Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

Yea, that's why I was saying it probably would be insulting, I wasnt sure. You are right, I was just hoping for a positive outcome. The recasters technically get away with the money.
@Jescissa, thanks for the info. I am new here, I do create dolls and other artwork for a living, so I do have a tendency of feeling sorry for clients and people sometimes, perhaps too much.
When compared to sending back a knock off handbag to the true designer, I see that it is a bit much, if I had found out my bag was fake, I would toss it. Same as with a doll.
Its about integrity.
I have seen dolls online, that I recognize from the neck down, I made a mental note, to avoid that brand.
I know the two bjd I want, but im going to wait. I cant access the market here, one doll is from Soom, I joined their site, but to dot my i's and cross my t's...I'll double check before any payments are made...
Why is this thread so sad

 

I think this conversation is about more than the ignore list. There's a lot of pages to sift through.

The problem I see is that anyone could claim that they didn't know a doll was a recast and that they made a mistake. Then what? Allow the doll to exsist in the hobby and possibly make its way to DOA? Have the doll show up in meet ups and pass for a legit doll? It's questions like these that end up polarizing opionions around recasts. I think some people have a zero tolerance policy and frankly, we likely need to go that route if we want to keep this hobby 100 percent legit.

I find your "sin of all sins" example a bit short sighted. I might place things like stealing, lying, deceiving and the likes above "hey, I spent good money on something so I should keep it". The exchange of money doesn't automatically erase a wrong. You personally being out of cash is not the big sin here. If you bought a recast accidentally the "sin" is the recast and the lie it represents. That lie is why you're out of cash thus, you should make damn sure it never ever happens again to you or anyone else.

 

If I were her I would keep the dollie I grew to love. And maybe I would coose other sites to post photos. ^u^

 

This is a little offtopic, but, this is one of the times that I really wish that DoA had a Like/Dislike button.

 

Heh I was totally wishing the same thing earlier. Some forums do have a 'thanks' button, it's not quite the same but I was itching for it to be able to show support for the really well thought out and well worded posts I agree a lot with.

 

Reading this thread, Dollabbesse (I think) brought up the idea of sending a recast to the actual company and asking for some customization and paying the company as a way to make the recast a non-morally compromised object.
For obvious reasons, I could see why this would not be very feasible, especially if numerous people decided to do it.

But... this gives me a rather bizarre hypothetical thought. If you strongly bonded with a recast that you thought was legit when you purchased it (heaven knows, I'd be hard pressed to take a hammer to any doll), why not contact the company and offer to pay them? Not for any custom work, but just straight up send the company whatever that doll should have made them.

It would be expensive, sure, and the doll is still a recast and needs to be kept out of the DoA MP, etc. (and the best thing would be to go on record about that doll being a recast)... however, I don't think I could begrudge that person for privately keeping the recast, if they paid the original artists in full and were always honest about the doll's provenance.

That said, I realize this is a super slippery slope and is mostly a fantasy that assumes some very optimistic things about human nature.

 

somnifer - interesting idea!

 

I am guilty of unknowingly buying a recast, I had no idea at the time that recasts were a thing and I am thankful that she was damaged when she arrived, I posted pictures of her with the damage on tumblr and here thinking only that she was a second hand being falsely advertised as new and it was brought to my attention that she was a recast, I was completely enraged an heartbroken an promptly returned her to the seller site who were actually very kind in working with me. But the people who told me about her were very kind and i have not since experienced any repercussions for my folly, for this I am grateful because it seems as though some people in the doll community can be a bit vicious. The lack of backlash and the actually comforting remarks after my mistake is reassuring as a newbie in the doll community and I am sure that I will not buy a recast again. I just don't think it's fair to the company's and the artists that put so much hard work into building their reputation and company for their earnings to be stolen like that. I currently have to very legal, very legit girls on the way and I am just about as happy as a dog up a bone tree.

 

Morphine - that's awful, glad it turned out alright for you! I think most people in the doll community are like me and really do differentiate between someone accidentally buying a recast and someone doing it on purpose. As far as I'm concerned, those people who end up buying a recast by accident (say, because they're new to the hobby and don't know about recasts or were ripped off) do have my sympathy cos if you were going for a legit doll and end up getting a fake, that's just awful. But I do have zero patience with people who buy recasts on purpose. They know fully well what they're doing and that it's wrong.

 

Recasts happen, and if the person in question isn't aware of recasts - or said doll being a recast - it kind of "justifies" it in a way. Atleast to me.

