Unresolved problem with angelsfeather (nina wong) - MEMBER BANNED

Dec 19, 2010

    1. I have a serious problem with angelsfeather (nina wong/wang ) now
      I sold one head to her
      she is chinese but stays in Australia for study (it will be an important issue later)
      I had several deals with her before and they went all smoothly
      so I believed this one would be so
      she paid the exact amount ($439) for the head I was selling for
      she wanted to make personal payment to save paypal fee and I took her request
      after her payment I shipped the head within 24 hours as I always did for my buyers at a market place
      but unluck happened to me suddenly after I shipped the head
      I tried to withdraw the money from my paypal balance as I did always
      but paypal started to hold the money $439 under the reason of 'suspected risky business '
      I asked them what made them think so and got answers they were suspecting the money was from unauthorized source
      I claimed to retract their action saying I already shipped my item and it's on the way to the buyer
      then they asked me to provide some evidence of shippment
      so I submitted ems No and tracking site which showed it's on the way to her
      at that time I thought it would be ok cause I just thought it's one of their rutine called 'monitoring for safety'

      but 3 -4 days later paypal reversed the money to her without any notice to me
      I strongly claimed why they sent the money back to her and got several emails they're suspecting the money was from unauthorized source and my evidence of shippment couldn't fufill their requirements
      during talking to paypal about this problem my head already arrived at her and I found the one of reasons paypal suspected our transaction was risky was the fact that her address I shipped and showed them as the evidence of shippment and her billing address on her paypal account was totally different
      as I mentioned above
      she usually stays in Australia for study and her account's from Australia
      but now she is in china , her hometown for holiday
      by her request I shipped my head to the address in china
      also during talking to her I found paypal asked her several financial documents to show where the money was from
      even though she submitted severals they couldn't fufill paypal's requirements
      and paypal limited her paypal account still now( my account has no problem at all )
      the worst thing was paypal reversed her other transactions as well as ours
      she sold some books to Australian buyers and got money as much as $640 in all
      but paypal sent the money back to the buyers of books she sold under the same reason that they did for our transaction
      I was hoping her paypal issue resolved soon and waiting for her to re-pay for my head cause she said she didn't have money at that time and if she got the money back from the Australian buyers she would pay for me surely and wanted me to wait for a while
      she said she was trying to contact her buyers to re-send money to her
      I believed what she said and just waited for it
      it passed 2-3 weeks already since she got my head
      her paypal issue is still on and she said she couldn't contact the buyers either
      but from 3-5 days ago she suddenly changed what she promised to me
      she said this was not her fault but paypal and she didn't need to re-pay me
      cause she never asked paypal to reverse the money and she was also victim of paypal
      her insists is once she paid me and I shipped the head that means our transaction has completed already
      after that reversing money by paypal isn't her business
      I was so upset and claimed her to send back the head if she didn't want to re-pay for it
      but she said she bought the head for somebody in china and already shipped to the person as soon as she got it so it's not at her hands now
      she got the money for the head from the person thr a bank in china so I asked her to re-pay for me by the money
      but she didn't accept it
      I'm thinking I have nothing to do with her & paypal issue or her & her buyers
      it's not my business
      I only care about our transaction
      if I were in her situation I would first send the money back to me leaving aside other issues cause they have nothing to do with our transaction
      but she always connected our transaction & her other issues
      I don't know why I had to be involved in her other transactions
      my opinion is if she doesn't want to pay for the head send it back to me or if she already sold the head to other person she should pay for it by the money she got
      I was hesitating to open the thread about her here
      cause I didn't want to fight her in the public space
      but her insists and mine is totally different
      below sentence was from her and showed what her thought was on our problem
      she gave me an example like below

      'It's like somebody took away your money and unfortunately the money is what I paid you, do you think I should repay it...?'

