Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

Doesn't PayPal want the doll (or whatever the claim in on) back? I know the post office (if you're insured) does. & the police often want it as evidence (thinking now of some other kinds of counterfeit). If you are lucky enough to find out when there is a chance of at least stopping the recasters then do it! Never mind about the loss of the doll (although, nice if you can get your money back).
& yes some posts flat out said to destroy the doll.
Period.
& argued about how the victim somehow should have known.... I was uncomfortably reminded of something else there...
It IS true that there are ways to minimize the risks of buying a recast, but that 1) hardly means that everyone unfortunate enough to get swindled deserves it & 2) doesn't mean that it's impossible to end up w/one despite all efforts to avoid it.

I do understand that some people would destroy the thing no matter - & I myself would too, AFTER I replaced it w/the real thing... But that's my choice - & its entirely because these doll companies are small Mom & Pop kind of operations, so that the nastiness of the recasters just boils my blood.

 

I think most people would replace it with the real deal, if they were swindled out of a genuine purchase.

But yeah, it definitely says to destroy it. I would assume that's to ensure it can't be sold again. Although I reckon turning it in would suffice if it were a non-Paypal purchase.

 

What if the ebayer user owner photos? I've seen that happen before, and someone new in the hobby might not recognize it as someone else's doll. I don't support recasts, but I would feel terrible to tell someone who scraped money together - due to another person's malicious intent - that they should destroy their own property. If it is impossible to receive a refund, then that might be the only doll they ever own, and to have it taken away for something not their fault seems unfair.

 

I know I'm repeating myself but - simply DO NOT BUY DOLLS ON EBAY! The safest way to make sure you get a legit doll is to buy directly from the company or a legit dealer who offers dolls from that company. There's enough BJD-dealers available nowadays that you can probably get the doll of your dreams without having to buy directly from the company if you don't want to do so for whatever reason.

I bought one doll from ebay. When he arrived, the first thing I did was ask in the respective thread here on DoA whether he was legit. I was told that, yes, he was and that he was too old to be a recast. So I was lucky that time but it also taught me to never EVER buy a doll on eBay again UNLESS I know the seller (either from here or one of the German doll forums I'm in) and know they're as strictly anti-recast as I am.

 

But what if someone doesn't have marketplace access? This is all assuming that the buyer is not involved with DoA. Besides the marketplace here, eBay is pretty much the only other secondhand market, and not everyone knows that it isn't very reliable.

 

Paypal requires proof that the counterfeit is destroyed and will usually require pictures as that proof. I've never heard of Paypal requesting the counterfeit item sent to them, whether whole or in pieces.

I suppose it depends on the claim you make whether the police are involved or not. Some people are satisfied with their money back and the counterfeit destroyed and don't press fraud charges against the seller. I suppose you could file fraud charges with the police before notifying Paypal and see what the police require in terms of evidence. Photographs may be enough for them, but they may require the physical doll.

I wouldn't say never never never to buy dolls from eBay, just be aware and keep your eyes open and remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! I've bought a couple of dolls from eBay and it's been fine both times although it is important to say that neither of the dolls I bought were recast targets. One was a Bobobie tiny and the other was an unpopular and discontinued Souldoll mini. If you're looking for a Soom limited or something like that it's probably better to avoid eBay entirely in preference for hobby-centric sites where you can get to know the owner and see their reputation, whereas sellers on eBay can rack up a lot of positive feedback by selling small things and you don't really know how they will be when selling a larger item like an expensive doll.

Unfortunately the DoA wiki is down at the moment, but there is a page with a list of all known copied sculpts. With a list like that you can search for dolls on eBay and at least have something to narrow down the likelihood of turning up a recast. Hopefully the DoA wiki will be back soon, or an alternative found.

I would hope that someone who has seen enough of these dolls to be interested in them and want to buy them would also have some experience of the social side of the hobby, whether it's online forums, social media or joining meets with RL friends who own dolls, because how else would you first learn about these dolls without someone else putting information about them out there to find? Without seeing a BJD by chance online I'd never have any idea what they were and thankfully that blog was really informative and interesting and I found DoA shortly after that.

