Volks is making the forum confusing (for me)

This topic again...


1)Why do we continue to use terms that confuse the heck out of non-Volks people?

Answer: At the time, Volks Superdollfie was the first modern Ball-Jointed Doll to gain in popularity. And had such popularity in the early days of the hobby that collectors started calling similar dolls "SD"s when it comes to the different size.

2) Where can people like me find something that strictly points out EVERY single SD-whatever term and its size in centimeters?

Answer: Not all Stores have this option, sometimes they are listed as 1/3 sized or sometimes as "fits 65cm male"

3) Do you like the Volks terms better because they're more specific or something?

Answer: See answer #1.

 

1)Why do we continue to use terms that confuse the heck out of non-Volks people?

I think for the most part, it's because a majority of the people here were around when Volks was the main doll brand. And truly, to me it's still easier to refer to 60cm dolls as SD since that's the terminology that was around when I first joined the community. 1/3, 1/4, etc makes me have to stop and think a moment.


2) Where can people like me find something that strictly points out EVERY single SD-whatever term and its size in centimeters?

I recommend if you find something you like and want to know if it will work on your doll, go to the company site and find that dolls measurements and compare them to your own. For instance if it states that something is SD16 size, Google measurements for SD16.

3) Do you like the Volks terms better because they're more specific or something?

I personally do. Like I said, I'm used to those terms and know the sizes of Volks dolls. My RS girl wears SD16 dresses. Now I only like Volks terminology for clothing. When people sell a wig or shoes as SD size, it irks me as what they consider SD size could vary. Dolls all have different foot and wig sizes, even if they're all the same height.

 

Every hobby has its own terminology that is historical. Since Volks stared the hobby, the terminology is based on their dolls. This makes sense, as at the beginning, people sewing for dolls were sewing for Volks. And even as other dolls came onto the scene, Volks were still the most popular and still the most bought for, so that's what most people making clothes for sale targeted. Again, very logical. So while you might find the terminology confusing or even ridiculous, it came into being for entirely practical reasons-- because for a very long time, those sizes are what hobbyists were primarily sewing for.

I have never owned a Volks doll, but the sizing terminology has never been a problem for me. So no, not all non-owners find the terminology confusing. SD girls are meant to resemble 10 year olds. If you think about a typical ten year olds body, there is not much hip or breast development. As a result, their waists are proportionately bigger than more mature dolls. So an SD outfit is likely to be too big in the waist compared to a doll with late teen or adult curves. And it may not fit at the bust. SD13 is meant to be a 13 year old girl. More developed than a ten year old, but not as curvy as a late teen or adult. SD16 is meant to be a 16 year old, therefore the waist is proportionately smaller. A lot of SD16 clothes will therefore fit curvy non-Volks dolls, but you will have to do your homework. Check the wiki for Volks measurements and if your doll's measurements are not on their page, consider adding them to the wiki, to make it easier for other owners of the same sculpts.

 

1) why do we continue to use terms that confuse the heck out of non-Volks people?

Because the clothes you were looking at may very well have been made to specifically fit SD16 measurements, making that term the most accurate descriptor available. Most doll clothes are made to fit a particular company's doll. SD16, SD13, SD, MSD, YO-SD.. These all refer to Volks doll measurements. With this information, you can look up the actual cm/inch measurements of a Volks doll and compare them to the measurements of any other company (most provide these measurements on their websites, or you can use a compiled list such as this one) to find out whether the clothes will fit. It's a widely used system for clothes because Volks makes a lot of BJD clothes, and many BJD clothing companies use Volks measurements to produce their clothes.

2) where can people like me find something that strictly points out EVERY single SD-whatever term and its size in centimeters?

Google is your friend. If you want to know more about the size of an SD type (and can't be bothered to remember the five or six varieties that exist), type the "SD whatever" into Google with keywords "BJD" and "measurements" to make it more specific.

3) Do you like the Volks terms better because they're more specific or something?

