Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

People suffer the consequences of their actions, intentional or not, every day. I don't really see why this should be any different.

If one finds out they've been swindled, they should file claims and try to get their money back. But regardless of whether they do or not, keeping the recast is still taking money out of the original company's pocket. For us, these are luxury items. We save for them, sure- I don't think the bjd hobby is pocket-change for most of us- but they are not necessities no matter how dearly we love them. The companies, on the other hand, are directly relying on this source of income. This is not buying a knock-off Chanel bag on a NYC sidewalk- every lost sale has a real impact, and they add up. Just because one is not responsible for the mistake initially doesn't mean the responsibility to make it right doesn't exist.

 

Someone just buying based on a pretty picture without actually reading the listing is asking for trouble. Someone buying based off a company photo instead of the actual doll you're buying is ... being foolish, let's say; if it's not from the company itself, they shouldn't be using a company photo to sell the doll. It only takes a moment to ask for more photos and proof of ownership.

Honestly, a little research never killed anyone. As the Safety Reminder says, be safe.

If you make a mistake, deal with it appropriately. There is a correct way to handle counterfeit goods; "keeping the doll anyway" isn't it. Making excuses about how someone didn't know better isn't right, either. If they're old enough to buy things online, they should know better.

 

If there's an identical to legit doll, it comes with paper work and the box from a legit doll (which can happen, I have a Soom pillow from a previous sale where the buyer didn't want it) and it's listed at a legit price. That person also then doesn't find out until over a year later, by which time getting a refund is pretty much impossible.

Personally, if it were me, I'd keep the recast whilst saving up for a legit version of the doll. You can't blame someone for making a mistake, and it's kind of disgusting to do so. Not everyone buys recasts with intention, so don't lump them all together.

 

That's exactly why you shouldn't buy a doll on eBay when you're a beginner in the hobby and instead, stick to buying directly from the company or legit dealers. And yes, maybe you want this beautiful doll RIGHT NOW but - as it's been pointed out, they're luxury items. You don't need it RIGHT NOW. I saved up for my first doll for something like five years (since I wasn't really saving in earnest - could have saved the money in two years, I guess). I didn't have a special doll in mind. When you do, you'll probably manage to save the money faster because you know what you want to buy.

 

So in this scenario, if the doll comes with all the correct "stuff", how does the owner find out it's a recast exactly? If it's got the paperwork, the box, any outfits and things that should come with the doll, who says the doll itself isn't authentic as well? Those are all the usual markers for authenticity for any other collectible. If this is a new owner who "doesn't know better", can they tell the slight difference in weight between the genuine article and their doll? Have they taken apart the doll to compare the casting marks against the genuine article? Companies want to see paperwork to authenticate; how does a newbie know it's not authentic if all paperwork is in order?

Are there known documented recasts that come with repro outfits? Or known recasts in which the recaster bought the outfit, etc to make it look more authentic? All the ones I see on ebay, taobao, etc say outright they're recasts and come as "just the doll/head/whatever", not fullset with box and paperwork. If it's some third-party who is setting up recast dolls with authentic accessories and selling them as "limited doll whatever", that's fraud and grounds for legal action.

If this happens, get the police involved.

 

Exactly! You just can't make assumptions about everyone. Some people think $500 is pocket change and I could see someone seeing a doll on ebay and trusting that it is legit. After all who assumes everything sold on ebay could be fake. I only just recently learned about recasts and I've been collecting for a few years. Not everyone does loads of research on things they like. I just don't like the assumption that someone who bought a recast deserves to be ripped off. It's unfair to make assumptions that people are just like you and do things the same way you do. If the seller does not list that it's a recast then a newbie doll buyer may not find out for a long time if ever.

I completely agree

 

In my experience, people who randomly buy $500 dolls on ebay are those who have collected other expensive dolls for years and generally know what to look for in terms of authenticity (paperwork, box, markings, etc) and also know to ask the seller about the particular doll they're looking at (size, material, company if not listed, etc). It may not be exactly the same as the dolls they normally collect, but they would know who to ask about this new kind of doll they found.

