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About CoA's...

Aug 15, 2016

    1. So with the rise of recasts, I know that having a CoA for your doll (especially if you wish to sell) is particularly important nowadays. I know it's definitely a deal breaker for a lot of owners in deciding whether or not to purchase a second-hand doll, and it's seen as a basic, common sense type of thing to hold onto.

      But I have to wonder...who else here lacks common sense?

      When I first joined the hobby back in 2007, I was just out of high school and had never collected or purchased anything nearly as expensive before. The closest I ever came was getting into Lolita fashion and purchasing a few brand name dresses. I would clip off the tags and keep them for awhile because they were pretty, but inevitably they would get lost or tossed out. Once I went on to sell those dresses, their legitimacy was never questioned and no one had ever asked for the original tags. I realize there's a difference between clothing and dolls, but I think the same basic idea can be applied. Simply put, I didn't know how important those little pieces of paper could actually be.

      Fast forward to today, and I'm realizing I have no idea where a majority of my doll's CoA's are. While I highly doubt I threw them away, I definitely would have to do some digging to see if they've survived my multiple moves throughout the years. Sometimes I'll read some of these threads here and feel like an absolute fool that I didn't have the sense to store them somewhere safe. But then I have to wonder, surely there are others in my position? I'd hate to have the legitimacy of my dolls questioned as I would never dream of owning a recast, yet I fear that could be the case as I'm only now realizing the importance of holding onto their CoA's.
      • x 3
    2. I haven't been in the doll communist long but to my understanding CoA are fairly new so it's to be expected that many different lines of dolls don't have CoA.
      It might damper someone's expectation but there are other ways to tell authenticity and I would just make sure they are listed. To me the certificate is collector item in itself and would feel like a missing piece and that's fine as long as I'm aware of that.
      It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me though, not everyone still has the original box, or have lost set pieces to "full sets". It doesn't make them any less beautiful, just not as complete as new. As long as who's buying it is aware of what is missing, what's included it should be no problem.
    3. Ouch, that sounds like a whole lot of regret due to the sudden change in the doll market. All I remember is when I first jointed the doll hobby, recasts existed but weren't as much of a problem because not as many people advocated them and people were at least honest about owning them.

      I always want the COA and original box not because it proves authenticity but because of my collector's blood boiling. I am much less likely to buy secondhand if a doll doesn't come with everything it originally came with from the company just because it makes the purchase feel more "complete".

      But this thread does give me the feeling that I should take better care of these things. .-.
    4. I know what you mean about being more complete. I don't even throw away my anime figure's boxes away.

      I've always kept the coas for all of my dolls that came with them. I usually store them in the box the doll came with but for dolls without boxes, I just store them in another box or in the drawers where I keep their clothes.
      • x 1
    5. I'm not going to worry over it, honestly... None of us own time machines, and none of us can alter the way the hobby changed around us.

      I do have the CoAs for my dolls that came with them. But... Many of my own purchased-directly-from-the-company dolls are old enough not to have come with CoAs. Others have had multiple owners and date from a time when paperwork didn't tend to be included in a sale. Still others are "reassembled" sets whose parts came from multiple places at different times... and with the sole exception of Volks' well-nigh-indestructible white Sato FCS boxes, which I use for props storage, I've never kept any doll's box for more than a couple of months. (With a large collection of mostly 1/3-scale dolls? There's just no way. Keeping boxes isn't practical. I couldn't give half of my garage or attic over to storing the darn things on the off chance I that might someday want to sell a doll to someone picky enough to demand it.)

      Of course, I do realize that means that a large portion of my collection may well eventually become practically unsaleable in our "post-recast" market. Newer collectors seem to have come into the hobby with the idea that any and every doll MUST have complete documentation, and anything lacking a CoA and box is to be considered suspicious. People being people, most just aren't going to put in the leg-work to determine if the doll ever came with a certificate or not. They'll just see "No CoA" and dismiss it as questionable without a second thought... Other ways to establish legitimacy and provenance are even more work, so I don't see many being willing to do that, either.

      That leaves us and our older dolls well and truly up the proverbial creek.

      I'm not sure what the answer is... There may not be a good solution that's fair to everyone involved... It's simply one more ugly little wrinkle in this whole recast business. The suspicion that falls on older, undocumented dolls is just part of the collateral damage that the rise of recasting has caused.
      • x 3
    6. I am very into keeping everything that comes with a bigger purchase.
      I still have the boxes from my videogame consoles for example.
      I don't keep receipts though and if I have zero emotional attachment (like to a TV or bed) I throw the boxes out of course.
      Don't want to hoard and I don't have the space anyway.

