Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

Honestly to me neither of the two iple dolls that you have referred to look much like the people you say they do. The Luo doll does obviously take inspiration from Brad Pitt but the doll doesn't look like him to me other than having a similar jaw and it took you commenting on that to even make me realise that similarity. The Dexter doll in my opinion looks nothing like Micheal C Hall.Clearly that is just my personal reaction to these dolls, and you obviously see a much stronger resemblance but as this shows such interpretations are not uniform and so trying to claim that any doll that may bear similarities with any living person is stealing and in the same league as re-casting doesn't hold weight for me.

As far as re-casting goes I am very much anti-recasts, as someone who had to shut down their business due to unscrupulous people making poor quality knock offs and selling them as the real thing for far far lower prices than I could ever compete with, due to them cutting so many corners and using extremely immoral practices that I would never consider doing, I know first hand the very real impact people like this can have on peoples livelihoods. As a result I have limited sympathy for someone who gets scammed due to not doing their research and then tries to lay all the blame on the scammer as they are partly responsible for their situation, the lack of proper research is common in many areas of expensive purchasing and it does baffle me that people just jump straight to the cheapest option they can find without doing any sort of research and then act surprised when it turns out their bargain isn't what they were expecting. This however does not make people bad just ill prepared and anyone who is scammed doesn't deserve to have their head bitten off by others who were lucky or prepared enough not to suffer the same situation, hopefully they will have learned something from their experience so that the next time they want to get something they arm themselves with all the necessary information before hand.

As for someone who gets scammed or tricked into buying a re-cast through no fault of their own despite having done proper research and knowing the usual warning signs for recast sales like in Galis situation or because the item was sold using photos and information from a genuine doll at full value etc so there would be no way of knowing until the doll arrived with the buyer then I have every sympathy with them, that is a truly rubbish and unfair situation to be in

 

Shailara, I understand what you're saying but still - basically, writing fanfics is profiting of someone else's hard work. You don't have to come up with your own world, you don't have to come up with your own characters - which IS hard work - and you still get praise for your story (well, most of the time). You're not making money writing fanfics (unless you change all the names and publish it as your own novel, like "50 Shades of Grey") but you still get something for it. (And don't get me wrong, I'm writing fanfics myself and enjoy it but I think that if, basically, you're calling making dolls that resemble actors stealing, you also oughta call things like writing fanfics stealing.)

 

I think a lot of people need to step back for a sec andremember that we are a community here. We will have different opinions and those are all valid to the individual. I should probably keep my nose out of this thread, but it just keeps popping up so i read it.
I think basing sculpts off of famous people isn't very different to basing them off a random person in the street or calling on your memory and imagination of humanity. I like fanfics, they're amusing and usually harmless.
I don't like art theft and recasts.
I do feel sorry for people that buy one by accident, as i'm pretty new to the community i can see how this might happen so think they should get support. I would like to point out that they do seem to be getting some support from this site in how to deal with it and i'm sure the mods are human and wouldn't ban without reason.
However, people seem to get a bit aggressive with these types of topics and whilst i can see why in some cases, i think people should still be decent to eachother. I can see how some victims of recast selling could feel intimidated on here.
I dunno, i'm interfering, sorry. I just don't like things that feel unnecissarily confrontational and everytime i see this thread pop up on 'New Posts' it makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

I'm sorry you equate a strong opinion with being "rude".

We may be a community, but when an argument that is factually incorrect is presented, it is rather the responsibility of a community to correct those presumptions. Opinions may be valid to the one who holds them, but stating something as fact that is not actually true is a whole different bottle of seltzer.