I would like to see this random newbie who went shopping for cheap socks or headphones and ended up buying a $500 doll. I can't think of the last person I know who didn't know anything about these dolls when they bought one. It seems to be very much a planned purchase for most collectors.

 

This is wildly beside the point. The point is: when one learns they have come into possession of a recast, whether by poor research or a convincing seller, what should they do? There is a responsibility to make it as right as it can be- file claims, report the seller, and destroy the recast. Plain and simple.

 

People are funny creatures living different lives and having different financial situations. All I was saying is that it is very possible that someone could buy a recast not know for a long time and to expect them to trash something they paid good money for is not right. I'm speaking of a situation where it's too late to get reimbursed. You can do whatever you want but you can't force others to do what you want. And to judge someone for having a recast they got by accident is unfair. That's all I'm saying on the subject. Clearly we think different.

 

It can happen, of course, that you buy a recast unwittingly. When you find out, however, you oughta do the right thing, imho. And with illegal items, that would be to destroy the item. I myself couldn't justify to myself keeping a recast because for me, "Oh, but I like my doll so much, I don't want to destroy it!" isn't a reason to keep it if it were a recast. Of course I also wouldn't like the doll anymore if I knew it were a recast so it would be not really all that hard to destroy it/hand it over to customs to have it destroyed.

 

How is this different from someone finding out the designer jeans they bought secondhand are counterfeit? Or handbags? No one needs to spend hundreds on a handbag when a cheap one from Target will suffice, but they do and sometimes think they can get a great deal on ebay.

What if it's a fake? What if the buyer doesn't find out it's a fake for a while? I don't see the designer handbag collectors saying to "keep it anyway" -- they are rightfully insulted at the thought of a buying a fake (however accidentally) and demand said fake to be treated in an appropriate manner. They're simply going to be out the money.

This is the same. An artist's work is insulted by the existence of a recast, and yet some people here say, "eh, whatever, keep it if you like it." How about learning a lesson and shopping more carefully next time? It's purely a matter of doing the right thing once it is known that it's a recast.

 

Should someone who buys a counterfeit handbag destroy it? This is news to me, but then again I'm not a collector. Also, what if there isn't a next time? Not everyone can just buy dolls all the time. Sometimes, people can only afford just one. I think that all of this is very harsh.

 

If that money is so precious to our newbie who doesn't know better, then that person should be shopping carefully instead of plunking it down on the first pretty doll they see, right? All the more reason to research before buying.

There is no excuse for not doing the right thing here. "Keep it anyway" amounts to saying that recasts are acceptable.

 

Hmm interesting allusion, but the parallels aren't quite the same. Makers of designer handbags can have extremely HIGH returns from legitimate sales; just look at how much an original Hermes handbag can cost. The fashion world is not the same as the doll-artist world, where sculptors are not as profitable as big name designers. Fashion houses also have diverse ways of bringing in income, such as publications, sponsors, different lines for different tiers of clientele, etc... They are much stronger and resistant than doll companies.

That isn't to say that the purchase of counterfeit fashion goods is acceptable either: I honestly just don't see the point in owning a fake purse etc... or otherwise. But they too are troubled by the counterfeit industry, and it is definitely NOT comparable to dolls: there is a very strict and resolute fashion culture of wanting what is authentic. Fakes are very much frowned upon, especially at the higher tiers, and people have been humiliated for the purchase of fake handbags.

The doll community apart from DoA and select other forums can be rather blase and even welcoming of fakes, without acknowledging the damage done to the original creators. I am the type to research tons before buying a big-ticket item, and even without access to DoA, there is an absolute wealth of information out there. I would like to say that "not having access to DoA" is not at ALL a reason for being caught unawares. In the earlier days of this hobby, there were very VERY few sites with information about dolls at all, most being personal blogs etc... These days the information is everywhere, with blogs, tumblrs, facebook groups, etc... There is no real reason for being uninformed, other than that someone was, frankly, careless.