      When I started collecting dolls it was just normal to me to keep the boxes and all including paper work.
      To me it belongs to the doll and is part of the whole thing.
      It was also obvious to me that they are probably helpful when selling.
      Just like with any other collectible it's always better to have the box at hand.

      Every box is packed up in a big blue garbage bag, taped close with a tag that says what's inside (company, doll, character name) for easy identification.
      They are stored in the attic.
      The papers, cerificates etc. are in a big bag in one of my doll-related drawers.

      I at least toned it down with outfit bags and boxes (like from Dollheart), since I rarely sell clothes and don't store them in these boxes anyway.
      I keep the Oscar and Enchanted eye boxes though.
    7. If it is important to you when you have a chance you could try putting aside 30 minutes of a day going through boxes and seeing what you can find and then when you come across them put them in a large enough box to hold them keep adding onto it. I know with moves I have made I am lucky to find the animals and that is only because they scream for food. It shouldn't be an issue unless you want to sell them. It just reminds us we need to organize some paperwork better so we have it after a move

      or some collectors. I know there is a whole group of non bjd collectors [this was a phenomena well before recast] that wanted all paperwork tags, tissue and box of particular dolls and they will always exist. While I have rationalized the investment part to others concerning my dolls few make it out of my hot little hands and those are the newer ones either with everything or stipulated otherwise.
      #7 Katscauldron, Aug 16, 2016
      Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2016
    8. As a collector in today's current market, I prefer buying dolls with their documentation and original boxes. The market is too volatile at the moment due to so many factors, so it helps to be extra cateful.

      The bjd hobby has grown exponentially over a decade, and while there has been some changes, some old practices have also failed to adapt with the popularity of the hobby. Add recast dolls to the mix, and collectors have even more problems to deal with. Today, the ball jointed market is much too large, which is not necessarily bad thing, but it does create new issues to consider.

      I am very particular about keeping boxes and CoAs because they are also part of the doll. The shipper boxes also help protect my dollies from damage. I'm also a finicky collector, but I currently own 4 dolls that came with no certificates of authenticity, so I am fully aware that other finicky collectors might not like the missing CoA.
    9. One thing I think is important and should be read and put out there from what I have read on here with problems in transactions in the marketplace and in general: the head keeps the COA and if you are selling a body online do it with that explicitly stated and make sure the person understands and show detailed pics of the body both with the head and without it. In all honesty now I wouldn't even sell a resin anywhere except in person to someone that knows me. I have sold Goodreau resin bjds at doll shows and they didn;t have their COA as that was from dolls I had bought before this all came up with it being a necessity and to buyers that knew the dolls etc [plus they are relatively cheaper than their Asian cousins]
    10. Tbh I dont really care if a doll I buy second hand comes with a CoA or not :huh?: I mean CoA can be faked and if your not going to put in any effort to doing your own research to see whether a doll is legitimate you could be fooled just as easily by a fake CoA.

      When I go to buy a second hand doll I look up photo after photo and compare minute details to try and make sure that the doll they're selling is legit. I also trace the dolls lineage and in the case of ebay sales, check feedback and look at what other items they are selling before taking the risk.

      Also older dolls tend to show their age pretty obviously so unless a person with a recast has purposely yellowed their doll it will usually look newer than the real deal. And if you look at the results of this poll What makes you NOT buy an item on the secondhand marketplace? it suggests that people are a lot more concerned with extreme over pricing of older dolls and undisclosed damage/poor sales photos than they are about missing CoA or boxes.
      • x 2
    11. I'm a keeper-type, so I always hung on to the CoA and all the packaging, even the shipper. It has come in handy now! But I have a lot of dolls with no CoA or original packaging. Either I bought them second-, third- or fourth-hand and any paperwork/packaging was long gone, or the company didn't issue CoAs in the first place. I think more experienced buyers realize that there will be these issues with older dolls, and look for other factors instead.
    12. I am one of those people who keeps the stuff that came with my dolls. I don't have the room for the boxes, so I flatten them and keep them in my closet. (If I sell a doll, I can easily reglue the box back together.) I keep all the CoAs in one place.

