A frank, mature discussion about doll-vaginas. (nudity)

haru-jen, thank you sooo much for pointing that out about the labia surgery. Your response was what was going on in my mind, only much better said!
I also agree with the sentiment that these dolls aren't meant for children, though that is a different debate altogether.

 

It doesn't really bother me that that area is stylized and simplified, but I agree that the shape could be paid more attention to. Like make it look more like softly folded skin that just a dent in hard plastic.;;; But too detailed.. I guess I feel like it's unnecessary, unless of course it's an extremely realistic doll all around. After all, a lot of people only have a slit showing, like someone else said.. we don't all have a box of cow tongues. (Damn you Dane Cook...) So just a slit is fine with me. Anatomy of any kind doesn't have to be really detailed to be beautiful and look "right", if the sculptor knows what they're doing.

 

I hope this isn't veering off into an immature discussion with vulgar references. I like the serious discussion and thought-provoking concepts presented here.

 

I know in Australia, soft porn photography has to have any protruding labia minora to be airbrushed out of the photos, which is often a cause of women wanting labiectomies - cause they think they aren't normal. :/

Anyway, I completely agree with this post, and have been wanting to write a similar thing, but was unsure of how to word it, so thank you for saying what I wanted to say.

My Glorydoll girls have what I would call "clitoral detailing", not much, but they've shaped the top of the slit to give a bit more definition. I was fascinated when I first saw it because I had only ever seen the crude slits of other dolls.

I personally wouldn't mind at least a bit of a fleshier looking labia sculpted on more dolls. Doesn't need to be super detailed, but something other than just a quickly gouged out slit would be nice. I find it interesting the amount of people who are so vocal about boy dolls needing more detailing and larger sizing in regards to their penises, but aren't so crash hot on vaginal detailing. Do we hate our own genitalia that much?

As for the children seeing it thing, despite the fact that they're aimed at adults, is it really a bad thing for a child to see a naked body? They can look at their own whenever they wish, why are we so scared to show them nudity? Children don't attach sexuality to it in the way that adults do.

 

Honestly, I think what they have is fine. I was actually excited that they actually acknowledged genitalia in some way. Yea, they aren't anatomically correct, but I don't really think they need to be. If I wanted to look at correct genitalia, I would have looked at a real person. I think cute dolls deserve 'cute' parts. But that's just me. And I mean, real genitalia could really scare people. But then again if they're scared by that I suppose they would be scared by how they are now.

 

I don't think it's a case of hating our genitalia, in the case of women who think the current level is fine. I think it's a more a case of disinterest. I am a woman. I am quite fine with the appearance of my genitalia and have no real body image hang ups. I simply do not care that my dolls don't have minute clitoral details or uneven labia minora or anything of that nature. It's something that I, in my experince of seeing women naked, feel is something you don't see as much detail on unless the body is in certain positions, and so the grooves that are present on my dolls I feel are enough to represent stylized female genitalia on a standing doll. When you're standing, everything down there gets smushed together anyway, it's why camel toe is such a prevalent thing. And what's that but the flesh of the labia majora getting pushed together to form a groove that cuts down the center of the pubis? There is the suggestion that the other structures would be present if it was possible to part the flesh of that area.

I'm more concerned by my male dolls anatomy because it is something that is very visible even when they are standing. Poor penis sculpting is like bad finger sculpting.

 

Kim: I was more referring to the people who said things like "I dislike my own genitals" or "I find female genitalia ugly", than those who are indifferent. I can understand not really caring about something which is obviously much less visible than male genitalia, but I see so much dislike of the female body on these forums that it concerns me considering the majority of us are female.

 

Well, the ones calling for more detail on male doll genitalia aren't always the ones who don't need more detail on girl doll genitalia. In both cases, I'm not interested in more detail there when most dolls lack fine detail in many other areas of their anatomy. Also, what we like to see on our dolls and what we like to see on ourselves may not have direct correspondence.

 

But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those who cited reasons for not liking female genitalia as why they don't want to see it more detailed on dolls. Not those who don't care either way, or those who don't care for a more detailed doll, but have no issues with their own genitals.

 

This about sums my opinion up.
The extent of realism I demand is that there be a generally correct shape, and that some of my girls have pubic hair because they just look so exposed without it- I guess I almost feel having it is more modest.

 

Right so, I think that they could actually use some detail. Not too much mind you, but I would like a bit more than just a scratch. For the sake of trying to explain to my roommates why I've got a naked doll on my bed, it doesn't need to be a model of human reproduction, but I think there should be something. The simple fact is that these dolls are too realistic by half to be without such things as at least properly attempted genitalia. My boys all have an awkward, lumpy sausage bit, and the girls get a what looks like a flaw in the resin- it's just silly. The doll's like a perfect little replica and then you take it's trousers off and it looks like a good reason to try abstinence. I don't want a "porn doll", but I also don't want the laughable attempt that pretty much all the dolls have right now, I think they deserve better.

 

Actually now that I think about this more I realise I have a little bit of a double standard going on. I remember once complaining that there just wasn't enough detail in my male doll's genitals. It bothered me to such a degree that I considered modifying them. Why then doesn't the lack of parts on my female dolls bother me?

I think the answer may be my subconscious more fixed on an idealised male form whereas I don't really have any preconcieved notions about women's bodies...since well...I have one of my own.

