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A Debate about Debate

Sep 19, 2008

?

I agree that... (tick all that apply)

  1. Threads should never be locked permanently

  2. Threads should be locked after 2 months inactivity (with option to restart).

  3. Threads should be locked when they are stuck in a loop (with option to restart).

  4. People who can't control themselves should be temporarily suspended from the Debate subforum.

  5. People should never be barred from discussion for any reason.

  6. The edit post feature should be removed.

  7. The edit post feature is too valuable to remove.

  8. A "Debate" Archive would be a good idea for old, inactive or locked debate threads.

  9. Threads in the Debate subforum should be approved by the moderators.

  10. Anyone should be able to start a Debate thread, any time.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
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    1. mckitty has a great point, if someone quotes a persons post then there is no way for them to hide it completely, so is there a point in taking away the edit post? if they edit it before anyone see's it then no one gets offended or angry but if someone does see it and quotes it they cant take it back


      so if people really wanted to know what someone took back they could look for quote boxes with that persons name in them



       
      #141 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
    2. It's hard enough to keep track of what's going on in a thread when there are posts being edited and frankly having to look for quotes, especially if it's a fairly fast moving thread can be confusing and frustrating to anyone trying to make sense of it to say the least.

      That and there's no guarantee that someone will have quoted the post in question anyway.
       
      #142 River, Sep 25, 2008


    3. thats true, but no matter what we do it isnt going to make everyone happy.

      and what do you mean? if no one quotes it then it wouldnt matter if it was deleted right?
       
      #143 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
    4. gah... thanks for clarifying... I thought it was Estimated Time of Arrival... the world is getting too full of acronyms that are the same.
       
      #144 Wee_Little_Faerie, Sep 25, 2008
    5. Really, taking away the 'edit' function is doing users a favour - learning to spell-check and edit before you post things is good for you, you know!
      ::says the grrl who has a Mac and therefore auto-spellcheck on board, lol!::

      One reason I often go back to edit is I have inadvertently made a 'smiley code' with my punctuations and there are weird faces popping up where my words should be -oh noes! However, this can easily be remedied by using 'preview post' before hitting 'submit'.

      I find the idea of removing the 'edit' an unfortunate thing to have to do, but possibly an effective means of keeping debate topics sane. The thought had never occurred to me to edit or remove posts based on subsequent responses - the very concept seems extremely foolhardy and dishonest. It reminds me of why you have to take away the erasers in introductory drawing classes - people will waste the whole class erasing 'mistakes' that were perfectly viable marks to begin with, instead of using the eraser as the subtractive drawing tool it is.

      Perhaps if editing on debates was removed, could a thread-post be routed through 'preview' by default? Added bonus, it would create a delay that might encourage people to think before they post.
       
      #145 tigerbaby, Sep 25, 2008
    6. LOL to the acronyms....*head spinning* I know! I know!

      Yep. I think that so much leeway is already allowed in the Debate subforum insomuch as its a much more open place for members to really discuss at length subjects that are meme-ed to death in other places on the forum, or perhaps subjects that repeatedly come up in blogs and on livejournal but don't really ever seem to get as much thoughtful coverage on this board. Members should be accountable for what they post. Removing the "edit" function in that subforum would be a way to keep accountability in addition to maintaining continuity for those who are reading and contributing to the thread - fast moving threads need to rely on already posted comments saying the same thing they said when posted!
       
      #146 Zagzagael, Sep 25, 2008
    7. I mean, person A may for example post something inflamatory, then go back and edit their original post after person B has already responded but if person B doesn't quote the original person C and who ever else didn't see the original message will have a pretty hard time figuring out what B was responding too.

      The point is though, that we shouldn't have to rely on B to have quoted it in the first place on the off chance that A will decide to backpeddle later.
       
      #147 River, Sep 25, 2008

    8. ooh i see now. that makes sence


      then maybe it would help if we asked people to always quote the parts they are replying to?


      that would probably get annoying though huh.. hmmm
       
      #148 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
    9. Octobercrow, people respond to posts all the time without directly quoting them. A response is a response, whether or not it includes a "capture" of the post that inspired it.

      For example, take this post. What if you went back and deleted your question now? Now my post would look nonsensical and confusing, because the context would be gone. People could probably surmise what was said based on my response, but it would still be incredibly frustrating to someone trying to follow the flow of the discussion.

      There's a phrase we use a lot where I work -- "You cannot unring a bell."
       
      #149 Lizzard, Sep 25, 2008

    10. i know i got that part
       
      #150 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
    11. Exactly.

