Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

Of course I question the seller. I even say more - I would have preferred a more expensive purchase in their hometown, before ordering from another country or city. In this case, I can view the doll before buying.
But I have seen pictures of fakes, and very difficult to distinguish from the original. Again - the certificates I've seen, very easy to counterfeit.
I'm not willing to just throw 1000-3000 euros per obscure purchase.

I have some time in this hobby. But still doubt buying on the secondary market. Otherwise, I would not even written in this thread =)

I do this when I buy a doll! But I have a few dolls that are originals exactly as purchased from the manufacturer. They have serial numbers, but these dolls are not checked for legality. Soom base was broken and part of the dolls before now impossible to verify.


In my opinion it is not clear why such things should be dealt with buyers, not company. Why companies can not protect themselves and the buyer against counterfeiting. I think they should worry about such things.

 

No-one is telling you not to buy on the secondary market,

If anything, buying directly from a company actually helps the hobby as a whole. the company gets funds from the sell to continue producing more BJDs, and there is another pretty Dolly out there for someone's enjoyment. and if the doll does get rehomed then the second buyer is assured that they are buying a genuine product.

Again, I encourage buyers to trust their instincts and to stick with places in the secondary market where copies and fakes are discouraged. It gives less of a chance of being stuck with a fakeBJD.


Khell: Yes! Exactly!

 

Rhias, the problem is that it takes the companies time and money to work out new techniques to keep recasters from duplicating them. More subtle things, like the techniques mints use to make money more counterfeit proof, are often expensive to develop, and you have to realize that these aren't big companies. They have maybe ten or twenty employees, they don't have a huge "recast prevention division" to research new things. As it is, it might take them two years to work out a way to make their dolls harder to recast, in and around other things. Since the recasters don't have to put effort into designing things themselves, it takes them a lot less time to figure out how to copy something that's already made.

 

And I did not refuse from purchases on the secondary market.
At the same time I bought only on tested forum. Now I come to the DOA and I hope that I can buy here in the same calm. But no one can guarantee that there is a dishonest person who do not want to sell me a fake under the guise of the original.

Unfortunately, my favorite company is Soom. And two favorite dolls - Cuprit and Beryl. If Soom ever release them in white skin, I always buy them from them. But I seriously doubt such an outcome. So you have to look for them in parts on the forums.

Excuse me, but I do not believe that it is impossible to protect their products from counterfeiting. At least, print certificates on paper with water marks. Believe me, I worked with a similar paper, and I know how much it costs. Having such certificates would be calmer.

 

It's very simple. If you have a doubt as to the doll's authenticity, don't buy it. It is perfectly fine to walk away. Whatever it is will show up again eventually.

 

Doing just that =) But thanks anyway!

 

Watermarks are easier to counterfeit than you think. The problem isn't that it is impossible, the problem is that it takes more time for the companies to develop something than it does for the recasters to copy it.

 

I understand that, but it's at least some chance to get rid of the small sellers of fakes.

 

And companies have been making their certificates harder to copy. But the recasters respond by copying the certificates as well as the dolls.

 

I suggested the easiest option, which first came to mind. I think that if there is a need to protect the product, there are ways to protect her. This step is at least complicated life fraudsters.

 

There is a never ending supply of shameless people willing to take advantage of your ignorance or trust. The earlier you learn that, the less it will cost you in the long run.

Here's an idea. Embed a microchip in the doll head and/or body parts. The information on the chip is unique and would be searchable on a web site hosted by the manufacturer. The best part is, you can take your doll to your vet or pet shelter and ask, "Would you please scan my doll's butt?"

Oh, and I bought all my dolls before I knew anyone was making copies. Lucky me, I think they are all original.

 

Well, here's the deal. That's your opinion. We all have our own opinions, and I am allowed to think differently than you are on this matter. Every single person in this hobby has a different opinion on the matter, so while it is controversial, just because you say "a person who knows wrong from right know they ought to have that recast destroyed" does not make that a fact. I'm going to be honest here, your post was a little bit offensive to me. Implying that I don't know right from wrong? Questioning my morals? And clumping all "younger/newer" people into the same group and saying they all "accept" recasts? Really? You guys are all so busy pointing fingers and being negative, it really ruins it for some people. I respect your right to have an opinion on the matter and of course you can say it all you want, but let's try to be a little bit less offensive towards others.

 

But that's...not what she said. Any of that.

