Problem Transaction with TenshiLo - UNRESOLVED MEMBER MP BANNED

Jan 27, 2010

    1. First I'd like to state this is purely to document the facts of this sale and susequent claim through Paypal to ensure my reputation remains intact - and to publicly make her an offer of resolution. I have PM'ed TenshiLo to inform her of this thread - this is not to be inflamitory or to make accusations - TenshiLo is as heartsick over this as I am and this is not to paint eithert of us in a bad light.

      Item in question: Fairyland Minifee Scar Breakaway Head and Arm set.

      Sold: for $130 USD 27th November 2009 on Ebay (was advertised for sale in DoA MP also) + $11.50 regular postage

      Buyer: TenshiLo (on Doa) known as ningyou75 on ebay

      Situation: Uninsured article is LOST in the post. The item was bought and paid for on the 27th of November and Posted on the 1st December 2009 - it still has not arrived.

      TenshiLo and I kept up very friendly banter via messaging throughout the entire transaction, exchanging pictures of our dolls and our usernames on DoA for future contact - She is a very amicable person and I know this situation is causing her as much grief as it is me - Australia Post prior to Christmas were involved in a stop work strike in some departments - whilst Ebay and Australia Post assured us (Australians) that it should not delay any parcels - 90% of the items I mailed in December were delayed, some more so than others.

      TenshiLo bought the head and paid for regular airmail which is neither registered nor insured and not trackable. I informed her of this at the beginning of the transaction and there was no objection from her. Had she asked for insurance/registered post I would have gladly provided her with it.

      Once I received the funds I contacted the participants in the Fairyland group order that I received the gift head from and reimbursed each of them for the shipping they had paid me to receive their items. All agreed prior to the arrival of the order that this was the fairest way to share the gift item around without favoritism. There was no profit from the sale at all once fees on paypal and ebay were paid.

      To date TanshiLo has not received the head and a dispute on Paypal was opened on the 4th of January 2010. I have done everything humanly possible to assist TenshiLo in finding the package and have filed a missing parcel complain with Australia Post. I e-mailed her the receipt from the postage on 8th January 2010, which she took to the French post office who informed her that they would not be able to find it without a tracking number - which she KNEW did not exist.

      On the last day of the dispute TenshiLo upgrated to a full Claim and my account was put into a negative balance of $141.50 USD. I offered via E-mail to TenshiLo to pay her the maximum amount I am able to claim back from Australia Post for an uninsured article which is $61.00 - I did not receive a response.

      In the same e-mail to her I stated clearly that the head was sold to reimburse the group order participants their shipping and that I had neither the money nor a replacement head. I again have not received a response to this.

      Paypal thismorning via the telephone have clearly informed me that my receipt for postage was insufficient as it had no address on it. My account will remainin a negative balance untill I pay it back and after a period of time it will be withdrawn from my bank account or I will be refused acces to paypal entirely. TenshiLo knew the parcel was neither insured nor registered and continued with the claim knowing full well that without one of the two Paypal would award in her favour.

      I have a receipt for the postage stating clearly the date it was mailed - the weight of the package and the counry (FRANCE) - My immense dissapointment at having my flawless reputation on ebay damaged is tangible and I seek to resolve this issue here on DoA as this is where the money obtained by the sale of the head was directed and the article was originally obtained. I was so very very hurt that TenshiLo failed to understand the situation and chalk it up to a bad experience.

      If TenshiLo is willing to close the dispute I can guarantee I will stake my reputation as a respected member of DoA on paying her back the $61.00 I can claim from Australia Post and the remaining $80 over a set period of time. Despite the clear fact that I am at NO FAULT at all I will be willing to exchange keeping my good reputation on Paypal for the time to refund the money.

      Please TenshiLo give this the consideration that it deserves - I did the right thing at every turn and whilst I understand that the parcel is missing you KNOW I am not a bad person and will do everything I can to pay you back dspite the fact that It is not my fault!!
    2. Wish to add > I sent a PM to TenshiLo today directing her to this message and begging her to give me a fair go with Paypal - it has been read however she has not replied.... WHY wont your reply to my e-mails and my PM?
    3. TenshiLo was last on the forum today. She is now Being Paged. Please keep this thread updated with resolution.
    4. TenshiLo you have been on-line AND read my messages please reply.

      Paypal are re-reviewing the case before granting the refund as I have presented them with every scrap of documentation and spent yet another hour on the phone with the resolutions centre as well as an appointment at Australia Post to further search for evidence of the parcels location. I included an e-mail clearly outlining the type of shipping TenshiLo paid for which was visible in the original listing page - it is most likely all in vain and the amount will never be returned to my account but I did also notice this:

      I checked Paypal and found the following message to Paypal the day the dispute was escalated to a claim (24th January 2010) :

      Which literally translates to: I did not contact her or follow up on the parcel from the 12th of December and her post office is unable to locate the parcel with the documentation I sent her.

