Unsatisfactory transaction with DiSpy

Aug 19, 2009

    1. I sold a Beauty White Sweet Dreams Myu body to DiSpy on layaway. She asked nicely for a discounted price ($150 instead of $175) and I agreed. She paid promptly each week and I have absolutely no complaints in that department. When she finished paying the doll off I shipped the doll off and waited to hear back from DiSpy when she received the doll.

      Now before I go into what happened next I think I need to refer to my sales thread. Here it is (please scroll down to post 3):

      http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316085

      As you can see from the pictures and description, I stated that this body was yellowed (but not to a sickly degree), and provided clear pictures of the yellowing and the state of the body. The doll was pretty grimy when I first received her and the first thing I did was clean her thoroughly with a Magic Eraser and some Windsor & Newton Brush Cleanser. All the grime came off with hardly any trouble, and since I received her in late April I have barely touched the body. I ended up buying a pureskin body for the head and so this body has sat covered up in the corner of my dark living room until I mailed it out.

      Obviously it's hard just believing words from a random person on the forum, so I also have my original hi-resolution RAW files from my DSLR that are definitive proof that the body has no staining. For those who are not photography-savvy, some digital cameras (mostly DSLRs) can take photos in a format called RAW, or a digital negative. These types of files cannot be edited in Photoshop or related software (other than color and contrast) until they are converted to PSD, JPG, or another editable file type. I can forward my RAW files to a moderator or other neutral party in order to prove that the condition of this body was exactly as I stated on my sales thread. Even though the body didn't need it, I went over it again with a Magic Eraser the night before I sent it out to make absolutely certain there were no problems.

      However, when I received a reply from DiSpy she said that the body was "filthy" and had black marks all over! I was extremely shocked to read this. She also said the body was yellower than I described, which I do not believe. I don't think DiSpy realizes that Volks white has a yellow cast to it even when new and even in brand new condition it won't match a lot of other company's white skin. As someone who deals with web images every day as a living, I know that every monitor displays coloring differently, but that does not mean that I think I'm responsible for her thinking the body was only "a bit yellowed" as I never said that in any PM or in my sales thread. That's why I provided a comparison with the newer Volks Pureskin (which as I already stated has a yellowish cast to it even when new) and tried to describe the color. Plus, DiSpy even said to me in a PM that she didn't care if the body was yellowed or not.

      Let's return to the black marks. As those marks were not on the doll when it was in my posession, I asked if the box had been damaged during shipping. DiSpy said the box arrived in good condition. I was very careful in packing this body, since last year I did not pack a doll so carefully and I was very lucky it was not damaged. The buyer was kind enough to be understanding and explain to me what I did wrong (as I did not have much experience in shipping dolls at the time) and I have been incredibly careful with packaging ever since. Myu's body was packed into her original silver box with pillows and her hands and feet were bubblewrapped. The silver box was then placed into the shipping box I received when I bought a Volks SDC Sora, and Volks designs their shipping boxes to perfectly fit their doll boxes to prevent the doll from moving during shipping. So unless the post office really bashed the heck out of this package, I don't think this body could have moved much. That's why I asked if the box had been damaged.

      Since the box was not damaged in transit and I have proof the doll had no marks while in my posession, I can only assume the black marks were put there by DiSpy herself. I understand this is a serious accusation to make, but as I have basically been branded a liar through her PMs when I represented this body correctly I have no other choice. I think DiSpy did not look at my sales thread closely or did not research the color of Volks white skin, and therefore did not realize how yellow the body would be. Also, why did she not PM me immediately when she received the body? If I had received an item significantly not as described as she claims, I would have PMd the seller immediately to resolve the problem.

      Please see the following thread for the PM record. In it you can find anything I have quoted from DiSpy above.
       
    2. Here is the PM record.

       
    3. This has continued further because I asked for her to send the body back, not wanting to deal with her any further. I think the PMs of this discussion speak for themselves.


      The outfits she offered to me looked very cheap and not near the quality of the outfit I sent with the doll. I'm not going to take something of lesser value when I'm trying to do this person a favor.
       
    4. I've PM the mods about this... i'm not even going to dignify your accusations that I did damage to a doll on purpose to get my money back... that's just absurd, and anyone who knows me (or checks my reputation here on DoA, or in my feedback thread) would know how ridiculous you sound.