So, I agree that not everyone knows eBay is unreliable, but eBay is not really the worst place to find dolls in the world. I think if new people are willing to ask questions and more established people in the hobby are willing to give their time and answer in an honest and friendly way that's the way forward.

I don't think it's helpful to kick a person when they're down, but at the same time a little bit of research could have made all the difference. The only way to encourage people to research before taking the plunge is to be open to their questions. I always say the only silly question is the one you don't ask

 

Uh - buy directly from the companies? Buy from a dealer like MOC? And if they don't have enough money for that - save up some more money?
Personally, I wouldn't buy my very first BJD second hand ... I'd also be bold enough to say: When you're interested in BJDs, you'll usually do at least a minimum amount of research on the topic. I was registered with DoA when I bought my first BJD but not very active. I checked in once or twice and then, for quite a while, didn't return here. I only did that after I got my first BJD. But even without Marketplace access and without knowing about recasts, I figured that the safest way to get a (legit) doll would be to buy it directly from the company ...

 

I'm talking about limiteds? You can't buy limiteds from companies. -_-

 

Huh? Of course companies sell limiteds; who do you think designs them?

If you mean older sold-out limiteds, someone new to the hobby isn't going to be interested in those. They are more expensive, harder to find, and require a significant amount of cash investment. Most people start off with standards to "try it out" for a reason. Show of hands: how many had an expensive limited for their very first doll? (Not me; I had a cheap kit to build, not even an assembled doll.)

Go buy a standard from an established company. It's safe, it's easy, and you know you'll get an authentic doll as soon as it's ready.

 

My first doll was a limited; only 30 were produced. It's not like it never happens.

 

regarding the scenario in the first post of this thread, if I were a total newbie and totally unaware of recasting until I joined DoA and was told my doll was recast, I think I'd fall out of love with that doll pretty quick, as it wouldn't be the doll I thought it was, so I wouldn't be able to look at it the same way again. I would destroy it and bin it no problem - I throw money away all the time, and often regret things I bought in the past - usually I give them to charity shops but obviously that would be a bad idea with a recast bjd! Depending where I'd bought it, I'd notify ebay or whatever - although I doubt I'd be able to claim a refund after all that time, especially if I'd destroyed the doll. I think a refund would require me to return the doll to the seller wouldn't it?

I did buy quite a few dolls from ebay when I was a new collector (including the one in my avatar), but being aware of recasting I did research them before buying them - asked the seller where they'd got them, searched the internet for information, searched the company name, compared faceups, considered the likelihood with that particular sculpt, etc. I was told flat out on the doll forum that nobody would bother to recast an Angel of Dream sculpt, when I had doubts about an ebay dealer - but really who knows?

If you buy something in good faith though, and you're not a naturally suspicious person who thinks the worst of everyone, it's not your FAULT for being naive and trusting - Being nice and trusting, because you wouldn't dream of doing something like that, is not a fault, it's a virtue, so it's not right to demonise the victim of a scam just for being too sweet and innocent to be suspicious of everyone. It's the criminal who sold the doll who is in the wrong - not the trusting, unaware, newbie buyer - I would feel very sorry for someone in that position if they loved the doll - it would be so upsetting, like finding out your best friend lied to you or something similar!

 

I'm kind of surprised on how many people make assumptions on what a newbie would and wouldn't do. I mean, in another thread, we see people who have complete strangers who know absolutely nothing about dolls ask to buy them off of them while they walk down the street. Not everyone does tons of research, or any research, before diving in. Some people do just know that they like what they see and go for it. You only know what you would do as a newbie. you might be surprised what other newbies would do, as they may not think the way you do.

It's not wrong to not do tons of research. It's not wrong to be a newbie who wants to start with a limited instead of a standard. It's not wrong to look for a doll on ebay and try to get a deal. It's not even wrong to buy a doll and never join any sort of forum or even do research after the fact. There are probably people out there who own recasts who will never be aware of it because they bought the doll for their own private happiness and don't care about the hobby in general.