On the occasion that a person intentionally purchases a recast, may it be due to a low income or previous limited edition doll, then it's a different story.
Even still, I would never bash a person for purchasing or owning a recast. It's their money, their doll and they should love it just like any other.

It isn't the doll's fault that it was copied, but the company's, and to a "newbie" or person who simply can't afford (to save for) a fancy doll, I understand it could be a very tempting and attractive offer, especially when being a limited edition that was cancelled long ago.

 

Yah, well - I can't afford a Porsche. Too bad but not a reason to steal one or buy a stolen one for cheap.

I wouldn't call it "bashing" but I wouldn't hesitate to tell a person who intentionally buys a recast and then goes for all those tired, old excuses ("blah blah - too expensive, don't have the money - blah blah - limited edition - blah blah - not available in that colour") that basically always boil down to "I'm ENTITLED to have a doll but I don't want to shell out the money for an original so I'll just get a recast and I don't care I'm contributing to potentially ruining smaller doll companies" (read: pure egoism) in no uncertain terms what I think. And then, turn my back on that person and not bother with them again. Simple as that. When you're doing something that's wrong and you KNOW it's wrong and you still do it - you're just not a kind of person I want to deal with.

There's just no excuse for getting a recast - intentionally, just want to emphasize that again - that I'd ever consider valid. If you can't afford the doll right now, save up for it. It took me five years to save enough money for my first doll. If I can do that, so can you. If you don't want to pay lots of $$$ for a doll, either get a cheaper one or don't get one at all. If you're in love with a limited that's not available from the company anymore - look for it on the second hand market. It's waaaaay expensive? Well, then you can decide whether you love it enough that it's worth getting it or not. If you think it's too expensive - don't buy it. But don't buy a recast either. It's really as simple as that.

 

I couldn't enjoy a recast. I would return it if I could and if not I would give it to my daughter to play with. It's like antique furniture...I love it but I only have a few pieces. I'd rather not have any than own a fake.

 

I agree completely Khell. People's sense of entitlement amazes me. You don't have a right to expensive dolls or limited dolls, they are a privilege. I could understand stealing food, if you had no money and needed to eat, but bjds are about as far from food as they can get.

I had a friend who used the same justifications for shoplifting as people do for buying recasts. He was stealing CDs and videos mostly, using excuses like, "I don't have enough money" and "They charge too much for them". I lost so much respect for him. I kept telling him why I thought it was wrong, and the friendship finally ended when he gave me a bunch of stolen items for my birthday. I would have been happier if he'd folded a piece of paper in half and made me a card.

So I would find it hard to maintain a friendship with someone who intentionally bought a recast, because I have to be able to respect my friends, and I can't respect an overblown sense of entitlement. (Especially when I'm planning on a six month layaway so I can buy the doll I want legitimately!)

People who buy one buy accident though, I feel sorry for. I almost did that when I first found bjds. Luckily I'm an obsessive researcher and learned about recasts. But if a newbie did end up with one by accident, I'd support them keeping the doll if they were unable to get their money back. I'd suggest though, that they keep it for practising customisations and mods and save up for a legit doll.

 

I actually ran across a seller recently selling what appared to be Minifee Chloe's but they were claiming they were their own products...

 

I also completely agree with Khell.

I just want to address two problematic aspects of this argument. First, we're talking about resin here -- not animals, not people, not even plants. Whether you view BJDs as pieces of art, as a creative hobby, as playthings, or somewhere in between (or none of the above), we're talking about inanimate objects. The whole idea of "it isn't the doll's fault" implies that the doll has some kind of sentience and has been wrongly "faulted" by its creation process and therefore "deserves" to be forgiven and "deserves" love, as you said, "just like any other." That position simply doesn't hold water. As much as we may want to ascribe human traits to the doll, it doesn't actually "deserve" anything. It's a piece of resin molded to look a certain way. That's it. Because it has no sentience (and therefore no conscience, no feelings/emotions, no self-awareness, and no autonomy), it cannot be "faulted" nor "absolved" of the illegality of recasting. Should we "fault" or "forgive" a water bottle because the process used to create the plastic polluted the air? The answer is no, because the water bottle doesn't need to be faulted or forgiven -- because it's an inanimate byproduct of the original harmful process. Most BJD collectors are very good at instantly personifying dolls with all kinds of lifelike qualities, but to actually base a recast-tolerant argument on the idea that BJDs have some kind of sentience -- and therefore implying that fault, forgiveness, and deservingness are in any way logical or appropriate -- is a position that is simply not based in reality. Therefore, that is not an effective argument against the very real, demonstrated problems with recasting.