      I've been nothing but nice to you, and you've done nothing but yell and accuse me of things.

      So we'll see what the staff says, and i'll revisit this later.
       
    5. I also have a very good reputation and feedback thread here, as well as perfect feedback on eBay (narnie1960).

      Before this happened I would have thought something like this was absurd, but no longer.

      I have not yelled at you at all. I have been very calm this entire time.

      I am waiting for a moderator to get back to me about verifiying my RAW files, which I believe will prove what I am saying is true. I would not start a thread like this unless I had very good reason, as I have very rarely had any problems on this board. I'm sorry it had to come to this, but I do believe you are lying.
       
    6. Firstly, I want to understand how Tenshi thinks i'm "scamming" her by not wanting to take a $50 loss on this, and so asking if I could either keep the "free" kimono that Tenshi threw into the box or that she split the return shipping cost with me?!?

      Secondly, Tenshi offered me a refund... I was very polite in my first post complaining about the status (yes it's "filthy"... I stand by that) of the doll, and never asked for a refund. Tenshi made me that offer me on that same evening.

      Also, I want to explain to people... that she claims I should have sent a PM immediately if I was that upset. Well, the body arrived Friday evening... I opened it Saturday, but was very busy all weekend and didn't get around to PM'ing her until Monday. I'm a very busy person... i'm an adult with responsibilities... plus, I wanted to ask a few people for advice before I sent a PM to Tenshi about how I was unhappy.

      Now... as to the references about the RAW images... all images are editable, I don't care what you say... I am a professional and I can tell you for a fact that there's no indisputable way to prove that you didn't edit them. THAT SAID... I never accused Tenshi of editing them... I simply think that those pictures were old and not a clear representation of the current quality of the doll. Besides... in her first PM to me, she told me that the body has been listed on the marketplace for a very long time.

      I will post all the many, many conversations that she conveniently left out of her quotes above later on today.

      In her accusations she claims that I "did not research the color of Volks white skin"... well, I know exactly how Volks white skin yellows, because I have had many go thru here in the past, and in fact have TWO in my possession right now. I will even take pictures to prove this and post them here later.

      I will also explain later on how I clearly stated that I didn't care about how the body was a bit yellow, because I intended to have it "creatively" airbrushed to match an artists' head that I have been un-successful in finding a match for anyway. (I have witnesses to this.) My comments about the yellowing were that I did not want to sand out the black marks (and scratches) because in the past my friend has tried to sand yellowed volks dolls (and I was there at the time), and unless you sand it TOTALLY evenly it becomes a very uneven and seriously sickly looking doll (because of the uneven-ness... not because of the fact that it's yellow).

      I can't see how Tenshi would accuse me of "putting the black marks on the doll" in an effort to try and scam her. I'm the only one that would loose out by sending the body back to (which Tenshi offered to let me do, I never asked for it).

      I can only assume that Tenshi is accusing me of these things in an effort to tarnish my credibility here on DoA. I was more than willing to work this all out privately... and even stated that I didn't WANT to leave her negative feedback... but now I take that back... because she decided to try to publicly and wrongfully accuse me of doing terrible things.

      I have an excellent reputation, that I have worked long and hard to establish. Tenshi is attempting to tarnish that, and I will not just sit idl-y by and allow her to do so. That said, I do not want to stoop to her level, so I will clearly state facts, and my side of the story, and leave it at that.

      ---

      I talked to the mods, and was advised to put my side of the story into this thread, and post all of my pictures and correspondences... then leave her negative feedback and move on.

      So that is what I am going to attempt to do.

      When I get home from work tonight, I will start posting photo's and pasting the correspondences that she (conveniently) left out of her complaints.
       
    7. I have said time and time again that the reason I believe you are scamming me is that those marks were not on the doll in the first place. That's why I will not be held responisble for shipping, because you damaged this body.

      I made an offer I considered fair under the circumstances (see above paragraph).

      Actually, it took me PMing you to hear something back, and that wasn't until Tuesday, not Monday. You were on the forums several times over the weekend; I checked because I was anxiously waiting for word whether you received it or not.