I can say for myself, that I knew absolutely nothing about any branch of the doll hobby when I discovered these dolls. I didn't discover these dolls on any type of doll forum or photo sharing site. I didn't research them too much. Why would I? I was willing to pay the cost, and why would it occur to someone outside of the hobby that people might have illegal copies? When I had the money I went to ebay first, because it's always wise to try to be thrifty. I did find a great looking deal: a Volks that had "only been taken out of the box for a single photoshoot" that was know up for a very, very nice price. In the end I didn't get her, but it wasn't because I was suspicious that she might be a recast- because who would recast a doll?- but because I found other dolls on eBay I like better and decided I wanted new instead of used. Ultimately I went to an authorized dealer.

Sure, had I gotten her and had she been a recast it would have been partially my own fault. I say partially because no one who unwittingly buys a recast has the greatest burden of fault in the situation. The one with who the greatest burden of fault is the one who recast it originally. I would also place more fault in anyone who owned it before and had not destroyed it, instead letting it back into the marketplace, whether or not they were knowledgeable before it got into their hands.

Since the question was posed: yes I would also destroy a copycat purse if I found one in my possession. I've destroyed copied CDs and cassettes that have made it to me, and would also destroy games and DVDs. Theft is theft, and I will not knowingly own or allow someone else to own it if it has come through my hands. Legally, owning stolen property, which recasts count as, is a crime. By holding onto it you are technically engaging in a criminal act, even if you are an unwitting party..
While I cannot account for other's actions or ethics, I know where mine stand.

 

I don't own a recast so your anger is pointless. I don't condone owning or buying them either but I do realize someone could buy one by accident and it be no fault of their own.

 

I am so scared of this happening to me! That's why so far I have only bought from the original manufacturers. I feel really bad for people who get fooled like that! It's sad

 

And almost inevitably the person on the street trying to buy my doll from me is convinced I would be delighted to take $20 for it. Their opinion of the doll is radically altered when I tell them how much I've spent on said doll.

In my experience no one dives right in to buy $$$+ dolls unless they're coming in from a related hobby where dropping that much cash in one go is normal (and that person will normally be aware of potential authenticity issues). The newbie who truly knows nothing is more likely to get themselves in trouble because they come in looking for a "cheap doll", so that absurdly cheap recast looks around the right price for what they would like to spend. A little research does wonders.

 

^ Precisely this.

 

Sorry, I have to disagree with the above....I cannot stress how NOTHING I knew about this hobby when I got my first doll. I mean nothing. I didn't know there was a community, I could barely find anything at all because I didn't know what I was looking for. I had to email Dollmore to find out how to change the eyes on my first doll. Like I said, nothing. And I spent $650 on the doll alone, another $200 on clothes, for my very first BJD order ever. The only thing I'd spent more money on at that time was my computer and my car. And since my payments on both were less than half that, I'm not sure they count. I wasn't in a related hobby at all, I didn't even play with dolls as a child, the closest thing I had were action figures, but anything over $20 and I generally left them alone.
The only reason it never occurred to me to look for one on ebay, was because I had no idea there was a second hand market for these dolls, I only thought they could be bought new.

Trust me, a little research doesn't do jack when you have no idea what it is you're researching.

quidam is right. You can't assume that everyone comes into the hobby the same way. It's ridiculous.

Nothing I said here is, however, in defense of recasts. To get back on the original topic, if this was a personal situation and I somehow bought a recast by accident, no I would not keep that doll. I would have to have it destroyed, I would absolutely not want it around at all. I wouldn't even want to look at it. I don't understand the mentality of people who buy recasts because they OMGLOVE THAT DOLL SOOOO MUCH!!1!1!!, because they don't have that doll. They have a cheap, illegal knock-off. It's a fake. It's not a Volks Williams or an Iplehouse Jessica or a Soom Chrom....it's nothing. It's junk. To make matters worse it's hurting people and it's harming the art of this hobby. I don't understand why anyone would want that. And to have gotten it accidentally would make no difference to me at all.