The fact of the matter is that Volks produced the first BJD kits in resin, which have become the staple of what we know of BJDs today. SD, MSD, Yo-SD.. These became the standard reference sizes for BJD clothes, because as I stated, they were produced specifically to fit those dolls, but naturally there are many new companies that don't produce dolls exactly, or even remotely, the same size anymore. That's why here on DoA, our "standard" sizes are as follows:

Large: 50cm and up (60cm average)
Mini: 40cm to 49cm (45cm average)
Tiny: 39cm and smaller (35cm average)

The problem with using these to describe doll clothes is that, just as you stated, "Delf" measurements are going to be way different than a "Slim 60cm", which are different than "Large bust", and different than "Male SD13". These all fall in the "large" doll catagory, but vary widely in clothing size. The use of "SD" and other identifiers is to provide a baseline, a set of widely available measurements to compare with to determine compatibility of clothing between companies.

 

What I find more confusing is the online advertising for SD size clothes, when I know for a fact that my Delfs, DOD's & Sr. Delfs all have very different body sizes. Any extra hints that sellers can include to help me figure out what will be an ok fit on my dolls, or not, is appreciated. Whether it is Volks terminology or something else.
Every so often there will be a Dollheart MSD outfit that I find tempting. But I've learned that these are designed for the chunky MSD's while mine are Narae/Unoa/slim mini size which is a whole other can of worms!
And don't even get me started on the 60cm vs 65cm vs 70cm guys' clothes sales... is that a skinny 70 or an EID 70?! Did I mention the 60cm Delf tush?!

In the case of Volks terminology, seeing SD16 or DD next to a FS description lets me know it isn't likely to fit my dolls. And I've learned to watch for hints like these when considering buying an outfit. It has been a matter of asking lots of questions. Ask friends, use google & don't be afraid to ask the seller! This is yet another great way to get to know more folks in the BJD world.

As has already been mentioned, it isn't Volks' fault that they were the first on the scene & we collectors have based a lot of jargon on how it described their dolls. Rather, isn't it sweet there was a beginning of BJDs? And now the choices in the market are enough to spin your head whether it's body's, resin matches, clothes, or.....gah! SHOES...the other sizing nightmare!!

 

1) why do we continue to use terms that confuse the heck out of non-Volks people?
Don't worry t's really not to confusing I learned early in the hobby that volks terms are very helpful, because you can use it for comparison. There are a few sizes of dolls that are average size, like msd sd, etc.. Just think of it as practical, if everyone one was selling bjd clothes to me and listed the model of their doll, it would be more complicated and time consuming for me to find clothes than just saying a msd size and similar. Why because it's easier to know a few doll's measurements than 100+ different sculpt measurements. In cases where you're doll doesn't fit the average volks size, then a seller usually says the company's name and body type. Imagine trying to finding bjd clothes or selling bjd clothes without an average size, it would be a very tedious task and you would have to list all similar sculpts or having to search them.
2) where can people like me find something that strictly points out EVERY single SD-whatever term and its size in centimeters?
Google is your friend you can find a lot of size charts online in more detail. Their also is a website called comparison heaven if you want to compare two different sculpts.
3) Do you like the Volks terms better because they're more specific or something?
Yes, because it's easier to compare one thing to one other thing, and not have to know 100+ things compared to one thing. I mean isn't it easier to know a msd is around 45 cm and your doll is around 45 cm than having to know all similar sizes? Also saying 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, etc.. is a lot less specific than telling me "this doll fits for sure". However, some sellers do list exact measurements in the description, so if your struggling with finding the right size just find a seller that tells you the measurements, or ask.

I hope it's not too confusing Best of luck to you ^.^

 

1)Why do we continue to use terms that confuse the heck out of non-Volks people?

Probably because Volks was around when all other doll companies were non-existent. They were the pioneers of ABJD and latecomers started using their terms so as to no confuse the already present doll community?