      reading this I found our thoughts had a big difference and couldn't be resolved by myself only
      I had courage to make this thread even though it would take more time & efforts from me
      I'm confident asking money back is fair and I'm doing the right thing
      I asked paypal to help me but they're only saying I was so unlucky and should have not shipped my item to her too soon and recommend to hold shippment for 3- 4 days after payment
      their saying made me feel bitter
      the most thing I'm upset is the fact she's saying for me to give up my money
      even though she is trying to get back the money from her buyers
      now she doesn't even feel sorry for me eventhough I did my best to help her paypal issue resolved
      it makes me crazy
      I'm sufferring from her unreasonable thoughts & bad attitude showing me (but she is thinking I'm insulting her)
      I'm wasting countless time to talk to her till now
      she ruins my life
      it's so stressful
      I don't want to argue with her anymore
      I don't care whose fault
      I don't care where this all happening was from
      I just want my head or money back from her
      that's all I want now
       
    2. Moment, I’m confused about what you thought; there are something important I think I’d better declare.

      1. It’s you suggested me using personal payment at the very first beginning. Since I’m new in using paypal(I opened my paypal account at the beginning of this year) and you have been working with paypal for 6 years, you should understand what’s the difference between “purchase” and “personal” payment function. Though I have to say, yes, I want to save a bit amount of money during the transaction, but I never thought such a thing will happened, if I knew our transaction is not under protection, I must not accept your suggestion!!

      2. I never ignored the message from you and paypal, I have tried my best to contact with paypal, and submitted all the valid documents as they request. I have followed their steps gave them all the documents they want for me, my photo ID, my bank statement and my credit card certification, the only thing I’m not be able to show is the property ownership certificate of where I live in Australia. As moment said, I’m a student, I don’t have income to buy a house, so I couldn’t help to prove where I live. I wish your understanding.

      3. I’m always standing your side dealing this trouble with paypal, because I do feel sorry about this. But you should know, while I paid you until the moment you got it, there’s nothing wrong with this transaction, and the money was successfully entered to your account at that time. After 2 days, the money was reversed, I don’t even know what’s happening at that time until you reminded me.

      Paypal took away the money twice, first is from your account and the second is from mine without a reason. I’m also a victim in their action. Therefore I don’t even know where the problem was coming from!! Since I have done my best to obey their request, I really don’t know what to do next. I think it’s not my fault because paypal sent me an email to tell me there’s nothing risks with my account and now they have reactive it. My account is still limited because it has a negative balance, after recharging, it will be fine as normal.

      4. Now, the head is not on my hand, and the money from the buyer was paid when I paid you. So I don’t have an ability to ask the head back. For the accident during our transaction, I do feel very sorry, but I don’t feel I should pay for paypal’s mistake (who knows why they did so???). I know paypal has done something unfair to you, but the money is not in my pocket and there’s nothing wrong with my account. If this is my fault, no matter paypal reversed the money back to others or still hold it, I assure I will return the same amount to you.

      What’s all I want to say, I wish your understanding, though you must be very annoyed to me. Sorry for all the trouble I brought again.
       
    3. oh my god..
      did I push you to make personal payment??
      did you feel any gulity about lying that?
      I'm always telling my items like price +ems+pp fee as a sale terms
      and then I give buyers options if they want to save the paypal fee I can take personal payment
      it's for buyers not me cause most of my buyers wanted it before and I just wanted to follow their hope for them !
      I've never been charged paypal fee myself and it's been always buyer's charge it means I do NOT care paypal fee so it's a lying I pushed you to make personal payment!
      and also it has nothing to do with our transaction !
      the problem of our transaction is very that you got my head without paying money!!
      you claim the money is not on your account
      I have an evidence paypal reversed it
      and then you have the money from ' the buyer' you sold the head to thr a bank
      do no tell a lie
       
    4. one more thing added
      you should search the very first PM or email of our first transaction
      I sent losts of emails you and trouble to find which one was the very first one from me to send to you so I can't capture it
      if you found the very first one you could read that I wrote to you as a sale terms , price+ems+pp fee and then this sentence ,
      if you want to save the paypal fee you can make personal payment I can take it
      as you see it's just option you should choose not push.. ok?
      I remember you chose personal payment for our very first transaction so I didn't need to ask the option after the 2nd transactions you should know that it was your CHOICE
      do not shift your responsibility to me
      I have nothing to do with your paypal issue
       
    5. angelsfeather ~ Can you please explain how you feel that moment has been paid for this head? What is missing from this story? It is not obvious how you understand that this transaction has been fair. You received the head and moment has not received payment. You are blaming this on PayPal but it is not clear why you don't believe that moment should be paid for the head you received.
       