The fanfiction argument is tired at this point. It's been thrashed to death in other venues, and it's really not exactly relevant in this particular discussion; bringing it up is a derailing tactic. I also can't see the resemblances that certain parties are insisting on in the aforementioned Iple sculpts; when someone sculpts something by hand, by themselves, using a living human face as a reference, there are bound to be significant differences -- not to mention the fact that the way a doll is painted and photographed can make all the difference in the world. I've seen and held a Luo in person, and "Brad Pitt" was not even on my radar as a resemblance. When it comes down to it, part of the allure of this hobby is the fact that two people can take the exact same mold and churn out results that are entirely different. I would wager nine out of ten examples of any of those sculpts look absolutely nothing whatsoever like the actors certain parties are swearing up, down, and sideways they are exact replicas of.

I'm getting very tired of people justifying recasts and preaching acceptance. It's like they don't even care about the sculptors that drive this hobby, which in turn kind of implies they don't care about the hobby itself.

 

Hobbywhelmed I see. I didn't know that to be honest, its good to know though. I don't do fan art except for very rare cases, so I never looked into it. I just knew that selling fan art is illegal. Thanks for informing me.

Khell I suppose I can see your point also. I just understand that sometimes you are inspired by something and want to show appreciation to it your way, but to me that's different than making profit while at it xD

Tez there's a difference between having a strong opinion and being rude and its in the attitude and the words \ wording you decode to use.

 

This offtopic about fanfic really got me thinking. I mean, I am about to build my whole doll family around a licensed around a licensed topic. Sure I will not be able to make 100 % accurate copied of the actors and their outfits (I will not take the Minimee-route). But you will clearly see where they come from. Now, would doing the right thing to mean to buy only officially licensed products? I do not want to do that, because I want to stay with BJDs. But I will even name them after these existing characters.

 

My first, and so far only, is a 4-year-old limited. He was never on the high end of the doll market, but he is what he is. It does happen. I did not buy him on Ebay and I don't search for dolls on Ebay because of the posts I've seen here and elsewhere about stolen dolls being sold there. In general, I don't like Ebay because of the sheer amount of scammers there (both buyers and sellers). I found my doll on Facebook by posting WTB in a few BJD groups there... and if you're worried about getting a recast then only post in the anti-recast groups. There are other ways to find secondhand dolls than here and Ebay.


I think I misunderstood the original question. If the doll was sold by an Ebay shop as a legit when it was really a recast, then whatever reporting and refunding that needs to be done through Paypal should definitely be done, and if Paypal requires the doll to be destroyed as part of the refund procees then that should be done as well. When someone sells something as anything other than what it truly is, that person is the criminal, not the person who is taken in by them. They are only at fault if they say "Oh well, at least I have a doll now," and don't follow through with Ebay's and Paypal's procedures regarding counterfeit items. I cannot stand scammers and I feel that they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and a person who is out to scam others deserves whatever trouble they get. I would get a refund, destroy the doll as Paypal's policy dictates, and do everything I could to have that shop shut down for scamming. Then I would throw that refund into savings so I could buy what I was originally hoping to get, a legit version of that same doll.

But if the seller is not a shop, is a single person who did not know they were selling a recast, I don't feel they should be punished any more than the newbie buyer who would have been duped. Again, the fault lies with the first person who knew what they had and sold it as something other than what it truly is. In this case, if the doll was priced low by a seller who didn't realise they were selling a recast, I would probably keep to the doll to ensure it wasn't resold. As I said before, there is a huge difference from knowingly buying and/or selling a recast - in this case lying about the doll's status - and just looking for a relatively inexpensive way of getting into the hobby. How many people here look down on newbies for having inexpensive sculpts? It's nearly the same attitude as someone who owns a recast no matter how they ended up with it.

This is exactly the situation I'm describing. You didn't know, the person who sold/traded to you likely didn't know, the fault lies with the person she got it from or even the person they got it from if it's more than just secondhand. You did nothing wrong and you should not be punished for it, and neither did the person you got the doll from. I hope she is able to find justice on her end, and I think your idea to donate the doll to a childrens' home is very noble.