2) Where can people like me find something that strictly points out EVERY single SD-whatever term and its size in centimeters?

You have to make your own list. I've made an excel with the volks measurements and when I come across other clothes-making companies like Sadol and Luts that use their own size system, I put their size in as well. So when I want something, I compare with the measurements of my doll and see if they can fit. But normally, when the size refers to SD13 and SD17, that be for the Volks standard size.

For guys, it's more like SD13 (62-63cm) SD17 (65cm) Hound/Uncle (68-72cm but skinny) EID (70cm) ID (72cm)
And the system is different for girls.

3) Do you like the Volks terms better because they're more specific or something?

Not really...but it's just the system and since the shops all refer to those, I'll just go with it. But I know for a fact that my Soom Supergem will never fit in a SD13. He may fit in SD17 but usually I just buy the Uncle size for him coz sometimes, my EID guys can fit in those clothes too.

 

I think most of the questions have been answered, but I do want to mention that I prefer the more detailed Volks sizing listed on clothes IF it's accurate!

I've bought clothes before that were labelled as "SD13" but did not fit my Volks SD13 boy. That would be like selling something listed for "Ringdoll Grown" that would fit some 70cm dolls but not the actual RD Grown!

I do like the detailed sizing if it's accurate. I know SD17 normally does fit my Impldoll old Star body or Soom Super Gem. In that case, I like that they've been more specific, as a standard "1/3 boy" outfit usually won't fit.

I also have noticed that Soom, Fairyland and Iplehouse sizes are showing up more too. Go on etsy and search for clothes for "Super Gem", "Littlefee" or "SID". You'll get results. I think part of the sizing terms are also often based around what doll companies are most popular.

 

If you really want to know about the more recent Volks doll sizes (All those SDCs, Midis, SDGrs, SDGous and such-), just head down to one of the Volks discussion threads, OP. We don't bite. Much.

Most of us can absolutely talk your virtual ear off about the sizing of those dolls, what fits who, and how they compare to other sculpts. (Many of us who have Volks dolls *also* have dolls from other companies. So if you want to know if, say, a dress tagged for an SD16 girl might also fit a Soom Supergem for example, the odds are pretty good that someone who has both could look at it and at least make an educated guess.)

 

Can someone tell me what SDC, SDGr and SDGou stand for? I have been wondering for awhile now.

 

SDC is Super Dollfie Cute, a slim mini with slightly more mature proportions than chunky child like MSD.
Not too familiar with the other two but I know they are more mature boy sculpts with better articulation. Someone who owns one of those hunky boys can tell you all about them!


ETA here's a link to the Volks page showing the different body types. It's a little dated as it doesn't show Gou or Graffiti bodies, but it might be helpful nonetheless.
http://site.volksusa.com/html/hello_sd/bodyTyp_top.html

 

The SDGr (Graffiti) bodies are basically updates of the SD13 boy and girl bodies. They've got better articulation and they're a little more mature than childish in their sculpting. But anything that fits SDGr fits SD13 and vice-versa.

The SDGou is an update to the SD16 BOY body (funny because I think there was only one SD16 boy ever produced). Like the SDGr line, the SDGous have better articulation than their predecessors. The SDGou is a more muscular tall boy doll, similar in height to the SD17. I'm not 100% sure of their measurements, though.

 

Every hobby and community has slang and terminology, there is a learning curve. Honestly. In my schools glass studio we don't change the name of the tools like glory hole and puntys simply because the interesting names for them confuse new people. In Fashion you don't change the name of strange things like croquis to drawing samples because a newcomer finds it frustrating. Skateboarders don't call an oli a kickjump. It's a bit entitled to expect a whole community and hobby to change terminology it's used, been based on, and is used to simply because a few can't be bothered to learn it.

The volks terminology is one term in many people list with to give you a general size estimate for your doll. If things fit an MSD, likely they fit Minifee and others of that type. It's expected of the buyer to ask questions if they need to make sure of a certain fit, and sellers to list as much information as possible. This is why you will often see a list of dolls it can fit, or a list of terms. Such as SD feeple 60 dress.

