Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

I agree with you, I think it would be open to abuse. It's better to have one flat rule for all than bend the rules here and there for a few and open the floodgates. A person who loves their copied doll can still enjoy them and take them wherever they wish and put photographs of them on their blog or website or Flickr...just not here. Them's the rules and being unable to participate with that doll here doesn't mean that the owner can't participate at all. There are lots of people here who don't own any dolls and they aren't shunned.

I have been very lucky with both my interactions on eBay. My girls are genuine, but that's because I also found them here and checked their reps on eBay and knew that the sellers were trustworthy with excellent reputations on eBay and DoA.

I think it is probably better to buy direct from the company, but if you have access to DoA or Bad Dolly Deals on livejournal, you can easily check a dolly seller's reputation outside of eBay and see any aliases they may have. If the seller is someone who has no reputation or is completely unknown to the BJD world I would be very wary.

 

I think the main issue of any leanency to accepting copies is the potiental abuse, as skwerlie said.

At the same time, for those few rare people that -really- didn't know, they should just keep the doll and keep it off of DoA. I don't see any reason to get rid of a doll unless you don't like it anymore--And you would have to say that it was a fake when selling it, and not many people are going to want that, which causes even more issues.

If they were told that their doll was a fake on DoA, they may run off and feel really bad about it, but I would hope they would come back and still try to participate without that certian doll, and still keep in contact with the friends they made.

I agree that people should really just try to buy directly from the company to avoid this issue all together.

 

Personally, I'm a fan of chinese knockoffs. And Mexican.. when I was in Mexico I bought a pair of sunglasses I learned were fake Louis Vuittons. No, I've never regretted getting it so cheap. If the QUALITY is there, and I feel the price is worth the quality, I would buy a chinese knockoff doll anyday. Problem is, most of them have poisonous resin and are just really bad QUALITY and not quite low enough a price to buy them instead. Say one was 98$.... Oh yeah.. I'd buy it... And I'd say hah hah suckahs look at my cheap good lookin doll. Now passing off a knockoff as a real one is a whole nother ballpark which is really bad morals in my world. I tell everyone about my 8$ Louis Vuittons (They say LV on them, I just didnt know the brand till my friend googled at them) cause I'm a bargain shopper. Haw haw haw! (However I spare no expense for perfection. I have a lot of VERY pricey dolls. If I could have gotten the knockoffs for $98 I wouldve)

 

I think this is an important point.

My Fairyland Puki I'm fairly certain is made of quality resin, but she came with a warning that the resin could irritate skin. So I dread to imagine what a cheap resin might do to the skin.

 

As has been stated before, there are plenty of ways to get a bargain without supporting knockoff dolls. There are several companies that provide original dolls for a low price... I feel like I'm just beating a dead horse on this issue, as there are several threads about it on DoA already. The topic of THIS debate is what would happen if someone bought a knockoff by accident, not whether they would support the company knowingly. There are other debates and GD discussions for that.

If the situation in the opening post did happen to someone (likely someone new to the hobby, who doesn't know about the BDD community on LJ, or hasn't had the chance to do too much research), I agree with the consensus of just keeping the doll off of DoA. If they REALLY bought it unknowingly and formed an attachment to it before they discovered it was a knockoff, that is. The damage has already been done, the company has already been paid. But I also agree that there should be no exceptions to the ban of bootlegged dolls. There really is too much of an opportunity for abuse of any leniency.

However, if it happened to me, I'd likely save up to buy the "original" sculpt that was bootlegged and replace the knockoff... even if the original was super-limited and expensive. I have an overdeveloped sense of guilt. I'd probably use the first knockoff doll as extreme modding practice.

 

If it were me, I would continue to cherish the doll despite it's being a copy and try to put the whole situation out of my mind. I would remember that as an individual I have the right to enjoy my new baby for what he/she is and nobody has the right to make me feel guilty about it. These would be unfortunate circumstances but I'd accept them and cherish my doll. It being a copy in no way makes it less worthy of love. On principal and out of the utmost respect for the companies who originally produced the dolls, I would not support such trickery knowingly. I do not believe in stealing from other artists. The illegal copy would still be mine after it was all said and done, so I would just take the little darling as it is. I also do not believe in berating any individual for an honest mistake. I would not demand that this person rid themselves of the copy because of what it is. That is in no way constructive or compassionate. If I knew it was a copy I would want to alert them so they would not continue to post pictures of it on DoA but I would not feel the need to drown them in guilt and shame. I think it would be helpful if there was a guide for members who have little to no experience with bjds to help them discover the signs and notable differences between originals and copies.