      My comments on this are:
      It was neither insured NOR registered as you were fully aware so there is no tracking and the rest is a bald faced Lie - I sent you in the last two months a total of 13 e-mail/paypal/e-bay messages, I did follow up on the parcel, even before the expected shipping time had passed following this message:

      I went to the post office and then informed you via e-mail that there had been WORK STRIKES at Australia Post - at the time of shipping I was unnaware of this then noticed it was documented in the Ebay announcements page, delays were possible and to be expected.

      As of the 14th of December only a total of 10 working days had passed to which a minimum of 3 days of Aus Post handling time has to be added due to my rural location.

      My "following up" on the parcel also included the repeated trips to and from the post office, hours on the phone, faxes back and forth from the sorting depot all of which I did gladly to help you as very best I possibly could.

      I understand that you are "within your right" to claim the money through Paypal, I am dissapointed you have completely discounted the moral or ethical obligations - you KNEW THERE WAS NO INSURANCE OR TRACKING.

      Moderators: I feel that whilst Paypal are acting according to their "policy" TenshiLo at this point is acting completely without any thought to the moral standing in this case - as she has proceeded to place a claim on a parcel she knew full well would result in a refund as a result of paying for only regular postage.

      Please see the link below for the receipt of postage:

      Receipt of postage for TenshiLO
    5. I sent another PM to TenshiLo yesterday 28th January - it too has been read and ignored.


      I am not an ATM and losing this money is a painful enough lesson for shipping uninsured without being treated publicly with such callous disrespect.
    6. Hello,

      I didn't answer to your first post because I didn't understand why you've wrote such a post on this forum.
      I also have udge working days and wanted to be focus on my answer.
      It's not so easy to write such a post with all the translation thing after a big day at work (I think that you can figure it)

      About our problem in the december Ebay transaction :

      First thing, why are you posting here instead of mailing me as we ever did?
      Our transaction was on Ebay not here?
      I'm quite new on DOA, I only came few times to look at the gallery.
      I didn't saw the sale advertised in the marketplace as I couldn't but once again on Ebay!
      I've been allowed last week to access to the marketplace and as soon you post this theard about me... Don't you think this is a really unfair and bad way to do things?

      I've bought you the breakaway head and arm set as you said.
      First thing I did after my Paypal payment was asking you about tracking number.
      (Specify that postage fees was only pruposed for regular Airmail in your sale)
      Your reply was exactly :

      Hi H...,

      Your head/arm set was posted on Monday morning as soon as the post-office was open :). There is no tracking number as it was sent via airmail and not EMS. I have never lost a parcel before and the estimated delivery time is 5-10 days so 1-2 weeks I am absolutely certain it will arrive safely and in-time for Christmas - And what a lovely gift too - This Breakaway head is one of the nicest I've seen and the detail in the scarring is incredible - I'm sure your friend will appreciate it!!

      Best Regards

      Then I explained to you that I didn't know sending Airmail parcel without tracking number was possible (otherwise, I would have pm you and asked for tracking etc...).
      In France, we can't send parcels without tracking number and I was a little worried because of christmas time, post office is always a mess at this time of year...
      However, I was quite confident after reading your message, so I waited, waited and waited...

      The parcel didn't show up.
      You kindly send me the necessary documents to file a claim at post office.
      They didn't found anything with it which I told you via email.

      I was confident in your judgment about sending a parcel overseas at christmas time and unfortunatly I was wrong... The parcel is lost, I can't do anything to find it.

      I waited for the definitive answering letter of post office to contact you.

      I'm very upset and offended that you thought it was necessary to open this thread here on DOA.

      I'm really new on the forum (it's not difficult to check it) and never have such problem with my ebay account (you can check too).

      Your reputation would surelly remain intact as I didn't told anyone or anywhere about this problem, oppositly mine is really bad now for something that didn't even happened via the forum but on EBAY.
      I wanted to buy a doll (that I can't find in France) with paypal payment and EMS, and thanks to your thread the seller don't want anymore to sale me the doll!

      In that case, I'm just sorry to tell you that we'll have to resolve this matter in private as it should have been from the beginning till solution and final issue.

      Thanks to let me know with a private email and make sure that thread will be erased.
    7. I have explained in the first post I opened this thread as you had not replied to two e-mails and a PM to urge you to resolve this via e-mails and not resort to escalating a claim on Paypal.

      like I said Nous pouvons conférer en français - (we can confer in French,) I speak enough to understand it well. I understand entirely the pressure of working - I am a part time Burser for a privately owned Yacht and I am a Bridal Designer, at this current moment I have three wedding dresses due to be finished within the next 2 months. What I DONT understand is why you did not reply to at LEAST one on the last four messages telling me you needed time to translate your answer.