I find it vulgar that this is even a discussion.

 

Unfamiliar terms can be frustrating, but searching a little with google should clear things up in most cases.

As for me, I love Volks clothing line, so I've learned which sizes fit my dolls. On the Volks site, they will list which outfits fit which bodies, and by now I know SD17 and SDGou are too big for my male dolls (cp delfs), but SD13 will fit. All of their mini clothes usually fit all of their mini sized dolls so I know SDC, MSD, and MDD are similar in size enough to share clothes. And SDgr, SD10, SD13, DD, DDS can usually share clothes as well.

Buying clothes from other companies will be more complicated, since they might say "MSD" but not actually fit Volks MSD... I ended up buying some clothes that might have fit Volks MSD, but were too short/tight for my Dollzone minis. The new Dollzone boys especially have big butts, I don't know what company clothes will fit them! It's all about research and trial and error.

 

Volks really started this hobby thus it makes sense that its their terms be used & most other companies use their terms too in addition to 1/3, 1/4, 1/6 (those are more confusing for me actually i perfer the volks terms) all i own are mnfs so i know that most MSD size stuff will fit but be loose in certain areas. Clothes specifically marked for MNF (a term from fairyland their popularity helped it become a common term) or SDC (super dollfie cute volks slim mini line) would fit better than normal MSD clothes. Honestly all it takes is patience & google. Terms in hobbies aren't bound to change. New terms may be added (ie mnf being used specifically to mention an item fits not only MNF but slim minis of similar size) but the old ones stay. In this case with the doll hobby there are so many companies now that if ALL of them ignored the volks sizing as a base & went with their own thing the hobby would be much much more confusing.

sent through the forests

 

Wow, really, vulgar? Wow. Entitled? Screw people who think obscure and confusing terminology is obscure and confusing, am I right? Who cares if they have a point or that it's not even an aggressive complaint or anything, because even bringing up any inconveniences or annoyances in the hobby is just way too unclassy for this joint. I think your attitude is more vulgar than this discussion. You sound so rude.



As for me, I'm not a fan of Volks, but I have a very loose grasp of the basics of the sizing, ish. MSD and YoSD are rather straightforward to me, but when acronyms SD and up get tossed around, I'm totally lost. I don't currently collect or plan to collect in those sizes, so it's not important to me, but the mix of terminology and the community's general confused tossing around of said terminology certainly can make it hard. For example, some people will use MSD as a general word for all mini dolls, including slim minis, and in a sales thread you'll have to figure out for yourself if it's being used a general term or specifically that it fits MSD-type bodies. My BF dolls sit on the fence between MSD and slim minis, but I know that MSD items often won't fit my girl's curvier, slimmer body type, so it's kind of frustrating looking at a web shop's adorable MSD clothing and debating whether it would fit alright or not, haha. I agree that the use of so many different sizing conventions (Volks, 1/3 1/4 1/6, large/mini/tiny, etc.) can get super-confusing, and looks like it's only getting more so as companies and people use more new terminology like EID and such. For me, I kind of just figured out the lingo very specific to the sizes I collect and from there it's a bit hit-and-miss as I buy things and hope that they fit, haha.

But I think doll companies in general can be rather iffy about communication and info. Often I'll look at a doll's site page and there won't even be info like what size wig or eyes they fit, or have pictures to show the various options they offer like resin colors and such! But the only other option I can think of than using 'standard' doll sizes like MSD, unoa, MiniFee, etc., is to give the exact measurements that the clothes can fit, and I think most doll owners aren't really keen on taking all their doll's measurements to do shopping, haha. It would be nice if doll clothing sites had a page that gave the measurements of the dolls they were using as their standard and had links available on the clothes' webpages to those sizing charts. THAT would be convenient, especially compared to Googling around every time.

ali