    6. The very first beginning means the first time I use my new adding bank card, do you remember the time I paid you 309 dollars for a head, but after payment, paypal charge a $12 fee for the transaction, you suggest me reverse it and pay with paypal balance for personal payment purpose. That’s the first time I found out there must be something different on 2 kinds of payment function. Since I’ve paid you before and that’s all safe, I decided to pay you through personal payment from that time, and you accepted.
      Who knows why paypal blocked the payment and reversed it back this time???

      bytheway, I think moment shouldn't asked me pay for her lose, because it's 2 days later after I paid her, paypal reversed the money back, and I don't even know what's the reason why paypal did this.... Records shown that everything works well during the time I paid her. So I feel that its it's not my fault to pay for this accident.
       
    7. I have to say, the money entered into her paypal account immidiately after I paid her, our transaction details on my paypal shown that our transcation has completed that day and moment told me she got the money already, so that's why she ship the head to me.
      Two days later, the money has been reversed, but I assure I never asked it back!! And I used the paypal balance to paid her this time, so there's nothing wrong with my bank as well.
       
    8. my paypal statement shows our first transaction was for $250 by e-check dated Jan, 20 , 2010
      where was the amount $309 you insisted from?
      there was one transaction for $309 which was done at Nov 10 as our 8th transaction
      did you mean that?
      even there is no record I returned the money to you on the transaction
      there is only one record I returned the money to you and it was done at Nov 19, as our 9th transaction and I remember it
      I knew she had wanted to make personal payment to save the fee so I gave her total amount excluding paypal fee for it but paypal charged the fee cause she didn't know her china paypal account couldn't send money for personal purpose at the time (she had been using her Australian account but her limit of money had been excess so she opened her china account for the 9th transaction and it was the first time to sending money using it ...she said so )
      so I told her paypal charged the fee and if she wanted me to return the money and to try it again I would do for her
      then she said 'yes' and I reversed it
      did I miss something from my paypal statement??
      as I told you already I charge paypal fee to the buyers for all of my items
      it means it doesn't matter for me which payment they're choosing
      it was your choice ..don't shift your responsibility to me
      I have several experience to return money for my buyers as well as her
      some buyers wanted to make personal payment to save the paypal fee which I charged them for so gave them total amount excluding paypal fee if they wanted it but sometimes they made a mistake and paypal charged fee
      whenever it happened I always asked them if they wanted me to return the money and try it again or for paying the fee
      if they wanted to be returned I gave them one more opportunity to try even if it took my time
      it was all for buyer's convenience not for myself cause I respect their preference
      I don't think I'm the one who has to be blamed for that
      back to the point...
      so did you mean you barely knew there was two buyer's options for payment from my sale terms after our 8th transaction??
      what is your point?
      is it why you won't re-pay for my head ?
      why I have to waste my time to search all of the transactions between you & I to answer your nonsense?

      I can't count how many times I'm telling you the same story
      I don't care what issue you have with paypal
      I don't care what is going on you & your buyers
      I only care about my transaction!!!
      if you really sold the head to the other person you should re-pay me by the money you got from the person who has it now
      you must have had the record of money between you & the person if your story is true
      show me the record including the date
      if you fail to show it to me you must send my head back right now
      if your insist turns out to be true you must re-pay me by the money you got
      I'm so tired of listening your blame on others
      please stop saying unclear excuses and do you duty!
       
    9. If the money was refunded to you in error, angelsfeather, why didn't you send the money back to the seller? This means that you have received money for the doll that should have gone to the seller. If you do not pay the seller for the doll that you received, the moderation staff considers the doll stolen and will act accordingly.
       
    10. below content was from paypal
      I will give this for an evidence that she was the very one who ruined our transaction even though she insisted she was a just victim of paypal
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Totally understand your question about the reversal of transaction
      PP-001-139-672-483.