 

I also knew nothing about dolls when I got into the hobby! I'd seen a handful on deviantART, learned the name "BJD" through that, and went straight to eBay to have a look. I was waiting on my first paycheck at the time, and picked a doll, waited, then bought it when I had money. After that, I joined DoA, as I saw people talking about it (very hard to find a site that you know nothing about other than 3 letters) and I didn't even find out about recasts until about 4 months into me owning a doll.
The same person I bought my doll from turned out to be someone who used to sell recasts! My girl isn't a recast, as she's from a very unpopular company, came with her box and CoA, but I could have just as easily bought a recast. Why? Because a number of them sell for the same price as cheaper dolls of the same size (I.E. Bobobie, Resinsoul and Doll-Love), I wouldn't have known prices were different, or that it was a recast, because I didn't know anything about dolls at the time.

So yeah, people who know nothing of dolls are happy to spend $200+ on them.

 

I personally found out about recasts A LOT later after I joined the hobby and honestly, when I joined, I knew pretty much nothing either. Everything I knew was because my friend told me, because she is the type of person to research a lot before doing anything, while I'm the type to just dive in and learn things along the way.
I was VERY surprised to find out about recasts to be honest. It had never occured to me that someone would go and make illegal copies of dolls to sell...!
So, I don't think it's EVER the victim's fault. You can't tell someone "you didn't do enough research", "why didn't you ask?", "you should have been suspicious". No, they shouldn't have to do any of that, because it is the recast maker's fault for making recasts and selling them in the first place. Of course someone who knows about recasts can be more suspicious and if they're not when they see a Volks LE from 2000 for $200 on ebay, then it is their fault in a sense, but that is because they'll already have found about recasts.

Now, to answer the question, I think I'd keep the doll regardless, or gift it away to a friend who can't join the hobby because of financial or other reasons (and who I would trust not to sell it away, of course). I wouldn't sell it, as I woudn't want it to be out in the market and possibly be the reason of someone getting scammed, but I wouldn't destroy it or throw it away. I paid money for it (and even $100 is no small price) so it would be a waste.

EDIT:

I will also say, as I'm slowly reading back on this topic, that I did all my looking-for-dolly search on Ebay, because as a newbie, it was MUCH easier to me as they are all together and I didn't know of every company and dealer out there. I think it's ridiculous to think that people shouldn't look on Ebay when they want their first dolls. Where else would they look if they don't know the companies well and want to see "more" dolls than the 2-3 companies they probably know?

 

It was several months after I first started getting into the idea of having BJD's before I got on DOA and even more time passed before I found out about recasts. I learned rapidly but had I bought my first doll before I joined DOA I definitely would not have known the difference I'm sure. I was cruising Ebay and using Google and I was getting plenty of recast shops coming up and I honestly had NO idea that the dolls on Ebay and that were not legit. I'm a pretty savvy shopper once I get into something, but I could have very easily bought a fake BJD for my first one and never known it was. Many people in the doll collecting hobby just go straight to Ebay when they shop for second hand dolls. That's where a lot of the used and/or older dolls are to be found.

It's so easy to assume that everyone is on here, has access to all the knowledge here, and then condemn people for their ignorance, but it's not really fair because that is just not true. There are many people who haven't yet gotten access to DOA. In fact I've seen them complain about how hard it seems to be able to join here, to get an invite, and how long it can take to be approved. There are a lot of people who come into collecting BJD's from collecting other dolls and in the rest of the hobby knockoffs are not only common but mostly accepted. In fact some boards people love them, make a point of collecting things like fake Blythe dolls or MH knockoffs, so coming from that end of doll collecting recasts would not seem that shocking.

I think that's why some people in this hobby just don't tend to care so much. If you're already used to collecting fakes, and it's never been an issue elsewhere, collecting a fake BJD just might not seem that much different. Clearly many people think it is, but I can see why some people might not. Fake Barbies, older vintage ones for instance can be highly sought after depending upon who makes them. Ditto some fake Blythes. The BJD world is definitely quite different in that respect.