Bottom line: yes, people should do their research before spending a bunch of money on any item, but not everyone does and I don't think they should be punished for that. Go after those who prey on the uninformed.

I am really confused on this as well since I see fanart commissioners in every artist alley at every anime and pop culture con I attend (and I go to a TON of them), and not a single one have even been prosecuted for producing fake art. Also, is it illegal for a person to purchase a blank doll and "create" a look based on a pre-existing character? "Oh look, this is my Edward from Twilight," would you really have Paramount and Stephanie Meyer's managers breathing down your neck demanding you destroy your doll? Or only if you were selling said doll as an officially licensed product in an effort to make a profit off their name, when it clearly isn't?

 

RubySpitfire the reason why you don't see them prosecuted is because 1) the original artists may not know (being in another country and time and all that) 2) it would cost the original artist a lot of money on lawyers etc so they don't trouble with that 3) the original artist doesn't care. I mean, I highly doubt a full time mangaka really has the time and energy to hunt every single fan artist out there (have you seen their schedule? Its crazy)

 

The time/cost factor is a large part of why they aren't prosecuted; another element is the difference in view of fanworks in Japan (take a look at Comiket). That said, more and more conventions are limiting the amount of fanart a seller is allowed to display, usually with percentage rules such as 60/40 (60% original work and 40% fanart); I haven't done an Artist Alley in a while, so I don't know where the current trend of percentages might be, but nearly every convention I attended when I was doing tables had a set percentage in their rules, and generally asked artists to prove they had more than just fanart for sale when they applied for a table.

Using a blank doll to recreate a character for your personal enjoyment is probably better compared to cosplay. It's a creative activity that can be used to replicate an existing character in a new medium, but only starts crossing a line if you sell exact replicas of the garments. (Which, like recast dolls, can be found all over eBay, and like recast dolls, are often of obviously poor quality and a total ripoff.)

 

Keep and love your doll. Noone should affect how you feel about your doll..it's a great thing to be so happy and love a doll

 

If it was a mistake there's no reason she should feel she should have to get rid of it, and it would also be a learning experience. I would just feel bad for her if people weren't very nice to her because of it.

 

Again, I am sorry you think my expressing my opinion is rude. However, if your intention was to silence me or force me to present my opinions in any way other than the most effective one, I regret to inform you that you have failed miserably. If you dislike it, then perhaps you should reassess your evaluations of what actually constitutes rudeness.

Re: character dolls -- I characterize them more as cosplay. I've got three, and creating them is one of my favorite doll-related activities. I don't think anyone could argue that they're exact representations, and I'm certainly not selling them/marketing them as actual representations of those characters. I could take the outfits off and wipe the faceups and they could be any character I wanted. So to me it kind of falls in a different category.

That said, that is tremendously off topic.

 

Actually, they should just get rid of the fake in some way.

Any acceptance (Even if you happen to love the doll, Papermoon ) of recast BJD is making it acceptable. Which is isn't.

I'm unapologetic about being harsh because if more people where harsher about showing their hate about fake BJDs then Recasts won't be as popular.

That said, I'm gonna say that if any DOA member expresses pro-recast comments or sympathies, are going on my ignore list. I don't need to deal/buy/sell to such people who support Recasters/art thieves.

 

^ What Elysion gear said.

 

Expressing sympathy for someone who unknowingly buys a recast that is advertised as legit does not equal supporting recasts.

 

I think Iplehouse put up photo differences of a recast doll vs their own legit doll, just finding those images on the website is a little tricky, but I have seen it.

 

I wouldn't get rid of it. Sure you couldn't post pictures of it here but there are plenty if place
s that would love to see it.

Sent from my N8000_WHTE_CKT using Tapatalk

 

I would have sympathy for them, but none at all if they decide to keep the fake doll.

 

Keep the doll, never mind the haters, shell know better next time. Mistake is over there is no moral high ground, except to notify e-bay of the knockoffs being sold by a seller.