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Acceptable Theft and Supposed Hypocrisy

May 14, 2015

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    1. So speeding is against the law but you do it anyway? Why do you do it even though it is illegal? Do you think it makes you a hypocrite? And every time you speed and don't get a ticket, aren't you depriving the government of speeding ticket money? To me, comparing murder and speeding is ridiculous, and it just highlights the difference between morality and actual laws.


      Re-casts and under-declaring are not the same thing at all, it's not hypocritical to reject one and not the other. Hypocrisy would be saying re-casts are wrong, and then buying recasts. Or saying under-declaring is wrong, and still under-declaring packages. Most people, whether they think about it or not, differentiate between morality based laws, and laws that are unrelated to morality (and perhaps they view as arbitrary or even immoral). Most of us think re-casting is immoral, and that's why we are anti-re-cast. Even if it wasn't illegal, we wouldn't like or do it. On the other hand, plenty of people don't think under-declaring is immoral, and have many reasons they think it is even a good thing to do (as many have explained in this thread and others). They might refuse to under-declare only because it's illegal and not because they think it's actually wrong. And if they do think it's wrong, then they probably won't do it.
       
      #41 Yukamina, May 20, 2015
    2. most of us here benefit from living in countries that are governed by the rule of law, even though our personal moral beliefs might be different (some of us I'm sure believe that homosexuality is wrong, for instance). rules and regs exist for good reasons. traffic laws exist for good generally socially acceptable reasons, ditto intellectual property laws. for me, legal is legal is legal, and vice-versa - it doesn't change just because one does not agree with the basis of the law. whether one knowingly violates the law, however, that's a different issue, imo.
       
      #42 ATYL, May 21, 2015
    3. You seem to have missed my point entirely. I wasn't comparing murder to speeding; I was trying to point out that they are both against the law in our society. Therefore, I ask the question that if you support one law, how could you not support them all? So, does speeding make me a hypocrite even though I don't go out and murder people? No, probably not. But, if I was to say that I support the laws against homicide, but other laws are negligible because they are inconvenient to me, they are "not as bad as killing someone," and the consequences are far less serious, therefore I can disobey them at my leisure, then I would say yes. Why? Because at the end of the day they are all laws; they are all enforceable, governable, and created under the same pretenses. One could say that murder outranks petty theft, or traffic statutes, and to this I would obviously agree. I never said they were even remotely the same. But, they are still both against the law, regardless of the severity of the crime.

      I've always hated the saying, "It's like comparing apples and oranges," for this very reason. Yes, they are different; they taste different, have different nutrients, flavor, textures, etc. However, at the end of the day...they are still both fruits.

      People violate the little laws in life, such as under declaring the value of an international package or the act of speeding, for many reasons, but I think the main reasons are because they consider it a "minor" crime (i.e., not on the same level as, say, murdering someone), the chances of being caught are pretty negligible, and the consequences are not severe enough to dissuade them. I disagree with you that one will choose to obey a law simply because it is illegal not to. That is the basis of morality itself; if you didn't think the law was fair or "good" in the first place, you would not feel the need to obey it or follow it. We obey laws because morally we agree with the concept of law, if not the laws themselves. You can't obey or not obey a law without morality playing a part. The definition of morality is also the extent to which we consider something right or wrong, so one can speed and not feel as guilty as they would committing theft, or, once again, murder, because of how one gauges their morality with their concept of law. The two, to me, are intertwined.

      No, recasting, or art theft, is not the same as under declaring an item or marking an item as a gift. I never said they were the same. However, like comparing apples and oranges, they still fall under the same category. At least to me, they are still "fruit." They fall from similar trees. Arguably, one is not as "bad" as the other, but to me, I find it difficult to comprehend howone can adamantly argue for one "law," then turn around and say that another "law" is fine, but specifically on how this relates to the hobby. You don't support art theft, but support stealing from your own country. I don't get it, I really don't.

      Like I said, I'm not good with words, so sometimes I don't articulate very eloquently what it is I am truly trying to say, and no, I definitely don't often use the best examples. I suppose using speeding and murder by comparison was a poor choice, but at the time I felt it adequately related how the person I was referring to felt regarding recasts (murder), and then having them turn around and defend the act of under declaring an item (speeding).

       
      #43 Zeodyte, May 21, 2015
    4. I am really super glad to live in the USA so I don't have to worry about custom fees on top of my already super expensive doll hobby.

      As has been mentioned else-where in this thread, as a seller, I would not be willing to under-declare an item simply because I always include insurance when shipping expensive fragile items (dolls, electronics, etc.).

      There is just too much risk there, ESPECIALLY going overseas, a lot can happen in transit. Packages get lost or damaged every day. Insurance protects both buyer and seller.

      As a buyer, even if I had to live within a country with high taxes and import duties, I would rather have my package insured, than to receive a broken doll, that was "non-refundable".

      There's no way to prove if a seller scammed a buyer by trying to ship an already broken/damaged doll (and used older photos pre-damage in the sales post), or if the doll got damaged in shipping.

      Paypal almost always 100% of the time sides with the buyer, so then the seller is screwed if they are being honest, and the package is damaged. It also turns into heated flame wars, about potential scamming, etc. Which could damage the seller's reputation.

      That's why insurance is so important!
       
      #44 xenokitten, May 21, 2015
    5. I think it's more an act of "Who is this hurting?"

      Dolls are a luxury item. Believe me, I understand the impetus for a cheap doll. I'm perpetually broke and smothered under crippling student loan debt. I feel this in my soul, man. However, I understand the costs of a BJD and that these are small companies busting their ass to give me a luxury product. I don't NEED the doll. I just want it super bad.

      Speeding... there's a level that's acceptable, even to police, at least here in the USA. I can go about 5 miles an hour over the limit and a cop gives no crap. Why? Because it's hurting no one. I'm not endangering anyone with recklessly fast driving. I'm still pretty close to the limit. 5 over or 5 under is no big deal.

      I think that morals are a case by case basis. This isn't the answer that people want to hear, unfortunately. There's not a universal "this is right and this is wrong". it's just too big a world to compare a "Oh i sped a little" to a "I robbed a small company of a 600 dollar purchase". These aren't on the same scale, to me. -shrugs helplessly-
      I think the only real hypocrisy would be someone being all "NO RECAST UGH" and then buying a recast knowingly. that's a true violation of previously stated morals.
       
      #45 TatsuKitty, May 21, 2015
    6. I think the appropriate term is "double standard" instead of hypocrisy. I get seeing art theft as far worse than shipping fraud, I even agree that's true. However, its still wrong, and risky as others have said. Just because one person is willing break that rule and take the risk that go with it does not give them the right to expect other to do the same.
       
      #46 Leo Pheonix, May 21, 2015
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