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Standards of beauty and Fandom Fame

Jul 19, 2012

    1. I've been thinking recently of all the people within the hobby that have successfully taken their love for this hobby and made it into a career. People who have started their own doll making companies or become successful modders or faceup artists or tailors and have become quite famous amongst the community.

      I've also been thinking about those who were unsuccessful in the same thing or are making beautiful but unpopular things for BJD owners.

      What do you think separates the two kinds of artists? Time in the hobby, friends, or even skill? Also do you think that the BJD community's own collective standards of beauty help influence who is able to rise to the top and who can't? If so what do you think the standard of beauty for our community, specifically as it's very own subculture, is?

      Sorry if anything I said is unclear. I'm mainly just curious after reading articles on BJDcollecstasy.com about sculptors who make bjds. :)

      And of course, as usual, if this is a repeat of any thread feel I apologize and feel free to delete mods!
       
      #1 Unseenstars233, Jul 19, 2012
    2. I think a lot is taste. I've seen some amazing work that wasn't popular, and I've seen some "famous" artists/designers's works that I thought....weren't so good looking....

      I think skill IS a big part, but not always. If you have say, a seamstress that makes good but not great quality stuff, but does fashions in steampunk, lolita and cosplay, she's going to be more popular than say a seamstress that does great quality work but only makes a less popular style, like maybe cowboy or tribal wear. Ity can be as good or even better, but if it's not a style people really want, word doesn't spread.

      Length in the hobby is a big part too. I know some new artists will offer free services just to get their name out there or get practice. Having friends who can spread the word and brag about you helps too. A big part is patience.

      I DO think a certain standard of beauty or expectations can influence success. For example, seems there are a lot of innocent looking child dolls out there. I don't really care for child dolls at all, or that sweet innocent look. I think a big part of why I didn't get many faceup commissions when I used to take them was in part due to the fact that I focused on adult men, beards, thick eyebrows, etc when a big chunk of the community was wanting children, girls and girly boys. I also don't like perfect symmetry in faceups, I prefer realism, and many may see that lack of symmetry as a flaw.

      Customer service is also important. If you are friendly, fast to reply to PMs, completing and sending out commissions in a reasonable time period and at a reasonable cost, more people will be interested. You could be the best artist on DoA, but if you take a year to complete a commission with little to no communication, people are not going to be very interested.

      Overall, I think it's a combo of things. Who you know, who will spread the word, skill, service standards and if you are creating what people want and keeping up with trends. :)
       
      #2 CloakedSchemer, Jul 19, 2012
    3. I agree cloackedschemer. When you think about it, it's a certain kind of standard beauty that brings us together in the bjd hobby, especially here on DOA where dolls outside that set of rules are off topic. Though there is admittedly a lot of variety between collector's taste since BJDs are so customizable (is that a word? lol) and personal, few bjd company's wander outside that standard. Those that do. like Doll Chateau, use that oddness as a selling point for their dolls. They sit right on that boundary in between something new and the old familiar aesthetics, and that's a different middle ground to find. I know I defiantly want one of their odd little MSD bodies, but when the SD's first came out they were just too different from the rest of my collection to ever fit in.
       
      #3 Unseenstars233, Jul 20, 2012
    4. Between successful and unsuccessful? It's purely due to what's popular--or as CloakedSchemer says, taste. People buy what they like, basically.

      Other things DO come into play. For instance, in order to buy, you need to know about it. And trust it. So, a longer time in business can help people know about the company or customizer or tailor more... and the more people buy and talk and show, the more others will hear about them. And some people are influenced by "peer pressure" or just what other people are doing/buying. But most buy what they like--period.

      Quality can influence things, but as CloakedSchemer points out, it doesn't matter if the dolls you make or clothes you sew aren't popular--or what a lot of people want to buy.

      However--we are in a world where niche markets are possible. And BJDs themselves are a niche/boutique market. Mass-production is just not where it's at here, so popularity just means more sales than some others, but others can still find people whose tastes and desires are in accord. Selling less does not necessarily mean "unsuccessful." It just means you're selling to a smaller market, but you may be making enough money to suit you!

