Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

ok firstly i do not support bootlegs, rip offs or any other makers who to be fair are just plain robbers of other artist and makers designs. i would never recomend a bootleg or post photos of a bootleg but i do own one - because i did not know!!

when i was new to this hobby i did not know about den of angels. i discovered bjd'd while searching for a wig to fit on an ashton drake baby i have, his hair was sparce and i wanted a better wig to make him less bald! lol

i saw ebay listings for some really beautiful wigs, i typed in what looked like letters and found obitsu which lead me onto other dolls. as time went on there was a listing for a resin bjd i did not anything about any makes , nothing at all and i purchased her. i began buying clothes and looking at other listings and was told about den of angels. then from den of angels i found she was a bootleg. i did not have a clue but i still own her and do not show pictures of her. she is lovely in her own right but she is not a make she is a bootleg and i would not recomend buying them or show her off in anyway. she sits here and will not be sold but if i had to part with her i would be honest and say but that will not happen as i feel she is best just here not adding to that market. i feel that bootlegs are wrong and its a shame people have to make bootlegs, i did get caught out and now im alot more informed and would not get caught so easily - fingers crossed never again! lol

i must point out i do not support any bootlegs! just i did get caught out and when you do not know it is so easy to get caught.

 

I would be horrified to find I had unknowingly bought a bootleg doll. I do not support people who rip off legitimate artists and if someone is cheap enough to knock off a sculpt, what else are they skimping on? The bootleg might be poisonous rather than just inferior quality.

I do think that when you are making a big purchase for a luxury item sight-unseen, you need to be careful and do your research. It protects you as a consumer and it also protects other consumers who may buy the doll off you at a later date. We owe it to ourselves and our fellow hobbyists to keep the hobby legitimate and focus on company-made, legitimate dolls.

To those who think it's easier to buy a cheap bootleg and pass it off as the real thing: save up, buy the real thing. It's a nice feeling to place an order for a doll with the company, when you've saved up every penny for him/her. It feels even nicer when the doll arrives, factory fresh, in the company's special box, pillows and papers. You're not paying more because the company want to charge you extra, you're paying more because they've created a doll that you love and you want to put money into their creative team so that they can keep on producing great dolls. Money that goes to bootleggers does not go anywhere near anything that supports creativity and artistry. Support bootleggers and you support the death of this creative hobby because companies that lose money go bust. No companies, no new dolls.

 

They should keep it.

As long as the owner loves it for what it is. It doesn't matter if it is a copy or not!

But they shouldn't post pictures of their doll on the internet or encourage others to buy from the company.

This also is a valuable lesson for the owner of the doll too!

 

I would keep the doll. Although the owner would not be able to post the pictures to any BJD forum, he or she already learn the lesson and got ripoff by the dishonest company. What is done is done, I doubt there is a way to get the money back and send the doll back. I would say love it still and save up to get a real one. Probably later one, the owner can take pictures of the two mod or write the detail description on both to teach people the difference between the real and fake. just has to be really careful and do a lot of homework before buying something like BJD.

 

I belive that if you love your doll, you should keep it, but use the lesson to avoid making the same mistakes again, and teaching others to avoid that kind of situation. It would be very hard to discover that the doll which you love is a fake.

It is better to be very careful in this hobby.

 

As an artist myself who has been the victim of such ripoffs by other companies, I agree with most who post here. It is not the buyer's fault for being tricked into buying a copy. I would never blame her for the purchase, or for loving the doll. Nor would I blame the doll. It deserves love and a home regardless of the sins of it's makers. It's the creator that is solely to blame in my eyes.

If it were me, I would certainly keep the doll, and love it as it deserves. I would also expose the ripoff artist so others might learn from my mistake. And I would likely be even more cautious in the future...though with a second hand doll how can you honestly know when someone is lying to you? It is a difficult problem with any used or second-hand merchandise.

I would of course no longer discuss my doll or post about her here, as DoA has every right to its own rules and I would respect them. But I would certainly not punish the doll or get rid of it. And I would definitely try to expose the seller both to the public and the rightful doll creators who are being ripped off.

 

The girl should keep the doll and love it.
I am not the type of person who gets my toes wet I jump in and so if I got a bootleg doll I would still love it.
Besides you could show it to others and so they could learn what to look for so in away she could help other doll lovers!
Its not the girls fault its the people who made the doll and knew it was a lie.