Granted I don't think adding a little more definition (more grooves or dents for example) is going to get damaged due to it's position. I mean the male doll's phalluses remain intact and they actually protrude quite a bit. So...it is curious as to why a little bit more detail isn't added to the women. By that same token it would even be sort of nice if they added sculpted pubic hair like SOOM did for their Idealians. (speaking of Idealians...they really have a LOT of detail in that area!)

 

I wouldn't be opposed to more detail, but I would have a few concerns about it (in regards to both penises and vaginas)

A) Genitals are super complex and fiddly at 1:1 scale, they have lots of little details and bits. I can't imagine trying to sculpt them and do them justice, particularly at such a small scale. Especially because they occupy a relatively small area of the body.

B) Resin is a hard substance, I've read of the woes of some male doll owners trying to find pants that fit their boys simplified genitals, it would be even more difficult if they were realistic, females I could see this being less of a problem, unless you want super tight and thin pants on them. Also I can see realistic penises and scrotums getting in the way of posing.

C) Breakage. This would be (I imagine) more of a problem with the females, as female genitalia is made of more small, delicate pieces. And, as amusing as all the threads in the customizing section asking what kind of glue they should use to re-attach their girls' vulva would be, I imagine it would be mostly a source of frustration.

D) Overworking. Because of the level of detail realistically sculpted genitalia would have, it would be VERY easy to overwork them. Putting so much detail into them that the level would overwhelm the rest of the doll were it to be photographed nude.

E) Regardless of how many wonderful and varied vaginas there are in the world, there is still an ideal. That ideal is the majority of the genitals covered by the labia majora except in specific circumstances (arousal, gynecological exams, other situations where legs are spread) Thus, this is what the majority of the now more detailed genitals would be like, as these are idealized sculptures. (Admittedly, I am only certain that this ideal is present in the west, and so it could be quite different elsewhere)

I do think just shaping the small indent they have in the resin to be a bit more vulva shaped and less "Oh, crap, right, this is a GIRL doll! Carve a line there and call it a day" would be nice, and much better than trying to make them super detailed.

 

I've had issues with my SD13 and his penis getting in the way of buttoning/zipping pants. It's quite frankly ROFLYAO territory when you can button around it, but you can't zip it up, and the shirt needs to be untucked to hide things. Sometimes I'd rather he just not have it, but whatever.

My dolls present gender in the way I dress them and have them faceupped, not in their hoohoojoos. I really do not care for genitalia one way or the other, a good portion of my dolls do not have definition at all down there. They are my toys, not my substitute human beings. They don't need that stuff. If they come with it, that's cool, but I have never minded either way.

EDIT: Also, the folks who think the "slit" should extend from the front all the way through to the buttcrack, I regret to inform you that women don't work that way.

 

Doll genitalia is pretty much a non-issue for me. I don't think dolls need any more detailing than they already have, and in fact the genital detail is pretty much the last thing I consider when looking at a doll for purchase.

Breasts, on the other hand, are very much more important because, even though they're usually covered, they affect the fit and drape of clothing. I prefer realitically shaped breasts to the "melon globes" a lot of large-busted dolls have. And nipples are definitely a non-negotiable must. Breasts without nipples are like faces without noses.

 

This is such an interesting thread; with all the boy bit discussions, it's about time people shared their opinions on the girls.

OpheliaB, there's a lot of variation out there... in a standing or neutral laying position, some women do work that way (though if ladies with thin, doll-like proportions do, I don't know).

 

I actually think having the vagina spread open and everything hanging out would be less realistic. (more detailed maybe, but less realistic) I wouldn't want a doll that looked like her legs were constantly spread. Also since dolls are made out of hard resin, you'd see every bump and crevace through panties or thin pants that would be unrealistic and to me extremely unappealing. I think female dolls are fine as-is, especially since there has never been and never will be vagina seen in any of my photos. Even nude photos wouldn't be posed where you could see it.

 

Since this thread was started, and I first posted, I have been doing a LOT more thinking on the subject! More than I ever thought I'd do while not actively working on, or photographing, my dolls naked...about my male and female dolls, too.

I still stand by my 'if I want them different, I'll mod them to how I want them.' and my 'Those mods will be done based on the character of the doll, as each is different and unique, so their genitals, like everything else about them, should be an extension and reflection of who they are'. But I have to say...just like with male dolls...I'm HAPPY they are sold as they are...with some having decent detail, some having the very basics, and some having nothing at all. I'm happy about it because it means that those who want nothing can have nothing there, those who want minimal can have it, and those want decent detail CAN find it without having to create it themselves. And those of us who don't mind modding to make things how we want them, can. For those who want nothing, but like bodies with the minimal done, they can easily remove the minimal without having to worry too much about changing the general shape of the area. The more detail there is, the more likely you are to change the SHAPE of the area, while removing that detail. Like those who sand of the penises from their male dolls. The larger, or more detailed, that area is, the more likely you are to change the base shape underneath it all in the process of removing it.

So where dolls are now...make it possible for one to mod, or have a doll modded for them, to either no detail, or more, the most easily. Which, I think, is a good thing.

 

I dislike the lack of detailing on female dolls in general. The pubis and labia is simply another body part that gets ignored.

 

Of all of the doll Vulvas I have I've found that Sleetwealth Briar has a very beautiful detailed one. It looks fairly realistic for being made of resin.