      In an ideal world it wouldn't be an issue of course, people would just hold their hands up, swallow their pride and admit they where wrong/made their point badly/etc but obviously that's not exactly going to happen.
      Which is why I'm in favour of removing the ability to edit in the debate forums, sure it'll be a bit frustrating with typos and such but I really do think it would go a long way to making people actually think about what they're saying rather than posting kneejerk reactions they'll later regret.
       
      #151 River, Sep 25, 2008
    12. For the poll I chose that anyone should be able to start a debate thread, because the mods can always lock it or move it.

      But if the mods do need to approve debate threads, I think they should ensure that the thread contains an actual debate point. Ideally, one should start with a strongly expressed opinion backed up with sound reasoning. A lot of people are afraid of expressing anything strongly and make it 'What does everyone think about...?' with a tone of 'I'm only asking for opinions', which is more of a discussion than debate. It's as if they want to present all sides equally right from the start, which is against the competitive spirit of debate.
       
      #152 Dezarii, Sep 25, 2008
    13. People who can't control themselves should be temporarily suspended from the Debate subforum
      I'm very surprised so many people voted for this! Who decides what is considered "out of control" behavior? And just how, er, passionate does a response need to be to be considered out of control? Obviously obscene, hateful rants are a no-no, but if your opinion differs vastly from the OPs and most other posters, and the OP takes offense, does that person decide you're being out of control? Would they ask the mods to suspend you? As long as you follow the rules set forth by the mods when you post, and remain civilized, I think it ought to be perfectly ok to speak up even if your personal views are totally against the grain of the community.

      That being said, I have a thing about the whole freedom of speech thing and whenever I get a whif of what might be censorship, I kinda get, ah, out of control. So if I took this totally out of context, forgive me and feel free to laugh at me as I fall off of my soap box! :)
       
      #153 renee_chan, Sep 25, 2008
    14. I think the mods wouldn't bar someone from debate without thoroughly making sure the person really needs to be removed. I don't think the OP of a thread would have any more power over saying who stays and goes than the other thread participants and would be just as subject to that rule as everyone else. And as you said, obscenely hateful or inflammatory posts could be a problem.

      If you remove the person that is detracting from the overall flow of the debate or causing real issues in a thread a warning and removal system might help keep threads from getting closed and would let the most people have the most say.
       
      #154 Tereya Chan, Sep 25, 2008
    15. i think thats just it, when its hateful or obscene then its out of control

      sorry i just realised this last post of mine may have sounded rude, i promise it wasnt ment to be, i hate how you cant read people tones through the internet lol


      i think im with you on that :) but i keep changing my mind about everything lol so we will see how long this one lasts
       
      #155 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
    16. I'm not keen on removing the edit function (I always seem to click post and then think of something I need to reword), but I think it would be nice for keeping continuity and I can see the value of it... though I am wondering if people's sudden desire to remove the edit feature is a knee-jerk reaction to the actions of a couple of people on a recent debate thread?

      I'd also like to see people making the effort to use proper capitalization and punctuation. I don't think the moderators could enforce this, but it is really hard to take people seriously when they aren't making the effort to express themselves like adults. I give leeway to people for whom English isn't their first language (I think it's impressive that they are expressing complex ideas in a language that's not their own!), but I expect more from native English speakers.
       
      #156 armeleia, Sep 25, 2008
    17. People who can't control themselves should be temporarily suspended from the Debate subforum is directed really at people who on purpose go to rile a thread up, pick fights and say things they know will get a reaction, which then in turn causes the thread to be closed, or similar situations, not to stop people giving different opinions.
       
      #157 mystical-maz, Sep 25, 2008
    18. oh and sorry to double post but on the subject of who is out of control and whos not what about reporting a person and once they get so many reports they have to leave? that way its not just up to the mods but to everyone?? what one person may think is out of control another may not feel the same


      or would that be giving the mods to much work???
       
      #158 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
    19. I think that would def give them to much work, keeping an eye on a forum is hard enough and im sure they all get enough pm's as it is, plus if everyone pm's different mods, it would be very confusing.
       
      #159 mystical-maz, Sep 25, 2008


    20. im quite slow on that stuff, i try to spell everything right (or at least close enough that people know what i mean) but going the whole nine yards would be hard for me


      but i agree with you to a certain degree, i havnt seen any on doa yet but i hate it when people talk like this


      "hey wuts up do ya like mah dall?? or do ya h8 er?" lol but like i said i havnt seen anyone like that on doa yet
       
      #160 octobercrow, Sep 25, 2008
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