      I did e-mail you and you did not reply.

      The sale was first advertised on DoA and linked to the e-bay sale so I am able to open this thread here which I did ONLY after you failed to reply to my e-mails.

      I'm not going tit-for-tat on whats unfair and bad. We can settle this right now with an immediate 50% refund of the cost of the head and the shipping costs if you close the Paypal claim immediately - THAT is fair and good dont you think? I made you an offer via e-mail to which you did not reply so I opened this thread in the interest of public disclosure and to inform members of the community and to hopefully prevent this from happening to anyone else ever again, sellers AND buyers.

      I do not believe you that you didnt know that "regular airmail" or verbatim (mot à mot) as per the e-bay listing "regular flat rate international" does not have tracking. The payment and Returns section on the listing stated in simple English "No Insurance, No Refunds"

      I have never ever lost a parcel EVER, I have had sometimes long delays but never a complete dissapearance of a package, even to Hrvatska (Croatia) and Italy which are notorious for parcel loss and obliteration

      I relayed to you via e-mail that I was only informed by the post office AFTER I sent you that e-mail that there had been Stop Work Strikes by Australia Post as well as that the usual estimated delivery times for International mail did not apply during the "Christmas Mail Period" which actually starts the first week of October

      I was wrong too about delivery times - I dont deny that at all, And I provided you with every scrap of documentation I could get from Australia Post to locate this package - And as I stated in the first PM you ignored I have spent hours on the phone having people physically looking through the unclaimed parcels department for our state to be certain it is not here, I repeately went backwards and forwards from the Post Office checking physically for updates as to its whereabouts and I have cried my heart out on the phone to Paypal for taking the money from my account.

      I am very upset and offended that you ignored me repeatedly even after I explained that the head was sold to reimburse group order participants and BEGGED you to drop the claim so I could pay you back over an allotted period of time. And knowing full well that it was an uninsured parcel continued to escalate the Paypal dispute to a claim without an e-mail to me seeking a resolution. This would have been very simple - had you replied I wouldnt have opened this thread.

      My reputation will hopefully remain intact because I bend over backwards to help people - I give more than I expect to get in return and I treat everyone with dignity and respect that is deserved, it has nothing to do with you "not telling anyone" which is a false statement.

      As per the marketplace rules - I can open a problem transaction thread if the sale is originally advertised in the Den of Angels web-site - this could have been avoided altogether had you not ignored my e-mails and PM's.

      This is not any my business and has no bearing on this transaction at all - I am sorry that this was not resolved sooner with a simple outcome.

      I will not request this thread to be erased, nor will I request it to be locked untill we reach a resolution - then the title can be changed to reflect that.

      Seeing as you have repeatedly ignored me I will continue this in the open untill a resolution is achieved. I have nothing to hide by doing so and I presume you are the same. Resolving this privately has only failed to occur because of your lack of communication and response to my repeated requests.

      With a 50% refund I lose half my money and the head and you only lose half your money - and in future I am certain the both of us will ascertain to request insurance on all incomming and outgoing parcels. When Australia Post are able to process my lost parcel claim - I would then give you the proceeds from that claim which as I have already informed you is in the expected vicinity (but not guaranteed amount) of $61 Australian Dollars. I believe this to be the fairest and most equitable way to proceed for both of us.

      I will be suitable chastened for not insisting there be insurance by losing both the head and $60 USD and you will never make assumptions about insurance and tracking being included without being expresley stated in a sale.

      To reiterate I Will gladly give you a 50% refund of the purchase price ($130 USD) which is $65 US DOLLARS PLUS the cost of the shipping which was $11.50 USD so a total of $76.50 USD Immediately following the closure of the Paypal dispute.

    8. Official claim filed with AUstralia Post for lost/missing parcel 29th January 2010.
      Claim number was given to Paypal and is on thier record - Australia Post will investigate where the fault lies in the postage system if it has been "lost" in Australia or "lost" in France.

      H. I have given all your details (address, telephone number and name) as provided to me on the paypal payment to assist Australia Post to ascertain if the parcel was or was not delivered to the post office in France - once this outcome is known they will contact me to issue compensation/remuneration to an amount at their discretion or to re-deliver the parcel in the event it is located.

      H. I wish to know if the parcel is located and if we have already reached an agreement for an equitable refund amount if you would be happy for me to on-sell the head and remunerate the balance, or in reverse should you receive a refunded amount if you will reimburse me for my financial loss if you should receive the head in the post?