      I don't deny that the doll has been on the marketplace for a long time, I think I put it up in late April or early May. But I have not used the body since then. I received another body for that head almost immediately after I put this body for sale and it has not been moved from its corner of the living room since I received the other body. If something had changed regarding the doll, I would have changed my sales pictures. Why would I intentionally ruin a doll I was trying to sell? It makes no sense.

      In further proof of this, I will post photos of the head I originally was selling with the body when I am at my home computer tonight. Unlike the body, the head did have stains on it. These were extremely faint stains that most people would probably not even notice, yet I still posted clear pictures of these imperfections just to make sure that potential customers would know.

      Also, if there is a way of Photoshopping blemishes out of a Camera RAW file, I have not heard about it despite being a professional graphic designer for 3 years and having a degree in Studio Art with an emphasis on photography.

      If I left important conversations out I apologize, but I went through my PMs and felt that I post everything that was applicable.

      I apologize for initially not understanding your comment about uneven yellowing. I read it the first time as you thinking the doll was unevenly yellowed, and that was a mistake. However, I don't think that makes much difference to the situation.

      If you are not concerned with the yellowing then why did you say so in the PMs after you received the doll? And once again, I never said the doll was a bit yellow. I said it was yellowed but not to a sickly degree.

      This is the first time you've brought up scratches. Why have you not mentioned that until now? You're editing your story.

      One thing I want to know is why you're so adamant that the black marks have to be sanded out. If I received a doll with black marks, the first thing I'd do is see if a quick rub with a Magic Eraser would take it off, since 95% of the time that solves the problem. (And Windsor & Newton Brush Cleaner will take care of the 4% that won't be budged by the Magic Eraser. I've removed plenty of stains, blushing, and faceups and this seems to be my experience.) It seems that you really want to prove that these stains are permanent when it doesn't seem that you've actually tried to remove them. This is one of the big reasons I'm convinced you're lying.

      No, I would be the one losing out. You forget that I would be accepting back a doll that could be irreversibly damaged while not in my posession, AND I would have to go to the trouble of trying to sell it again.

      Do you really think I wanted to take it this far? I don't care about tarnishing someone's credibility. That takes more effort and time than I would like to devote. I absolutely would not have posted this thread had I not felt it was necessary.

      If someone is certain their buyer is trying to scam them, then I believe it is appropriate to make a thread here and bring it in the open. I would not hold it back and risk other people going through this terrible anxious state I have been in for the past 2 days.

      And I will ask this question one more time: if these stains (and now magically scratches!) were not there when I had the doll, and the doll was not damaged in shipping, how else could they get there besides your own hands?
       
    8. First i'm going to quote Tenshi's original sales thread here, for reference in case it's deleted later... note that I saved her pictures to my account so that they don't disappear either.

       
    9. Please.. I was working with graphics and designing websites while you were probably still in diapers... the only reason my degree is not in a related field is because they didn't HAVE such things back then. Don't try to impress me (or those reading this) with your credentials.

      You can clearly see them in the set of pictures that I showed you.. and I did state that it was not just surface dirt... it was deep black stains in the resin.

      Here is the PM that I sent to you (after you asked me for pictures), where I clearly state so...

      ...and lastly:
      Do you not think that I tried that... of course I did... on Monday when I re-opened the box after putting it aside for the weekend. I tried it on one of the spots, and that's how I found that it was not just superficial black marks but "actually scratched into the resin" (as I stated in the second PM where you asked me for pictures). After seeing that when attempting to clean up the very first spot... I immediately STOPPED and didn't try anymore.

      Now... i'm going to go back to posting *my* side of the story... if you don't mind?!?
       
    10. Okay, please, both of you need to state openly what you would like to see as Resolution and then take it back to pm. Thank you.
       
    11. You're right, I did read the scratches part incorrectly.

      I'm not going to stop posting if I feel I need to rebut things you have said.

      Also, I did not just rattle off my credentials just to seem all high and mighty as you seem to assume. But as you don't seem to even REALIZE the difference between a RAW file and a "raw" JPEG, I wanted to reiterate that point.

      There's no reason to talk down to me.
       
