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Problem Transaction with ryotakishu - RESOLVED

Mar 13, 2008

    1. First, I want to stress that ryotakishu did ATTEMPT to make this transaction smooth, and that she was willing to offer me a refund. I'm unaware if she didn't complete the transaction correctly because she is unfamiliar with how Paypal works, and the general rules of refund, or if she was simply doing it to cheat me out of money. I'm hoping she is simply unaware of how Paypal works, because she seems very nice, and she shipped the product out quickly and they arrived quickly. It would have been a lovely transaction had the product been as described.

      I also want it noted that I have NEVER written a problem transaction before, and that I always want to work things out with people. Unfortunately, ryotakishu was unwilling to work out a correct refund.

      Below is our PM conversation:

      Vaith: Hi! I'd like to buy those [blue] eyes. Are they still available?

      ryotakishu: Yes, they're available. The total would be $22.50, and my Paypal address is [removed for privacy]. Thanks so much for your interest!

      Vaith: Paid!

      ryotakishu: I got your payment. I can't get to the post office until Saturday, but I'll let you know right away once I've shipped the eyes.

      Vaith: Thanks!

      ryotakishu: I mailed the eyes out yesterday, sorry I forgot to PM you about it until today!

      --The eyes arrived on Wednesday, March 12th, very fast shipping. Unfortunately, the eyes were a size 18mm instead of the 20mm that she had advertized them as.--

      Vaith: I recieved your eyes today -- unfortunately, these are 18mm eyes and not 20mm eyes. You had them as 18mm eyes on your thread, was that mislabeled or were you under the impression that these are in fact 20mm Soom eyes?

      ryotakishu: Oh dear I received them as defaults with a SOOM doll I'd ordered, so it's not like I'd actually ordered them as specifically 18mm or specifically 20mm eyes. I held them up to actual-size comparison photos I have in a SOOM brochure, and I genuinely thought they were 20mm. I'm really sorry for the mixup.

      Vaith: Would you be able to give me a refund? Or is that not possible? And I would warn the person buying the black and white eyes, also, because those appear to be the same size, so they're like 18mm also.

      ryotakishu: I'd be perfectly willing to refund the $3 more I was charging for 20mm eyes versus 18mm, or did you want to just return them?

      Vaith: I have no use for 18mm eyes, unfortunately. I needed 20mm, because the doll I need them for wears 20mm. I'd rather just return them to you and purchase a pair of 20mm somewhere. Otherwise I'd just have to turn around and sell them myself.

      ryotakishu : Alright, I understand. I'm refunding you the $20 for the eyes right now. (Due to technical issues, I'm sending it as two payments of $0.97 and 19.03. I wanted to get rid of the balance on an old gift card, pay it no mind.)

      Vaith: And the dollar that it took out of the 'refund' in Paypal fees? I'd prefer that you sent me an actual refund, which takes out no fees, instead of sending me a payment, because it took $.85 out of one payment and $.33 out of the second, plus it will be taking more money out of the money that you sent me as a payment.

      If this transaction continues this way, I will have paid approximately $6.50 to recieve the eyes, try them in my doll, and return them to you. Not to mention that my post office is eight miles away and it'll cost me however much in gas to be able to return them to you. (Notice here that I DID NOT ASK HER TO PAY ANY GAS FEES, I ONLY MENTIONED THAT IT WOULD COST GAS, I did NOT ask for any extra money for gas.)

      I'm honestly not pleased with the way this transaction is going at all. I shouldn't have to pay any money at all, considering it was your mistake on the eye size.

      ryotakishu: You're right that it was my mistake on the eye size, and I am sorry for that. But Paypal fees are not my fault; fees were taken out of your original payment when I received them too, there's nothing I can do about that. It's against Paypal policies to charge a buyer extra to cover Paypal fees, so I don't, and I would expect the same treatment in return. So yes, it's unfair that either of us should have to pay for you to try eyes on your doll and find them incompatible, but I'm afraid that's out of my hands.

      My post office is several miles from where I live as well, and I had to pay for the envelope to ship your package in, but I'm not charging you my gas bill. My $2.50 shipping rate is reasonable, considering I usually pay more than that overall out of pocket.