 

Sorry.. I don't get the "humble" part here? Should she cover her head in ash and apologize to the world that she bought a doll she didn't *know* was a fake? That's... a little.. erhm.. Well...

When I got into this hobby I was astounded by the DIFFERENT prices on dolls. And it was part of the reason why my first doll was a DollZone - behold, an affordable doll!

I did ask in a forum before buying it. Not because I suspected it to be a knockoff/copy but simply to check if the resin quality was ok.

I've later found several dolls that - eventhough they're NOT copies, and NOT anymore harmful than any resin doll - makes DZ seem overly expensive. Both D&D and Bobobie makes lovely dolls at half the price of for instance Volks. So.. Saying that people should be instantly on guard just because a doll doesn't cost $700+ is rubbish. There's so many price levels for these dolls and if you're a noob to the hobby (like I was.. my daughter got her CP doll, I fell in love and within a week I'd bought my first - not REALLY checking anything other that DollZone wasn't known for using crappy resin)

Not everybody "reads manuals" - not every doll-owner frequents this place. And not everyone knows that copies even exists! So why be on guard?

eBay is a place where you can ioften get a really good bargain on everyhthing else, so I wouldn't be suspicious if I found a cheap doll there. As a matter of fact I DID check eBay for a cheaper doll when I started looking for one, but was sad to see that they were as expensive there as everywhere else...

So call me cheap and stupid, but HAD I seen a "copy" at the time, and the mold appealed to me, I would have bought that. Not even giving the possibility of bootleg a second thought.

 

How in the world did you get that out of what she said? How about "humble" rather than "arrogant".

 

i think even if i bought a knock-off by accident, i really couldn't give a flying monkey what everyone thought of it because it's my doll and that's all that matters, even if i can't post pictures of it on a forum. if someone did buy a knock-off without realising until later, then they shouldn't let the opinions of people on a forum affect what they are going to do with the doll.

ok, it does affect the hardworking companies' business, but if it was an accident then it was an accident and the harm is done, big deal. if she bought the doll and she loves it, it's her doll for god's sake. fapping over pettiness in her face on a forum is just mean and i know there are a selection of people on DoA that would probably go out of their way to give her grief over it.

 

Oh, I love you for saying just that. ^^

Since in this hypothetical situation, if the girl who genuinely didn't know, and people start saying nasty things to her which INCIDENTALLY don't help the situation at all. (Notice how really nasty, snobbish, arrogant, lets-get-at-the-newb comments never do), I think it would have given me a reason to stay away from the forum for a bit. She shouldn't, because she could learn a lot, but you can just imagine how off putting that would be for anyone.

 

well you're right! i mean, it's off-putting for some people to recieve even the slightest rude comment. i would be offended if everyone started pointing fingers at me and accusing me of 'supporting knock-offs' but it wouldn't make me love my doll any less.

i'm not going to name names, but there is one person whom i occasionally speak to and they've actually ceased posting here because they were upset about what someone said to them.

 

well, in my case it would probably be a him XD
I really don't like girl bjds 99% of the time
but you better bet I'd be keeping him and posting pictures of him in my blog and taking him to meet ups and bragging about him xp
if someone had a problem with it they could politely state their issue and I would quite happily ignore it XD

 

All of this is hypothetical what-ifs.

The fact of the matter is, in regards to someone accidentally buying a knockoff doll and posting him or her here on DoA and what may come of it and what should they do about it...

Concerning being able to post about their doll on DoA, it all boils down to if they're caught and what the MODS will do about it, yeah?

For all other intents and purposes, if you've already bonded to the doll... then why not keep it? Not the doll's fault and not your own fault either if you bought him or her as a knockoff by accident.

 

I don't understand why:

a) she should feel the need to become penitent when she was the one screwed. The company should do so, not her. She didn't do anything wrong. What newbie to a hobby would think there are fakes floating around? It's not something that would even cross someones mind. Getting rid of the doll is ridiculous and doesn't change a thing. Its has nothing to do with "morals".

b) people would be so rude and nasty as to badmouth her, at least after it was clear she didn't purposely purchase and show off a fake, and I think people should give someone like that the benefit of the doubt before ripping them apart.

I feel really bad for this hypothetical person.

As per the rules, she wouldn't be allowed to share photos on DoA. Otherwise, she should go on loving her doll, if all the people here who hypothetically tore her to shreds didn't completely ruin the hobby for her.

 

Aye. Only monsters would dare raise ire against someone in this position and demand that she sacrifice her doll on the pyre of righteous nerdrage - before going out ond humbly seeking an approved doll. Its fair enough that the Board wants to keep such copies out for the community, but the baying for blood we can do without.