      However I don't think you should be TOO worried. There are multiple ways to prove legitimacy, and I think most people will be satisfied if at least one of them is present. I am always looking for either a CoA, original company box, or company faceup. And honestly between those things, the box matters to me the most, but a faceup is the most foolproof evidence in my opinion since a CoA can be faked and boxes can be generic. Even though there are a lot of people who wouldn't buy a doll without a CoA (assuming that the doll even came with one, and that these buyers have done the research to know this), there are still plenty of buyers willing to overlook it.
    13. A missing CoA isn't a deal breaker. It's nice to have as a collector, and I will pay more for a complete collection than just a doll by itself. I'll even pay additional postage for the bulky boxes. Every collectible such as a barbie or anime resin statue is worth more when it is kept with its original packaging. I honestly don't understand how this community didn't have some sort of appraising built into it. Recasting isn't a issue either for me. Resin like all art mediums ages and will look differently than new resin. Most older resin didn't have the UV protections built into it. Recasting is a problem for people who just don't want to do the research on a particular doll. There are many resources available online if you just look.
    14. The thing is, in 2007 it wasn't common sense to hold on to CoAs. They were just funny little add-ons that weren't really necessary, because there wasn't ever any reason to doubt the legitimacy of a doll.

      I have a few dolls without CoAs, either becuase they were second hand from back then or just never came with them (I'm lookin' at you, Fairyland). If you happen to have CoAs for your dolls it's great (and definitely hold onto any you get now!), but you can also prove legitimacy with boxes, receipts, company confirmation emails, DoA purchase history (feedback is more important than ever) and testimony from former owners.
    15. I found out that people can be very... passionate about recasts(Against them). So I figured I should keep my CoA encase I ever met another doll collector in person and they were uptight about needing to see them. I believe they're in one of two boxes that hold my doll accessories. I should get them out and scan them just encase seeing as I plan on moving in the future...
    16. I myself like to have the CoA when it's there, but it sure isn't a deal breaker. That said, in the combined collection my SO and I have approximately one doll out of five without one, but she just has far too many tells for me to think she isn't legitimate. I guess if we ever decide to sell her we may have problems, but I just can't force myself to get to worked up about it.
    17. I haven't tossed anything away but I also am not worried about it either. I like getting CoAs because it feels "fancy" and are sometimes handwritten by the artist - which I think is cool. Plus as a collector I just like things that prove provenance, so it's all tracked anyway. I have some antiques and such and it's just cool to look at a 100 year old furniture label.

      Basically if I bought a doll from Target I'm probably tossing the receipt, if I watched an artist sculpt a doll for a year and then sell 10 of them, I'm probably holding on to the CoA. That said I do own a doll that didn't come with one because the company didn't have them (they now do). I honestly just care because it's a show of pride from the artist.

      People will always find something to nitpick even when it's unfounded which is a shame when it causes undo headache due to paranoia.
    18. I have kept all of the CoAs I've had for my dolls over the years, but the truth is that many (maybe even most) never had them. Either I bought from companies who didn't have CoAs at the time, or I bought secondhand from someone who had lost it or never had it. I haven't kept boxes simply because I have almost no storage space at all in my house, other than the garage or attic, where they'd get full of bugs and spiders and risk getting wet or dirty and I really don't think anybody wants to buy them after that. I do keep some of the really nice ones, like Iplehouse and Fairyland, but I don't bother keeping the ones that aren't really anything but a cardboard box with maybe a stamp.

      I do understand that the lack of a box and CoA (assuming the doll did originally come with them) makes a set complete, and some buyers may not be interested in buying my doll without them. That's fine, I get it. It wouldn't matter to me, but it's no different that how some people won't buy a doll without the original faceup or fullset.

      However, it does concern me that people may automatically assume I'm selling recasts or trying to scam them just because I don't have those things. I am anti-recast, I always buy my dolls from companies, authorized dealers or the DoA MP, and I have 14 pages of positive feedback here, 100% positive feedback on eBay and have been a member of the BJD hobby without any problem transactions for almost 9 years. So yes, it does bother me that someone would think I'm trying to scam them just because I don't have a piece of paper that may have never come with a doll in the first place.
    19. As some of you said, it wouldn't be a deal braker to me if the seller doesn't have the CoA anymore. Maybe I should be more demanding, though, because I tend to trust what people say without questioning. If I bought a secondhand doll here, I would be ok if the original box or the CoA is missing, because I have no reason to distrust anyone here. On ebay or other sites, on the other hand... well, I wouldn't buy a doll there just in case I can't tell if it's a recast or legit. Sometimes I still feel like a newbie, so I wouldn't take the risk.
      If there's no CoA, or original box.. How do you know if it's legit? The faceplate? But it's only on the headsculpt, isn't it? the head could be legit and the body a recast, so how do you know? And there are old dolls that don't have face plates either, aren't there? Too overwhelming, I definetely would only buy second-hand dolls here lol
      #19 Naisha, Aug 17, 2016
      Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
    20. I keep my CoAs in the original boxes my dolls came in. For the ones that don't have a CoA, I can always pull up my Paypal records and purchase emails. I have a folder in my email specifically for Doll Purchases. I keep CoAs, emails, and reciepts because it's an expensive purchase and they are collector's items.
      • x 1