I understand presently recasts are getting harder and harder to identify, but this should be all the more reason to do one's research.

 

Ok so I said I wouldn't say anything else on the subject but I will say this. I see lots of people saying people should do this or that but no one should tell anyone else what they should do in any given situation if they have not been in that situation themselves. It's really easy to judge others but I have found that when you do you find yourself being wrong about it more times than not. Do whatever you want but do not tell others what they should do. Live and let live. Just don't assume you know everything because you will almost always be proven wrong if you do.

 

.....are you serious right now? Nobody has any right to say what the proper way of dealing with a counterfeit item is unless we've bought one ourselves? Surely you must be joking. This is the most fallacious argument I have heard in a long time. By this exact same logic, I cannot tell someone the proper way of dealing with being in a house fire (move quickly toward the nearest exit, stay below the level of smoke, avoid halls if the doors are hot, etc. etc. etc.) because my house has never been on fire. Do you truly not see how slipshod this is as a way to bolster your argument?

"Live and let live" is not applicable in this situation. "Live and let live", in this case, is a cheap way of saying "I don't give a shit what happens to anyone or anything else". This is that accursed "peacemaker" tendency that I saw trumpeted about in the other bootleg thread, and it disgusts me as much here as it does there.

One need not "assume they know everything" to know the proper way to deal with an illegal item, or to understand the ethical conundrums counterfeiting raises and the effects it has on the hobby and the livelihood of the artists that drive it. "Live and let live"? Really? How offensive.

 

Except in this situation, in which you are required to do certain things (according to the OP, of course). In the event that one buys counterfeit products under the assumption that they are genuine, the buyer must destroy the property and report the seller.

One does not need to have been through a certain situation to have an opinion on it. I don't smoke, but I still inform people that smoking can kill them. Am I wrong? No. I have science to back up my claim.

And even then, I think you have completely missed the point of this thread. The OP is a hypothetical situation, and the poster was asking what we think they should do about it. They are specifically asking our opinions on the matter.

 

You know, it's one thing to go after counterfeiters - I'm all for that. If I found out one of my dolls was a fake I'd try my best to figure out WHO recast it & try to use the doll for evidence to go after them.
However.
If you buy a doll off a seller (possibly a reliable one on the MP - who knows?) who is selling a doll he or she got 2nd hand - some older sculpt that's been thru several owners - & somehow you find out THAT doll is a recast (I have no idea how - maybe it's a doll w/a ID number & the last 3 owners never bothered to check up on it) - then there is not really any way that doll can be used as evidence to shut down a recaster. I'm sorry, I'm not going to just destroy my doll in that case. I'll let people know it's a recast & I won't post pics of it, but don't ever try to tell ME what to do w/my own property. The smugness being shown by some people on this thread is pretty pernicious.

 

I am concerned about this situation myself, as I am a new collector and so confused by the bjds on ebay. I am careful but if I love a doll, I love it Other collectors have already told me that I overpaid for one doll even though it was not a fake. But I love her and isn't that what matters really.

 

Whoa. Nobody is telling you what to do.

I fail to see why people are getting so up in arms about this. The entire recast debate is a catch 22. Either you're pro-recast and you get demonised for supporting illegal activity, or you're anti-recast and you get called 'smug' or 'pretentious'. Either way, someone's cracking the s**ts at you. There really isn't any middle ground anymore, is there?

I'm starting to question why I bothered posting my comment a couple of pages back. Just because I said I'd destroy a counterfeit if I unknowingly recieved one does not mean I or anyone else here is telling you to. No, Paypal is. It's in their terms and conditions. Of course, nobody is hovering over you, making sure you destroy it. In the end, the choice is up to you. Destroy it or don't. But don't call people smug because of what they ​want to do.