    12. Ok, the family is fed, and the laundry is started... so it's time for me to start posting my evidence (I feel like a defense lawyer... lol). I've got to make this fast tho (and can expand on it later), because i'm leaving town tomorrow morning for the weekend (we're going house hunting out-of-state), and have to pack the entire family up tonight.

      Let's start with a bit of back-story.

      In my collection I have mostly Volks Dolls & Artists' Sculpts. I love supporting artists (as several here on DoA can attest to the ways i've helped them), and have had one artists' head in particular that i've had a hard time finding a semi-decent resin match for a body for (an "Ashbet's MAU" kitty head). I go to a lot of conventions and meetups (at least 1-2 a month) and have been dragging this head with me to all of them since March. About a month ago, I decided that I was just going to give up trying to match the resin color and find any color body, then commission an air-brusher here on the forums to make it into a "calico" colored body. (see pictures below and you will understand) I then did some research to pick the exact TYPE of body that I wanted, and decided on a Volks WS MSD Girl. (I liked the chunky-ness, and am mostly an MSD collector, so I preferred that size... plus it reminded me of an MDD's proportions, and since it's based off of an Obitsu head, and DD heads go on MDD bodies... well, you get the idea.)

      So I searched the MSD Marketplace here on DoA for a Volks MSD Girl in WS... and Tenshi's was the only one that came up. Now, I wasn't concerned about the yellowing, as i've had yellowed Volks WS dolls before (in fact I have two right now... and I'm going to add pictures of one below to show what I expect from an older yellowed Volks WS color-wise), and was going to "calico" airbrush the body anyway (or rather commission it to be done... i'm not that talented myself, trust me... lol).

      Her sales thread clearly stated that the body was a bit yellowed (and I never said that she used the words "a bit yellowed", I simply went by the photo's shown to me in which it looked "a bit yellowed"... which in fact I believe was a mis-representation, because I too can put it next to equivalent dolls and come up with a totally different picture!!), and that she was throwing in a "free" kimono to the buyer. I have quoted that sales thread here for reference in case she takes it down later. She posted pics with a newer volks body (an arm actually) and next to the newer one it didn't look THAT yellowed to me (it looked "a bit yellowed"). Again... as I stated above, who knows how old her sales pics were, and who knows how old the "newer" arm in the comparison pic was. It's her word against mine... but i'm digressing.

      So I PM'd her about her sales thread, she replied that it's still available (in fact it's been there for a while), and would I like to purchase it?!? I replied that I would like to offer her $150 instead of the $175 that she was asking, and could I pay it off over XX payments on XX days, and how much would shipping be to my address. She agreed to my terms and said shipping would be $25 (which I thought was a bit high, but didn't complain at the time, since she was nice enough to let me do a layaway). I paid off the doll as agreed (even paid her it off early), and Tenshi said she would clean it up and mail it out... she even put the tracking info in my last PayPal payment.

      The doll arrived on a Friday evening, and I didn't get around to opening it until Saturday... but at that time I was headed out the door, and a bit confused as to what had happened... so I put the box back away, and PM'd a few friends' to ask their opinion on what I should do. I didn't WANT to leave negative feedback because the transaction itself had gone so smoothly... but I honestly could not leave GOOD feedback because of the condition that the doll arrived in. I was stuck!

      I was told the best thing to do was to contact the seller as "It's generally best to try to talk something out first.", so I took that advice and so I explained my dilemma to Tenshi. She immediately got all defensive and demanded pictures... so I took them (the links that she posted), and sent them to her.

      This is where she started to get mean... she states that "I have not yelled at you at all. I have been very calm this entire time."... well what do you call talking to me in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS, and bolding certain sentences?!?

      Here's just ONE example (again, that was conveniently left out):
      I have tried to compromise... I asked to keep the "free" kimono because it was originally made by a friend of mine and she doesn't make them anymore.... and I wanted to get something out of my $50 that I would be loosing if I sent the body back to Tenshi. She clearly stated in her sales thread that it was a freebie, and I didn't think it would be a problem.

      I offered to send her several items in exchange because she told me she wanted the kimono back because she didn't want to have to try and re-sell the doll naked. She said above:

      Well, I notice that she neglected to post the picture I sent her... there were 2 jackets that were professionally made (with tags and all) and a handmade skirt that someone gave me to go with the jackets, a dress that I bought from a doll company, and another dress that I purchased from a commission off of DoA (it's not a brand, but it is very nice).