      Talking about standards of beauty in the greater culture or among bjd owners, I think, can be interesting, but really is a different subject. People are just buying what they like. Why they like what they like is something else!

      BJDs attract some people because they can make a doll that ONLY they want--something of their own vision--their own character that they don't see anywhere else. It is possible to have this with modded BJDs.

      It is also possible to have a vision that not only one person wants, but that many people want. They can sculpt and sell dolls or whatever. The only difference between the two is that more people will want some dolls/styles, other things will be more individual--special or wanted by one or a few people. That's all. And with BJDs you can have both--something unique and enjoyed by a few, and something that is liked by more than a few...
       
      #4 april, Jul 21, 2012
    5. Hrmmm... I think it's not really standards of beauty but a combination of luck and also the ability to appeal to a mass mob. Humans are all very similar and have the same psyche. Certain things appeal to all people (or most) while others appeal to a select few. I think it might be that. I know that I wouldn't hire a goth type face up artist, as I have no interest in my resin crew having a goth or punk style (it doesn't suit their characters). But otherwise, it's very popular among some people in the hobby. But it doesn't stand anywhere close to the popularity of natural face ups, which are the most popular. I think it's sort of like that. It's just a certain quirk that's subconsciously more accepted than others which makes them popular.

      Did I even answer the right question lol?
       
      #5 HoushiChan, Jul 21, 2012
    6. Basically, what April said. Go reread her whole post, it says it all. It boils down to just that.

      It sounds like the OP wants to come up with some magic Popularity Formula. You can't quantify popularity. This scene has as many standards of quality/beauty as there are individual members. And it's a big enough scene that there are styles & trends for everyone: big muscular male dolls are popular, little fluffy girl dolls are popular, baby chibi dolls are popular, fantasy dolls are popular, fashion-doll style woman dolls are popular, androgynous prettyboy dolls are popular, realistic dolls are popular, heavily stylized dolls are popular, historical costumes are popular, goth fashions are popular, WalMart fashions are popular, etc.etc.etc.

      There are a lot of people who love nothing more than complaining that whatever they like is the minority, even if it's not, and complaining that they're being repressed by the rest of the community or unfairly being denied chances at popularity (or whatever the true kernel of that complaint is; it's never quite clear to me). Seems to me like all the time one spends breaking one's neck trying to figure out what's popular.... and loudly begrudging the things one personally dislikes for being popular with others.... could be better spent doing what one really likes to do with one's own dolls. Find your niche that contains the things you like to do/see, and let everyone else do what they like to do.
       
      #6 JennyNemesis, Jul 21, 2012
    7. Actually, JennyNemesis, I'm interesting in the anthropological breakdown of the hobby as a subculture that is centered around individuality and beauty. I thought it was in interesting subject and wanted to see what other's thoughts were. That's all :)

      Perhaps I should have asked 'How does the standards within the hobby effect how we interact with each other and how we react to each other's dolls" but I thought that might be too general. So I narrowed it down to one thing we all have in common. Buying BJD stuff :lol:
       
      #7 Unseenstars233, Jul 21, 2012
    8. Anthropologically this scene is no different from any other self-defined group that rejects the Other. How do individual standards of beauty affect how we relate to each other? We coagulate into factions and say "Everyone else likes something I don't" and "It's not fair that something I like isn't as popular as this other thing I don't like". Every week I'm reading some new Help Help I'm Being Repressed complaint from someone who thinks they're the only person in the world who likes heterosexual couples or men with beards or innocent babies or brown shoes or neutral faceups or what-have-you. It gets tiresome.

      But having so many factions in one scene means that there is really plenty for pretty much everyone, and really little reason for all the discontent. Nobody's out to penalize any artists just because they're new on the scene; people don't buy what they're not seeking. If people in your niche like your stuff, they'll buy.