I agree with her "opinion" that the recast should be destroyed, because -- even setting aside the part where it might have to be to obtain a refund -- it's a big fat red light to the rest of the community if it stays in existence. Someone, somewhere along the line, could end up getting taken in by that recast, and the only way to prevent that from happening is destroying it. That isn't "opinion". That's just fact. People can say all they want that it'd never get sold or given away, but there really is only one way of absolutely ensuring that. I'm not saying that to be judgmental, it just really is the one and only way to ensure the recast trail actually ends. It doesn't even have to be total destruction of the doll; there's an example a few pages back of a gal who destroyed the value of the recast, which in my mind amounts to the same thing. (And seriously, I don't get why more people don't get on board with the idea of creative destruction. I could have so much fun with an object that I wanted to destroy in its entirety.)

As for the whole bit about younger/newer collectors -- she certainly did not say that all younger/newer collectors felt that way, and I'm not sure how you managed to parse that out of what she did say. What she actually said was that she noticed that there was more acceptance amongst younger/newer collectors, and as it happens, she's right. I've noticed the same thing and I've got my theories on why this is, but there's almost a generation-gap of sorts, and a lot of the people that are showing more acceptance for recasts are in the newer/younger group. That is not at all saying that all younger/newer collectors feel that way.

 

That's why I said she implied it. Not that she came out and said it. She said "A person who knows wrong from right knows they ought to have that recast destroyed". Therefore, she is implying that if you don't have a recast destroyed in this situation, that you don't know right from wrong, which is the very definition of the word morals. So can you see where I could understand that differently than what she might have meant? Because,to me, it comes off as unnecessarily harsh and definite, as if she is stating it as fact, which it is not.

I will agree with this, I jumped the gun on taking offense to that. I just read it differently I suppose after being offended already from the first part. I really haven't noticed this attitude among different age groups/newer people in the hobby, but then again I usually don't talk about this topic very much, so perhaps it has truth behind it.

I'm just going to point out here that I am against recasts. I don't like them or support them. However I just can't believe the negativity surrounding them in this hobby. I understand how they are wrong/stealing/etc. but in this incident, we are talking about an accident from a completely new member of the hobby. Khell said that she wouldn't even understand how this hypothetical girl could even be bonded with her girl after finding out she was a fake, and I just find that so narrow-minded. People are different, and this hobby has many people in it. You can't just tell someone that they shouldn't like a doll that they've already purchased, bonded with, and grown to love, just because you look down upon recasts. One accidental purchase of a recast isn't going to put a company under. It would take many intentional purchases to put the legit companies under and keep the recast 'companies' afloat, and THOSE are the people you all should be chastising for their immoral behavior. Not these people who are new and just want to be accepted into the community of a hobby they love. Anyways, enough rambling for me. I just don't like all of the finite answers. It's not always so black and white.

 

Well, you're of course as entitled to have your opinion as I am entitled to have mine. As far as recasts go, I'm afraid, there's only one very finite answer for me: If you find out your doll is a recast, the one right thing - in my opinion, I really don't know where you take it from that I'm stating facts; this is a discussion forum so it's mostly about OPINIONS here, not FACTS - you can do is to destroy that doll. In whatever way. Destroy it completely. Destroy it in a way that takes away its value, "maim" it in modding practice, whatever. I, personally, would destroy it completely. Even, as I said above, if it were my most favourite doll of all. And I still don't understand how someone who can tell right from wrong can still like a doll after they've found out it's a recast since my absolute abhorrence of recasts (using that word on purpose) would taint my liking of that doll so much that I just couldn't keep it. It's a complete mystery to me. (But then, of course, I never got that "bonding" thing, either. I like my dolls, yes, and I wouldn't part with them but they're just pretty objects that I own, not my resin kids or best dolly friends or something like that as they seem to be for other people - not saying that to offend here, I just really don't get it.)

 

I hope some hobbyists are aware that companies such as paypal require counterfeit merchandise to be destroyed -- and require proof of said destruction. It is the only appropriate way to deal with a recast precisely because it is in fact a fake. We (the hobby as a whole) don't want such things to ever surface on the market and be "accidentally" sold as authentic.

If it's truly your favourite doll, go buy an authentic doll of whatever recast was accidentally acquired. I am certain you'll enjoy it even more once you have the genuine article.