TL;DR of the above: An argument based in Fantasy Land doesn't hold up against a real-world problem.

Second, when you said it was the company's fault that the doll was copied, are you talking about the original, legit artist/manufacturer, or are you talking about the thief who performed the recasting? If you're talking about the former, that's also an untenable position that abstracts away the very real problems with recasting and reframes the issue in a way that benefits recasters. Positioning the blame as the fault of the original company is pure victim-blaming dreck. The original company is in no way responsible for a dishonest, money-hungry, unrelated third party making the choice to act illegally and then profit off said act. The blame in the act of recasting belongs solely to the recaster. Close behind those recasters, though, are the people who knowingly support and create a market for recasts. The blame rests on their shoulders for creating an environment where it's not only possible but profitable for recasters to continue committing theft without so much as a slap on the wrist.

 

I would be very upset about what had happened, but I get really easily attached to objects. I would continue to love my doll even with the guilt of it being a fake... Maybe someday reshell the doll when I had more money but it's not her/his fault s/he made a newbie mistake!

and learning that it was a recast maybe would give the newbie a doll to do mods and projects on once they could afford the real thing!

 

I'm neutral about recasts. That doesn't mean I support the people who recast dolls(as it hurts the original company), but I dont see why people who own one should destroy it. I can understand both sides of the coin. I've been close to accidentally ordering a recast.

I came across a DOD D.O.I. liked online, but the price was very discounted. After being out of the hobby for a few years, I didn't know about recasts until a month ago. Yeah, I'm out of the loop. I was slightly suspicious about the price but considered placing a bid on this doll anyway.
But I decided to contact the seller, asking straight up if their dolls were legitimate or not. The seller gave me the honest and much appreciated reply that their doll was not legitimate, but was also not a hybrid. They also sent me additional pictures of the doll. So if you contact the seller and ask questions, theres a good chance you'll receive an honest answer. All I have to say to new buyers is ASK, ASK, ASK. Any question you have about the doll is hopefully answered honestly, and you can make your decision based on the answers you receive.

 

In that situation it is a newbie mistake. I wouldn't really blame her for it. Maybe for the next doll she will do more research about the legit company and about recast.
If you bought the doll on the secondhand market I personally still wouldn't blame you. It is highly likely that the seller tricked you in thinking that it was a legit doll. But best then warn the moderators or leave feedback that she/he is a con.

 

*points above* Agree definitely with this.

As far as if I accidentally bought a recast and didn't know till much later, like in the prompt question. I would have to say, I'd be very upset, feel ripped off, and probably debate on keeping the doll. It's hard for me, since I really bond with all my dolls pretty fast. I can't imagine selling them. >< If I were to keep it, I'd keep it off the sites and probably never sell it, if I could help it, so the recast didn't make it back into the market. I'd make sure people knew it wasn't legit. Possibly post my story and warn others about whatever company/seller I got said doll from. Also, submit pics of the doll for any Recast databases to help others not end up like I did.

 

As a newbie myself, recasts never crossed my mind at the beginning. And the list of doll companies is large and overwhelming. There are so many companies with similar names and sculpts, i find myself mixing them up.The prices are all over the place too. Looking at the ebay autions, there are quite a few that are in the price range as the real thing. And with no access to the marketplace, I dont know how much a used doll would go for. I personally wanted a new doll to start, but I could easily see a newbie being tricked into thinking they were getting a deal on eBay because the doll is secondhand as opposed to being a recast. After I read about recasts I actually avoided resinsoul a bit because the price seemed too good to be true lol. Same for junkyspot. Their cheesy website made me think it was sketchy. Luckily the doll I fell in love with was from one of the well known companies on here.
If it were my own doll that turned out to be a recast, I would hope that people let me know and not be cruel about. If it was a honest mistake, i would already feel bad and angry at the scammer, being ganged up on by the community could drive me away from the hobby alltogether. As far as destroying the doll, I would do it if required by law or if it was required to obtain a refund (and punish the scammer). But if it was years later and nothing could be done, and i wasnt requirednto destroy her, i wouldnt. I feel putting her into a landfill is just more waste and pollution. I like the idea people had earlier of adding marks to mark her as a fake and destroy her value and give her away to a childrens shelter, or try to recycle her into something else
As far as those who buy recasts on purpose, I have no sympathy for them at all. That sense of entitlement disgusts me.