meaning, if you are an organizer you can put messages in your swap thread like.. "people who have flaked in past swaps can not participate" or "I will PM you if your partner has flaked in the past and you can choose to select a different person if you want", or "I allow everyone to participate", or "I am monitoring who joins this swap and if I get participants who didn't send in the past I'll make sure to have extras to cover them", or whatever...

 

I think it's fair to have a bad swappers list made public, just as we have a bad traders list, that's what the feedback forum is FOR. If people do not send, then they can whine and complain at having thier names put on the list all they like, but the fact remains they DID NOT SEND, thereby basicaly scamming thier partner.
A swap is a swap. A trade. Fact is, if someone flaked on a trade they'd be listed before they could blink. A swap should be no different.
At the very least maybe it'll make flakers THINK before deciding to not send out their half. If they don't want to be put on the list, they should send thier half. If they think they might not be able to then they shoudn't join the swap.

 

I voted for making the information public, but I'm more for making a private list that can be shared between the swap leaders, where the name of the people who did not do their part of the swap is noted, along with possible excuses (sometimes we get problems that we didn't foresee, and there is nothing we can do about that, but it should still be noted that they didn't deliver, in case they do this several times in a row) and how cooperative and communicative they were during the trouble.

That way, every one who had a swap could screen the people they thought would be less likely to go through with their part of the deal, or even pair these people up with each other.

I don't think the information on who didn't participate is any of my buisness, though, and that posting their names publicly would just lead to flaming, something we don't want.

 

I think that's a very good idea. "Swap Angels"

For those in favor of people getting a second chance, what if instead of listing a person right away, if they have one strike against them, in order to participate again, they will have to do so on a trial basis. Like others have suggested, keep a list with the mods of those who didn't send out, and then, for x amount of new swaps, they will be required to send their package out FIRST, and will get their package sent to them once it has been confirmed that their package arrived safely. For the swaps where the person you send to isn't necessarily the person who is sending to you, this will help because if the person on "probation" doesn't send out the package, the package that was supposed to be sent TO them can then go to the person who was supposed to get the package FROM them. Did that make sense at all?

If it's a continuous thing, though, I would say that the information should then be made public, for the simple reason that if they didn't follow through on a swap, they might not follow through on other transactions and that information would be rather helpful for those who might be considering doing business with those individuals.

 

I think it's important to attach a stigma to failing to hold up your end of a swap. Not to punish the people who have already fallen though, but to detter people in the future and let them understand this is a serious comittment.

And also.... if some one failed to swap without a good defense to clear their name.... would you want to do do buissness with them in the market place?

It all contributes to reputation.

 

I'm all for accountability. If you sign up you follow through. If you don't, people should know about it.

Right now I'm late with one but I alerted my swap partner and gave details. She should have hers next week. She's only a little disappointed, bless her, and I'm adding a few goodies to ease the pain

As for the emo whining and blithering. Don't let it happen. Don't let the threads start and make the list something that can not be commented on. If you see yourself on the list, and you feel you shouldn't be, PM the wrangler of your last swap and ask why you are there. Maybe there should be a Swap Mod, or this could come under the jurisdiction of the Traders Mod.

Its not harsh or cruel to make people accountable for their actions.
Its harsh and cruel to subject people who follow the rules and do their bit to people who will take advantage of them.

 

I think a private list would work. For other swapper hosts to be able to see. This way it wont become a flame war. And they wont feel that they can not be on the forum. Just means they cannot participate in another swap.
Anyways.. I feel awful because my swap partners have not recieved their gifts yet =( I sent over a month ago for both..and they are not there! I know I sent the slow way (only thing I could afford). But thats why I sent it so early. Granted, they live acroos the world from me..But jeeze..That is SLOW!
And this was my first swap event I have participated in. So it makes me sad to think I cannot go in another =/ Blah..anyways.. I say keep the list private between the swap hosts. They are really the only ones who need to know since they are in charge. And can tell the person no they cannot participate. Simple as that!

 

I'm a moderator of a livejournal swapping community (stuffed monsters in this case) and I can say that every swap something goes wrong. We have a website that allows people to access their swap information (and lets us mods monitor it all). And though the posting deadline was Feb. 14th, as of last night I still have 4 monsters not sent. We've had many issues with deadbeat swappers in the past so I have informed the community that action will be taken against people who flake in a swap. However, understanding that there are personal things more important to people than trading a handmade monster, I am not punishing anyone unless they are more than a week late sending their monster/updating the site. And I asked that anyone having problems sending their monsters on time let me know, which was helpful as one of the users is out of town for a funeral...I wouldn't punish for missing a deadline because of that. For the users that are late posting, I will allow them to swap one monster the next round (you can chose to send and receive up to 3) and if they do it again, they won't be allowed to swap any more. If some one totally disappears during the swap, never updates that they've posted and never contacts anyone, I'll ban them then. Or at least this is my plan. But there is always the case of the postal service eating the packages up for random reasons, in which case we've made a MonsterBank haha It's not really a pile of monsters, but a list of users that make an extra monster to send to a user who missed out in the last swap.
So yeah.... all of this explaining, I do think you need to take action against people who flake in swaps, though given the nature of meeting online to send things, you have to be a little flexible. If someone lets everyone know they're having a problem but will still send, that's ok. But someone needs to keep track of individuals who were late/didn't send at all. Given the nature of the forums, I think the feedback board would be a good place to put the information, because it is feedback. And then anyone organizing a swap can access and use that information as they see fit. And hopefully with the knowledge that there are consequences, people will only sign up if they are sincere about swapping, not just wanting to get free stuff.

 

I understand the desire to make a list of people that have bailed, but at the same time, I think it's sort of wrong to just assume that everyone that has fallen out of contact is automatically a shoddy person to deal with. Life does come at people unexpectedly, and I think that there should be a certain amount of leway. These swaps are typically in the $5 - $10 range, so I would imagine that giving a little understanding wouldn't be too painful.

I dont think people should get away with being a bad swapper, but if you're going to keep a list of peoples names, then undoubtedly they are going to get attacked by members of the board. It's what happens. A friend of a friend finds out that this person didn't come through, and it will get ugly. Great if the person genuinely bailed... but horrible if, say, they lost computer access for 2 months due to being grounded (for some of our younger members) or some sort of tragedy.

Perhaps the list should be a private list, accessable only by those organizing a swap? Then say that PersonA is on the list and tries to join another swap. The organizer would have a list, see PersonA on it, and contact them privately (and tactfully) explaining that they are not willing to accept them into a swap. Or maybe, those that organize multiple swaps just need to keep a list of contact information / usernames so that they just refuse to deal with those individuals in the future.

 

Considering even a month after the due date, people were sending out their things, that's plenty of lee-way.

I think the real deadbeat swappers are the ones that make no effort to exstablish contact once their name is on a list. Otherwise.... better late than never!