      Re "fame", it too depends on your niche-- the names you see over & over, the styles you see as most frequent, entirely depends on where/what you're looking at day after day. There are people who're quite 'famous' for making/doing things with girl dolls or girl clothes that I've never even heard of, because I don't move in those circles at all. I never look at girl-doll pictures or where they get their clothes or makeup done. So, somebody a girl-doll collector thinks is 'famous' is a total nobody to me, and vice versa. Again, go back to April's post, because it really is all there.

       
      #8 JennyNemesis, Jul 21, 2012
    9. I'm kind of hearing "why isn't my faceup shop popular?" no offense. I'd say the formula for success=
      1)tons of market research (what is highly sought after and not readily available)
      2)lots of advertising
      3)amazing customer service & keeping up with your customers (loyal customers will spread the word faster than any advertising)
      4)skill at what you're doing (faceups, sewing, etc...) there is a ton of competition from other mid level wannabes out there, you have to outstrip the pack
      5)quick turnaround time and prices people are happy to pay for the quality of the item (you have to find that sweet spot where the price is just low enough that you will sell a lot yet be making a significant profit on each thing.
      6)profit!
       
      #9 Nefla, Jul 21, 2012
    10. I agree JennyNemesis. I suppose the separation is just easier to see since BJD collecting is a niche of it's own within the larger doll collecting fandom. The sheer number of different interests and options available within this hobby makes it a bit like a huge melting pot of interests. While the complaining can be annoying, the large diversity is very interesting.

      Nelfa I sort of assumed that's what people were thinking when JennyNemesis said I was looking for a formula for popularity. I take no offense :3. I know why my faceups aren't popular, since I'm not amazingly skilled and not very active on DOA. That's why I don't charge much and I only do it for fun and practice.

      As for what you said in answer to the question that sounds like the perfect formula for a new BJD company. It's also a great insight into why Bobobie and Resinsoul are very popular. Their customer service and advertising through happy customers is amazing.
       
      #10 Unseenstars233, Jul 21, 2012
    11. Sometimes you can be the nicest, most competent vendor possible, and still your things won't sell. Could be your personal esthetic isn't the most central one at the moment, or the timing is bad - something/someone else has just exploded onto the scene and is taking everyone's bucks. Or there are too many already-established people doing the same sort of thing you're doing.

      And sometimes it just takes time to attract some customers - and then REPEAT customers, because those are the ones any business needs to survive.

      The BJD hobby is a bouquet of niche markets all clustered together; I don't think there's one single "standard of beauty" that will apply to all of them. Foremost is the doll preference - both the seller's and the potential buyers' - and then a whole cascade of secondary standards and preferences until vendor and client find each other.

      Lol, "Fandom Fame" - don't get me started. Every hobby I've ever been in has had Big Names and those who aspire to be BN's, even within the smallest of groups. JennyNemesis said it best - there are so many niches in this overall hobby, that a BN among one coterie might be unknown elsewhere. It IS one hobby, though, where fame comes from actually producing - the more of your products that are walking around (metaphorically speaking), the more likely it is that someone somewhere will either remember or recognize your name (even tho that might not translate into purchasing dollars at all!).

      Urm, and Bobobie and Resinsoul became popular because they produced a decent quality doll for much less than other companies. Their "niche" eagerly supported them; the extra-effort customer service was sweet icing, not the cake itself!
       
      #11 hobbywhelmed, Jul 21, 2012
    12. There are a lot of decent low priced dolls now, but they're not nearly as popular as bbb/rs. What sets bbb/rs apart is their amazing customer service and wide availability through vendors. RS/BBB will bend over backwards for you, even custom casting a doll with its' parts different colors (like fantasy parts 1 color, body another) or putting a girl head on a boy body, etc...at no extra charge. BBB/RS treat their customers well and have developed a very loyal and vocal fanbase (who tell everyone they know how great the company is) because of it.
       
      #12 Nefla, Jul 22, 2012