      [​IMG]

      ---

      Now, I think that's enough back-story... i've taken a TON of pics tonight, and am going to post them in a moment. I think that the pictures speak for themselves.
       
    13. Please pm a moderator when you have factual information and a suggested resolution to post into this thread, or to alert the mods that you have, perhaps, come to a resolution via pm, and the thread will be reopened.
       
    14. All right, here is my last post on the subject. I don't think there's anything else I need to add. Will the mods be posting this to the thread, or will you be unlocking it to allow me to post it? I don't mind either way.

       
    15. I've been in the car all day traveling to our family vacation, and just now arrived at my sister-in-laws and am reading this... i'd like to comment on a few things said here... and then later tonight I will add the photo's that I meant to post yesterday.

      ...and I re-state my previous statement:
      Like I said... those pictures are from last APRIL, and I believe they were not an accurate representation of the CURRENT quality of the doll when I purchased it. I made my first payment on July 29th, and my last payment on August 11th.

      A WHOLE LOT can happen to a doll between April (when she took those pictures) and August (when I bought it)!!

      --

      I can (and will) prove that that is a completely false statement (and misleading, because photoshop is not the only photo editor that there is). I will even provide some links!!

      --

      Regarding photo's of other head... that is completely and totally irrelevant to this matter.

      --

      Regarding your proof about the rubbing on the box... I repeatedly confirmed that this was not what happened because the body was completely wrapped in bubble wrap. So there was no way it could have rubbed on the box.

      I have not watched the video yet, because I am on my sister-in-laws' computer and would prefer not to make noise while everyone is eating dinner.

      --

      How would *I* like this resolved? Well, *I* would like a full apology for these completely false and utterly absurd accusations. I can only assume that these accusations (and the totally MEAN spirit of this whole thing) was just some attempt to avoid responsibility by "mud slinging" and attempting to tarnish my reputation.
       
    16. (I have a bit more time before everyone is done with dinner here, so I will start posting the photo's that I took yesterday and uploaded to my photobucket account last night.)

      Just for the record I am totally DISGUSTED that I have to spend my family vacation on the computer proving my case while everyone else is in the other room enjoying themselves!!

      ---

      So, to start with... Here are my photo's of the box that the body arrived in. You can clearly see that there was no damage to the box in shipping.

      AGAIN... My pictures were taken YESTERDAY (August 19th), hers were taken in APRIL (and I believe were not an accurate representation of what the doll looked like when I agreed to purchase it on JULY 29TH!

      Outer Box:
      [​IMG]

      Yes, I opened it from the bottom... the tape on the top was too thick (from re-use) to attempt to cut thru:
      [​IMG]

      Her silver box INSIDE the outer box:
      (Note there is room for the box to slide, so her statement that it fit perfectly was false.)
      [​IMG]

      The pillows inside the silver box:
      [​IMG]

      ...now at this point. I wish I was still new enough to the hobby to where I still took box opening pictures of every single doll that I buy, but unfortunately... I only do this once in a while anymore... so I can't show you the bubble wrapped mummy that was inside. However, she and I both agree that the doll was well-wrapped.
       
    17. Ooops, the last picture should have been:
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    18. Now, later on I will show pictures of the head I bought the body for... and you will be able to CLEARLY see for yourselves that I was not trying to color match anything, and so her reasoning that I am trying to scam her because the doll was more yellow than I thought is totally irrelevant.

      However, before I show you that (which I believe will prove to anyone that she is false in her assumptions)... I want to show you the CURRENT condition of this doll. Here are the pictures that I took YESTERDAY. Verses her photo's that were taken THREE MONTHS before I agreed to purchase the doll.

      I believe these pictures speak for themselves, so I will not comment on each one... I will however say that I did not edit these photo's in any way. (...and that when taking them I found even more un-disclosed damage... such as the bad neck sanding attempt.)

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    19. More:

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      (there's still more)
       
    20. More:

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      (There's still a bunch more to say, and more "proof" to come... but I have to run now... i'll be back in a few hours.)