      Yes, I understand that the mistake in eye size was my fault. As a seller, though, my first reaction was to just refund you a few dollars to cover the difference and leave you to sell them yourself, that was the most profitable course of action for all parties. But you asked to return them, so I tried to be conscientious and agreed against my better judgment. I'm sorry for this whole transaction, really I am, but getting bent out of shape isn't going to help matters any. If it's really so important to you, I'll send you another $2.50 to cover shipping the eyes back to me, but you'll have to wait a few hours until I can get to the bank. Or maybe I should charge you for the gas I'll use to get there? That's probably more than the initial $2.50, isn't it? While we're at it, how about I charge you the full $28 SOOM charges for 18mm silicone eyes, and say you owe me the dollar and change of difference?

      I see your point of view, and I understand why it's so frustrating that you have to pay just to find out the eyes were the wrong size. But when you start asking me to pay all your Paypal fees and the gas money to reach the post office, I think you're getting a bit out of line.

      Vaith: You're wrong.

      There is a neat feature in paypal called 'Refund'. If you go to my name and click 'refund buyer' it sends me the exact amount that I sent you, $22.50, and it refunds me that exact amount, including the fees, so that you've lost no money in the transaction at all. You could have simply used the refund option, like I asked you, and then we wouldn't have had the paypal fee problem. That would have been simple. If you would have done that, I wouldn't have bothered asking about the return shipping fee, because I would have been satisfied that I'd gotten back what I paid for them, and I would have been happy to simply send them back.

      Instead, you only sent me $20 (when I paid $22.50), and instead of refunding it and giving me back everything that I paid (by using the refund feature), you sent me the $20 using a pay feature, which took out paypal fees. I never asked you to cover my fees, just to refund me. You didn't.

      And I never asked you to pay for gas, I just mentioned that I would have to use it to get there. You are out of line. I'll be REFUNDING your money to you, which is a feature that gives you your complete amount back, without taking out fees, because I don't want you to lose any money out of this deal, like I have; which is what you should have done in the first place, and I'll be selling the eyes in the market place and leaving you appropriate feedback, including everything that has been said in these IMs.

      Thank you.


      ---I have since REFUNDED the money that she 'refunded' to me. She recieved her FULL $20 in return, instead of the $16.22 (I would have only refunded her the $18.62 that I was actually paid, after fees) that she would have recieved after paypal fees were taken out, if I had 'paid' her the money that I should have been refunding, as she had done to me. I left her a note in the refunds saying: "This is how you refund money." So that she would be aware that there is, in fact, a refund feature, if she was unaware of it previously.

      Here is a screen shot to prove that I issued a refund:

      All in all, I only lost $2.50 in this deal (if I can manage to sell the eyes for $20, which is highly unlikely). I'll update this thread after I manage to sell these eyes, and let everyone know how much money I actually lost.

      I know that $2.50 (plus whatever other amount) is not a lot of money, but my purpose in writing up this problem transaction is that she was very rude to me, and was unwilling to issue me a full refund, thus costing me money. What if it had been a $100 outfit? That I'd be out a lot more money.

      I wanted everyone to know that ryotakishu is a fabulous seller IF HER PRODUCT IS AS LISTED. Everything was smooth until I was sent a product that I did not ask for, and once I requested a refund, I was sent a payment.

      Had I allowed this transaction to go as ryotakishu wanted it to, this would have been the result:

      I pay $22.50 for the eyes.

      I am refunded $20 ($.97 and $19.03)

      Paypal takes out $1.18 ($.33 and $.85)

      I now only have $18.82.

      I purchase an evelope to mail the eyes in $.79.

      I mail the eyes $1.60.

      I have now only $16.43 of the original $22.50 that I paid for these eyes.

      I have now paid $6.07 simply to try the eyes in my doll and figure out that the seller made a mistake and sent me eyes that were not what she advertized them to be.

      But I instead have chosen to keep the eyes and sell them myself, so that I'll HOPEFULLY be out less money.

      I will be posting her reply to my PM as soon as I get it.
    2. I wasn't going to reply to your last PM; I didn't think there was anything left to say.

      I truly am sorry for how ugly this turned out. I wasn't aware of the Paypal 'refund' option, and should this kind of situation arise again, I'll definitely use it. (Last time I used an official refund option, on ebay's Half.com, it actually charged me more than the item was worth, it was a mess.) I certainly did say a lot of things that were unnecessary, and I misunderstood your PM when you asked me to use the refund option, because I didn't know about it and wasn't sure what you meant.

      But do I respect what you're doing as a buyer, letting others know about a problem transaction in case this sort of thing happens again. I'm not trying to pretend I wasn't at fault, because I was. And I did let that other person buying eyes from me know about the mistake, they haven't responded yet whether or not they still want the other eyes.