      After checking, you received funds that were reported to be potentially
      fraudulent. In other words, we have received notice that the holder of
      the originating account may not have made the transaction, be it from a
      credit card, bank, or PayPal account.
      -------------------------------------------------------
      another content from paypal
      it was an answer for my question why they reversed money to the sender


      Thank you for contacting PayPal in regard to the payment reverse issue.

      Please be kindly informed that while we investigate the legitimacy of
      the funds in question, they will be placed into a temporary hold.
      Therefore, these funds will not be made available to you until we are
      able to verify that the funds in question are legitimate.

      After checking, we also found the transaction is off-ebay which not
      under PayPal's seller protection policy. As such, we can't guarantee
      protection for you under our Seller Protection policy. When it is
      determined that you have been the recipient of fraudulent funds, and
      that you have not followed our Seller Protection policy, we have to send
      the funds back to the person who had them fraudulently taken from them.
      I have included a link to our Seller Protection policy below for your
      review.


      ----------------------------------------------------------
      paypal can't help me anymore cause as their above mention
      sellers off e-bay can't be protected
      if angelsfeather doesn't even have conscience as a human being I will loose my money, $439
      please becareful of this person
      I will provide her private infos if they're needed
       
    11. Armeleia, actually I never got the money that was refunded in error by paypal, paypal did took the money away from moment's account but never gave back to me.I have asked about how to get the money back and the following is their answer, so things is not like you thought, I kept the money and moment's head at the same time...If I'm able to have that money, I assure I'll repay her, why not??! Dear nina,

      Thank you for contacting PayPal in regards to a recently reversed
      payment.

      After reviewing your account, I can see that you recently received two
      payments for $270.00 USD on 27/11/2010. These payments were reported as
      unauthorised and the payments were subsequently reversed back to the
      sender.

      As these payments were personal payments, we were unable to cover you
      under PayPal Seller Protection.

      Not all transactions are eligible for PayPal Seller Protection. If a
      transaction is eligible for PayPal Seller Protection, you’ll see
      ‘Eligible’ or ‘Partially eligible’ on your ‘Transaction Details’ page.

      To learn more about PayPal Seller Protection, click ‘Legal Agreements’
      at the bottom of any PayPal page, then click ‘User Agreement for PayPal
      Service.’

      I understand your frustration regarding this matter and regret any
      inconvenience this might have caused.



      Sincerely,
      Cian
      PayPal, an eBay Company
       
    12. [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      here are evidences that paypal sent back the money to her
      as I wrote already in the opening..
      she always connects our transaction & her other transactions paypal reversed too
      the money $270.00 is her other transaction (the one she sold her books to Australian buyers) NOT our transaction
      I have NOTHING to do with the transaction
      I don't know why she can't understand the 'point'
      she can't think logically ?or just pretending so??
      maybe there is no way to make her think logically
       
    13. angelsfeather : I'm asking you to show me the evidence you sold the head to the other person there
      you surely told me you had transaction thr a bank in china with the person you insisted to sell it to
      then you got the bank record
      show it to me
      if you don't want the record to be public here you email me with it
      otherwise I don't believe your insist and ask you to send back my head to me
       
    14. I'm adding one cause I found new fact
      I contacted the person she insisted to sell her books to to ask if she/he re-payed to her
      nina wong has sent a capture to me to show the money she payed for my head was reversed to the original sender (she sold books and payed for my head using the money)
      so I could know the email address (paypal address )of the buyer
      but I got a surprising answer from the person
      she said she got stolen her paypal account and lost money as much as 270Euro
      she made a notisfy to paypal and could get back the money
      now all mysterious thing has been cleared
      paypal was right...
      the money I got for my head from nina was 'fraud'
      that's why paypal reversed the money to the real owner of the paypal account
      the reason why this unluck accident happened to me was the very that nina wong payed the fraud money to me
      I emailed her
      but she said she didn't care if the money was fraud cause she surely sold the books to some buyers and she didn't care if the buyer payed to her using farud money and it's non of her business
      she won't pay for my head yet
      she even ignores my asking of showing her bank record to provide she sold my head to someone else
      I dare swear she is lying
      nina wong is a terrible person and she should be punished for it