 

whoa.....separate fact from Personal opinions, Ok

Fact: Recasts do damage to the hobby as a whole.
Fact: Acceptance of recasts no matter how small or minor, is in fact damaging to the hobby.
Fact: Not all people have good morals.

Personal Opinions: Who can say that someone might be tempted to pass off a fake as the real thing in order to make more money off it? If a buyer of recasts claimed to have good morals they wouldn't have brought one in the first place.
Personal Opinion: I don't care if someone on the internet things my opinions about this are harsh. I, myself hate recasts, and hate even more people who buy them. People who accept them are the worst because one person accepting a recast is supporting and/or turning a blind eye on the thieves and their illegal activities. Which to me is a sign of having little to no morals.

Fact: Some Doll Companies are in fact, are seeking out and are going to shut the recasters down, I do know one of them is Iplehouse.

Personal Opinion: I think that people should be more vocal if they are against Recasts. There is no Gray area as far as Recasts are consered.
It is still in my opinion that the hypothetical question in the OP should be answered with this:

" The girl should try everything to get her money back, weather she to get her funds back or not, she should destroy the doll, no exceptions."

Weather or not she had bonded with the fake, is of little consequence. The Doll is a fake, it's continued existence is a threat to the doll hobby.

 

I understand why some people feel the way they do since everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But this recast business, or in retrospect, "the copying of someone else's art" is especially sensitive to people who do creative work.

I have had someone try to copy a drawing that I did, not like she was trying to draw something similar, but she actually put a piece of paper over mine and was actually "tracing" it, line for line. I guess I should be flattered that she liked it so much, but the fact is....I found that act extremely abhorrent and left a really sour taste in my mouth. I asked her rather firmly to destroy her version. I also found the same girl riffling through my art folder trying to look for things to photocopy. I know she'll never sell it coz they weren't great pictures or anything, but if she ever tried to, man will she be in trouble.

And this is exactly the problem. Someone trying to copy someone else's work, versus someone copying someone else's work so they can go sell it. I let it go because I knew she wouldn't get a dime for any of the stuff she stole. For BJD companies, that is not so. When people support fake stuff...I guess they never think about the artist and how much effort they put into their work or how much it actually kills them inside. It really puts a damper to the artist's creativity.

This, of course, doesn't answer the original question. And it's a real hard question to answer coz everyone has a reason for what they do. The girl who couldn't draw and needs to steal other people's artwork coz they love it so much. Myself who would rather destroy a piece of bad artwork then let other people see it or have it. The doll makers who spend back-breaking hours trying to create something and trying to eke out a living. The recast companies who are just trying to make a living and thinking that it's okay to steal other people's work coz...they don't know what copyright and trademark laws are.

Although IMO, it's probably going to change very soon. They are learning that fake stuff is bad and real stuff is good. I've visited Taobao websites where there are large letters saying stuff like "Do not steal our pictures." or "Do not copy our clothes." They're kind of learning that copying hurts the original creator. Hopefully...it'll be sooner than later.

 

While I agree with those who say recasting hurts the hobby, if I accidentally bought a recast that I loved, I wouldn't destroy it. I'd keep it and play with it and make clothes for it, but I'd probably be less careful with it than a 'real' doll, and use it to experiment with modding and repeat faceups, and take it to places it could get dirty or damaged for photoshoots without worrying too much. If it came with a fake certificate, I'd destroy that so there was no chance of it being sold as genuine in the future, and if a time came when i didn't like it any more, it'd probably end up stored in my loft with my old junk, or I'd maybe give it to a child to play with who would love it and actually use it and not care it was a fake.

I'd also be very vocal on here/anywhere i could be about how it was a fake and not to buy from that company, and if possible, try to get my money back. I think once it's made, the damage is done, and so long as I didn't ever try to pass it off as real, or give/sell it to someone else who would do that, it wouldn't affect the hobby or the profits of the real artists/designers. Maybe knowing it was fake would stop me liking it so much and I'd just use it for designing patterns or making wig caps and not care if i scratched it or got glue on it or immediately give it to the kids who live next door, but if I did still love it after I found out, I certainly wouldn't actively destroy it.

 

If I already made the mistake and loved the doll anyway I would keep her. If I wasn't attached I would try to report the seller and try to get my money back.

I would probably not post photos of her anywhere really because I've seen a lot of people get A LOT of hate over recasts. Or If I did I would tell people that I was misinformed and it seemed legit.

I probably almost fell into this trap a couple of times - but thankfully not.