The only things that truly matter here are that:

a: the person in question has been raised to a level of awareness regarding doll piracy.

and

b: that they can do their part by identifying the outlet suplying the iffy merchandise (without being asked to have their own offending doll dragged out before a firing squad).

Yuko.

 

Beautifully put.

I didn't realize knockoff BJDs existed until a bit after I'd bought my first doll, so it easily could have happened to me -- there are plenty of legit companies out there I hadn't heard of, and it could have been 'just another small company I hadn't heard of'. I'm glad and lucky it didn't happen to me. I'd have a hard time damning someone for having worse luck, though, or for not knowing about sites like this one to read up.

If I didn't have long chunks of time during which I can't leave the screen and I can't really do anything incredibly productive except watch a progress bar, I probably wouldn't have done as much reading up as I did before buying, either. That's something of a luxury, too -- time to do plenty of reading and research -- and not only do plenty of people not have that, but plenty of people don't necessarily realize they should do much research before buying, too.

 

Here's what you do, keep the doll and continue posting on DOA, but make very moody, obscure pictures with the doll half-emerged in shadows. Then explain that the doll is just extremely emo. They'll never be able to tell.

Heh, no, I'm kidding. As people have said, if the person in question was unaware they were buying a knock-off then they should still love it and keep it like any other doll, because they just spent their money. They should have something to show for it. It's different for the company who ripped her off, and for people who knowingly buy a knock-off.

 

While not a doll, I did accidently buy a chinese guitar off ebay. The seller had 100% feedback, was knowledgable about guitars, the photo's of the item they told me where of the actual guitar they were selling. The price was $1500, would have cost me about $1650 in a store. It also was a brand that I would have never suspected people would make a copy of, it was not a gibson or fender. I have played guitar for 18 years so I'm quite knowledgable about guitars.

I loved that guitar when it arrived, it played wonderfully, stayed in tune perfectly, but then I started to notice little things, after talking to other owners. it had clear coat on part of it that it shouldn't have had, there was a slight discrepancy in the angle of one of the paint lines. There where also things about this guitar that where better than they should have been. I entered the serial number into a database and it returned corrupted.

After much research I managed to track down a guy in China who made my guitar, he confirmed he had made it and was distrought he'd got the serial number wrong. He was selling them for 190 usd

I reported the ebay seller to ebay, I contacted the counterfit police in my country. I contacted the company that the guitar was a fake of and reported the seller to them.

I could not get my money back. I cannot sell the guitar because it's illegal to sell and also immoral. It has been so much struggle for me to accept this guitar, as it reminds me of being scammed everytime I looked at it.

On the positive chinese are very talented at copying things and it was a copy of a supierior model labeled as a lower end model. So it's made of better materials than it was spose to be. I can't question it's quality, but I will never love it because of how it was acquired.

I feel for anyone who has something similar to this happen with a doll, it's not always the consumers fault.

edit: what I think DoA should do if they don't allready is have some easily accessible information in a sticky on fakes, how to tell them apart, how to avoid them.

 

This hypothetical situation happened to me; I purchased the same Phantomdoll as Dezarii, through the artist's preorder only to find out after receiving him that his body was a mish-mash of recast parts from different companies. I was not new to BJD, but simply deceived by a clever choice of parts and modifications. It was very upsetting to learn the truth about him. Phantom was a respected artist, so I had no reason to suspect deception.
I adore the dolls sculpted by the original artist and hated to see his work copied, and so poorly, too. But I was also upset that I paid so much for this doll, where most copied dolls are sold very cheaply! I was never called out on public forums for owning a 'copy-cat' as I like to call him, but instead made it known myself. I wanted the truth about the dolls to be public knowledge, even if it did mean the dolls were banned from DoA.

That said, I do love him a great deal for what he is. I have a very strong emotional attachment to him, and wouldn't ever feel right selling him even with full disclosure about what he is. I do take him to some public meets, and always introduce him as 'the copy cat.' I am careful about letting people handle him however as my doll is particularly fragile and poorly made. Others seemed to be a bit more sturdy than mine.



An aside, but about the toxicity of cheap resin; My Rasendo girl made me very ill when I wet-sanded her outdoors, wearing a respirator. Her resin smelled very strongly of pine, and is filled with air bubbles. I have also sanded Blue Fairy, Volks and Luts resin, and never reacted to those mixtures. Cheaper resin includes noxious additives! Please be careful when working with them.

(Last, regarding eating resin; I was at a meet once when a stranger unexpectedly put my doll's hand in her mouth and sucked on it. I was horrified and revolted! )