A frank, mature discussion about doll-vaginas. (nudity)

It's definitely something I wouldn't mind seeing, actually. I love how a stylized doll can look when it comes to their faces and such, but I still like them to be realistic. I'm not sure how long these larger ringdoll BJD's have been in production, but they have super realistic male genitalia and it's even posable, so why not make more realistic female parts? Even just a tad bit more care would be nice, but I suppose not a lot of people have thought about it being serious enough to provide that much detail, but again they make male ones, why not have it even on both sides of gender? It doesn't mean everyone has to have it, or every company has to make it, but having the option would be a nice touch.

 

I think most artists think it is easier to do sculpture those special area for guys than girls... because for girls... that area is harder to sculpt and... not really that effective...

 

I feel like if it were too accurate, people may be completely disgusted with them whereas a penis can show through the pants just a small enough amount to know that there is a slight bulge there.

 

Why is that, and how are the two related?

 

I wouldn't really like to see dolls with detailed vaginas. c_c It's kind of a sick concept to me since I think the vagina looks disgusting as is- but that's my opinion. I'm sure there are people who see differently, but I don't think I'd ever buy a doll with a more detailed vagina.

 

Hmm... From a sculpt/aesthetic view-point I don't much mind - as long as it looks roughly anatomically correct wearing clothes I'm fine.

However, from a political/social viewpoint - I do think the lack of care taken with the female form there is yet another representation of the inequality that is (unfortunately) inherent in society (even the most liberal). Until the work/care/effort that goes into child-rearing (and the other annoyingly traditional roles in the household that most women are expected to perform) are viewed to be of an equal worth to 9 to 5 (blah blah) and recognised and treated as such minor and more major inequalities such as this will persist.

Having said all that - I was rather pleased to note that my DollZone Clare does have some definition down there - nothing distasteful but definition of labia is visible. You can tell that she has genitalia and not just a line (which far surpasses my entirely genderless Obitsu, and shows more care than my DZ72cm guy who's genitalia would be better off absent - it's rather grimly amusing, if anyone actually had an entirely flat-carved-into-their-pubic-area penis I'd be rather worried...)

Edit: http://www.doll-zone.com/pro_detail.asp?id=793
Photos of the body in question - there's a hint of what's there in the shots - it's not overly detailed, but it's nice that the artist took the time to add some degree of realism

 

I sincerely pity you for finding a part of your own body disgusting. I can only hope the majority of people do not share this opinion.

 

I actually really like the sexlessness of the older dolls and might sand the slit off if it was big or particularly realistic.
I actually feel like vaginas are for reproduction and dolls don't need them because they don't and cannot reproduce. I think a little blushing is ok, but I do think they're more stylised than realistic. I mean, look at breasts, the flawlessness of the skin, the perfect shape of their bodies and the anime heads.
I do think it's a personal choice. But I genuinely don't think they're important. I don't like 'em that much on humans though. So I guess that's a massive part of it :P
but I probably would worry about the wear and tear and the teeny details. One can sculpt their own, though I prefer less detail. But that's just me.

 

To be fair, breasts are for reproduction purposes, too, but you wouldn't take those off just because of that fact, right? It'd be unnatural

 

What an interesting topic. I've really enjoyed reading all the different responses and opinions.

My thoughts are ... for most dolls, it doesn't matter ... they are stylized representations of their genders, so I would not expect to see detailed genitalia. In fact, it would look odd or even ridiculous with the rest of the smooth, lithe bodies most bjds have .. or with the childlike/anime type faces. Also, unlike a male, when a female is standing, you really can't see much down there. A slight slit and/or a little blushing is enough.

I can, however, envision it on a few of the mature/elder dolls that are being sculpted realistically. They are really works of art and the accuracy would add to their allure. The genitals .. .male and female ... on these dolls, should be sculpted to match the realism of the rest of the body.

(on a side note ... do my eyes deceive me or does the Doll Chateau male body 03/Mephisto.pheles have a jointed penis, along with jointed fingers and toes?)

 

I consider it in the same vein as the R-18 doujinshi I've collected over the years: there's effectively a black censored strip over the whole area.

In the case of the comics it's annoying because that was the point of buying something with that rating, but for a doll? Not a huge deal. I can't think of a single angle I might photograph my dolls from that require that level of accuracy in their sculpts. I've drawn a fair amount of "adult art", and both characters end up posed so you can't see anything anyway; this is the same thing.

If it's annoying because you were planning on full-frontal doll porn, just mod it to your liking or buy optional parts from somewhere.

 

I don't know that it's necessary to belittle PrincessBane for their opinon. . .

I share the opinion that people should be comfortable with their own bodies, and human anatomy in general, as it's part of who we are. But this is about dolls and whether they (specifically females) should have visible doll genitals or not. I know that I've come to this thread very hot headed about the issue before. I won't do that again. I'll just say that it's something which bothers me profoundly in a larger context -- to see that mature male dolls with bodies treated very realistically have very distinctive penises and that female dolls who are equally mature and realistic in other areas, have genitals which have appeared to me like they were an after thought more often than not. This bothers me and I know it doesn't bother many others, and I understand why! Because it doesn't matter in the end. My dolls are fully clothed all the time. I don't waste time thinking about what they have in their pants in the end. I am bothered about the lack of attention to female doll genitals because of what I personally feel it says about sexism in the modern world. Sexism that I experience every single day that disturbs my quality of life. And so I like to see female dolls done justice in the pants. I like to think that some sculptor out there finds it valuable enough to reproduce even if they don't find it beautiful. Even better if they do find it beautiful.