      Have you made a decision to accept my offer of a partial (50%+ shipping) refund at this time or do you wish to continue with the claim through Paypal? A quick and timely answer HERE publicly in the thread would be appreciated before the claim outcome is decided.
    9. The marketplace rules are made for sale advertised and concluded in DOA marketplace.
      Your announcement was on Ebay, I saw it only there ( didn't have access to the marketplace of DOA) and I bought your set on Ebay.

      Your thread have nothing to do HERE!
      This is really wicked from you...

      Moderators :
      Please kindly delete this thread which is out of rules.
      As you can see, this transaction was done out of DOA marketplace.
      You can check that I only had few post in december and that I couldn't access to the whitewings's sale thread.
    10. This is an unprecedented and unusual situation. Yes, we allow "problem threads" to be posted if an eBay sale was listed in our Marketplace and the buyer followed a link to the sale from here. How did the two of you come to realize you were both DoA members?
    11. Moderator :

      As Whitewings says :

      I came on DOA to see her dolls pictures and greeted her.
      I also gave her the name of my flickr account where she could see my other dolls and the set I bought if I've received it.
      I didn't hide anything...(which I would have certainly have done if I had any bad intentions...)

      Once again, I didn't followed the link to the sale from here.
      I wasn't allowed to the marketplace!

      This is an unprecedented and unusual situation but in that case the thread shouldn't have been written.
      I was friendly and shared personals informations without hidding or making secret about with Withewings, I didn't thought this problem would happened.

      Many thanks to do something about this really unfair matter.
    12. It is grossly unfair on both sides H. and you were not replying to my messages so really what would you have done I felt I had no other choice available to me to induce SOME communication from you? I was desperate to not be put into debt for doing what I said from the very start I was going to do - wich was mail your head using regular mail. I dont know if you can afford to throw away $141.50 but I certainly cannot, I do not expect you to "cop it all" but I was very very hopefull that you would accept a 50% refund so that both of us are sharing equally in what was neither your fault nor mine.

      I felt that because the head was received by me through DoA as a result of other DoA members buying items from Fairyland through me - AND the funds from the sale of the head on e-bay went to each of those 7 people that you might have had at least some understanding of why I am so upset about this. I took a vote from each of the participants s to what should be done with the gift items (A Shiwoo head was also sold at the same time and has been received) and it was decided since I had no use for them it would be sold ON EBAY to get the most exposure and the money would be returned to each of them for their postage. So whilst I was responsible for each part of the transaction the head in effect belonged to 8 people not just 1 and so did the money obtained from the sale.

      Had the head been bought direct (not through ebay) there is no way you would have been awarded a refund by Paypal - I honestly feel sick every time I turn on my computer knowing I still have to wait another 2 weeks before Paypal confirm what we already know - they will refund you in full.

      As you know the day you escalated to a claim I was at the hospital with an eye injury - the hose from my compressor to my pressure pot used for casting resin came loose whilst under pressure and hit me on the side of the face, bruising my eye (not the skin - the eye) quite badly.... I was even more horrified to come home to a claim notification without so much as a word from you asking if we could reach a deal to share responsibilty.

      Again you havent replied to my request - a simple yes or no. If its a no obviously you'll get all your money back which would be grossly unjust or you could please take some responsibility for your assumptions that $11.50 would include tracking and insurance even though it was stated in the listing that neither were included

      Im at a point where I am so exhausted by this and the lack of compassion from you - well its really hurtfull - especially after the EPIC amount of effort I have gone to over the past 6 weeks to find the head.

      Mods I have said pretty much all I can say without repeating myself - I leave it up to TenshiLo at this point to decide if she will accept the refund offer from me or if she will continue with the claim on Paypal.
    13. Thank you. Again, I'm going to restate - this is unprecedented. The buyer IS a DoA member and has been since September. The seller did use the DoA Marketplace to advertise the sale. The moderators are currently discussing this situation and the appropriateness of this thread in this subforum - please keep us apprised by pm of resolution.
    14. Paypal have officially closed the case in favor of TenshiLO - citing that my postage receipt was insufficient proof of postage. I repeatedly offered TenshiLO a refund of half and since her last post in this thread she has refused any private communication despite her asking specifically for private communication.

      I am incredibly disheartened by her lack of compassion on a personal level and found her treatment of me to be almost mercenary. Whilst I understand and respect that Paypal's "rules" enabled her to claim a full refund on an article she knew was neither insured or registered - the lack of moral and ethical practice on her part leads me to warn all other member against entering into any business with her unless you register and insure all parcels paid for through Paypal.

      On a personal note - TenshiLO, there was no reason for this to have happened, your lack of commuication forced my hand and I hope that you have found some satisfaction from this. I said in my last e-mail and I will say it again - shame on you!!

      Thank you Moderators for your guidance and I hope others can learn from this mistake.