As for people's genitals. . . I thought it was pretty well established that many women hate themselves down there. (I can't speak for men) I've seen many videos on the internet about women who are so upset by their (perfectly healthy and normal) labia that they endure surguries to make them look "more normal" -- where do these ideas come from? What is more normal than what a person has at birth? Than what is real? There are plenty of women who absolutely hate the way it looks. There are plenty more women who don't even know what it looks like -- women have maintained a relative isolation from their sexual selves and ignorance to their own physical body through the decades of the rise of feminism to a degree larger than I think is healthy.

As for how that pertains to dolls. Let's assume there are plenty of females in the hobby, I think they deserve to be able to find and purchase a doll who actually has labia if that is important to them.

But people are the way they are -- no need to make PrincessBane feel bad for it when they were just coming here to share an opinion which is part of the valuable whole of the debate.

 

You guys will probably laugh at this so I'm going to tell you. First big fashion doll I ever bought I bought to practice custom face ups and I totally messed her up to the point that I was truly disgusted with her. I think I must have repainted her a couple dozen times and I never got any better. Finally she got to the point where I just could not paint her anymore so I decided to wipe her completely one last time and make a mannequin out of her for sewing. But that didn't work either as she somehow during all my messing with her acquired a lose arm. I glued it on, permanently and decided to just hang the darned doll on a mirror as a joke as a testament to my own folly. But before I did I did something I had always wanted to do for a fashion doll. I made her a merkin. Yup, I gave that doll a big 70's style bush in bright copper no less to match the hair on her head. Why? Because for as long as I can remember I have never understood why those types of dolls have boobs but no pubes, and it bugged me.

One of the things I like most about my BJD's is that unlike fashion dolls they do have something like real genitalia. (There are of course novelty dolls that do have them that are sold in sex shops, and there are actual sex dolls...) They look more like real people in and out of clothes. It amuses me to no end that some doll manufacturers actually make rotating boy parts. It's probably nasty to admit it but I like somewhat anatomically correct dolls vs the smooth nothingness of say a Barbie type doll. I think it's cool. I'm not sure I'd do that, make a merkin, for a BJD, but then again who knows, maybe one day my warped imagination will lead me to do it again, only to a resin doll. One of my BJD dolls is actually a kind of earth goddess. Now that I come to think of it a merkin to match her wig would not be at all out of place given the rest of what I planned to do to her and who she is supposed to be. :P

Yes, I like my pubes, vagina, hair and all. I'm a woman and I like looking like one too. That some of you don't like that part of your bodies, can't rejoice in it's uniqueness, it makes me very sad. Truly. Hugs...

 

Yeah, of course. It's really just that I find genitals to be gross in terms of what they're like on people (consider the other four senses, not just sight) and breasts are a bit removed from that. Though I wouldn't do much blushing on them either.

 

I agree the doll makers don't take much time to make a pretty vulva. I agree it should be taken with more care as they would with any other sexual part of the body. I however feel like if they decide to do it needs to look as realistic (and adult) as possible. None of these hafl-child, half-barbie things that make you feel like a pedophile. And above all make sure the body blushing is modest and accurate.
My dolls body blushing is this lilac, purple color, they sprayed that all over her vulva, so now it looks more like she fell wrong on the jungle gym.

 

I think it might have to do with cost effectiveness. Vulvas are pretty complicated looking and I imagine it would take some time to sculpt them, plus then people would want vulva variety and there's time and effort pulled into that. Probably the doll companies want to focus on other qualities such as new heads and new colors.

 

Personally, I treat my dolls like little extensions of myself, and like them dressed-up. So detailed genitalia (below or above) is super, super low on my priority list.

 

I never really understood what people meant by "after-thought vulvas" until recently, when I stumbled across a doll body I don't even remember from whom and she had this meticulously-detailed body and labia majora that looked like they were carved into the prototype with a blunt butter knife in three seconds. Or they let an ancient Akkadian scribe into their workshop who found the only piece of clay s/he could lay his/her hands on and began writing a poem about the glory of female genitalia but got distracted.

So uh... yeah. I don't necessarily want all of the bells and whistles and the wrinkly labia minora complete with the asymmetry (I mean, don't get me wrong - if that's there, it's cool), but it'd be nice if the general outside at least looked like it was meant to resemble soft folded skin and fatty tissue. I find that most dolls that I've looked at don't really have much problem in this area though. The Iplehouse nYID girls have pretty nice-looking ones.

Which reminds me when they first launched that line, and posted up posing photos of the bodies, and they had body-blushing complete with auburn pubic hair. And the doll community had a collective cow. Which prompted Iplehouse to run back and re-do the blushing/re-take photos so that there was none of the "icky" body hair that offended such delicate sensibilities. I mean, I certainly wasn't EXPECTING to click on the posing photos and see carefully-drawn bush, but I just thought it was unusual and funny, and totally acceptable. Apparently this was not the general consensus.

 

Vulva really aren't that complicated in comparison to, lets say, hands, faces or the entire torso. I don't know why there sometimes isn't much effort going into sculpting that piece, but it doesn't have anything to do with trying to keep the production cost low.

 

I actually don't buy my girls (or boys for that matter) for the "nether region." In fact, it's the face/ head sculpt and body shape that attract me to a doll.

I first liked the ABJD for their ability to pose in so many different ways; and for the creative base for different fashions/ wigs/ eyes/ etal. Never did it occur to me that anyone would be taking photos of their doll's bits......but then again, I never thought my cousin's wife photograph her own bits and post them on MySpace. (Talk about being blinded.)

Anyhow, if you want more parts on your dolls, may I suggest the blowup kind of doll....