 

The girl should most defiantly keep the doll. If she's grown to love this doll so much, she shouldn't mind the nasty comments, and just keep loving the doll.

 

I'm sorry, but I must say I would tell people that are raging at me to mind their own business. It's not a person's fault if they bought a copy, a lot of people have trouble telling the difference, and normally you don't know until you have the original and the copy to compare them side-by-side. Who's to say it's a copy, or perhaps just a modded doll? How can they know the difference? Sorry, but they simply don't, until they have the experience and other dolls to compare it to. I don't think you can really get mad at somebody for accidentally buying a copy unless they had specifically searched out for it.

I used to be really good and recognizing heads, companies, and even fakes. I lost interest in BJD's for years, and now I can hardly recognize any of them, especially with all the new molds and companies out there. Plus, some companies from back in the day are no longer around.

So in the end, not being able to share and enjoy their doll to a more full extent just because it's a copy is punishment enough. You can't force somebody to give up their doll, even if it is a copy. Unless you want to buy them an original doll, all you can really say is "I'm sorry, but it appears your doll was a copy. It's off topic for these forums, but we hope you stay and enjoy your time here anyway!"

 

She should keep it, beyond a doubt. It sucks that people here would make a girl feel guilty about jumping into the hobby quickly, but with so many legit and non-legit companies popping up daily, how is a newbie supposed to know the differences some more experienced people do? Also, I know it's frowned on to intentionally buy knock offs, but at the same time, as a society we accept knock off purses and shoes (how many people have walmart chucks or "adidas" with only 2 stripes?)? How is this really that different? So, you can't share on DoA. I can't share my hujo on here either. I still enjoy her oodles. I may not be comfortable buying a knock off (but then again, I don't even like some of the legit cheaper companies due to quality issues), but I also don't think someone who does because it's all they can afford should be really frowned on.

It's one of those things. I rather support mom and pop shops, local farmers, and true artists. But that's me, and that's my set of shopping values. Someone else may not care about any of this, and that's their choice.

tl;dr let people enjoy their dollies without anger towards them. Not sharing on here, and multiple other forums should be punishment enough.

 

It's interesting and comforting to see the compassion extended to a newbie. Somehow I doubt this same good will would apply to someone whose been collecting awhile, someone the community feels "should know better". However, I wonder if it's fair to equate time in the hobby with knowledge of every doll produced past and present. It's pretty easy to get snuckered and the only real indicator of a fraud might be the deal is simply too good to be true.

 

Definitely keep it, definitely love it. Forget about DoA. DoA tries to maintain professionality and the only reason copys are banned is to uphold a professional standard and to keep sellers that produce copys out.

Knock offs are everywhere. You see knock off purses, knock off nendoroids, knock off anime figures, knock off shoes, sunglassess, whatever. But if you have a copy, no one goes "Get rid of that thing!" NO! And the fact that she didnt know makes it even more acceptable. She as a customer has every right to purchase something. Of course, the legality may be questioned but that is another matter. DoA is made up of people with opinions, and frankly, some opinions are less than desirable (mine included ;D).

She shouldnt have to get rid of her doll. Of course adhere to the DoA rules, after all each forum and place has its own set of rules that should be followed. The only rules on DoA for copys is "dont post dont sell dont mention". Not "if you have one get rid of it now". Cherish what you have, and you can be wiser in the future.

 

You know, I'm wondering how many people would buy an engagement ring without doing their research-- just see a pretty one on ebay and purchase it without knowing a thing about cuts, carats, color, clarity? And how many, once ripped off would try to sell their fake diamond ring as real? And how many would be happy to wear that fake ring and pretend it was real, knowing they paid a fair amount for something falsely advertised?

I think the answer to the above is "very few." (I hope so!) I know I wouldn't be able to walk around wearing something sold to me under false pretenses. I would feel sad, and foolish every time I looked at it. And angry, too! BJDs are luxury items, too. We don't need them, so why not take the time to make sure you are not throwing your money away?

Read. Ask questions.

There's a huge difference between a recast/bootleg and a knock-off. The maker of a recast is claiming their doll is a Volks/Dollshe/Soom/whatever, or stealing the exact design of a doll. Someone is making money using false pretense. They are committing fraud. A knock-off of a Coach or Gucci bag doesn't claim to be either, and isn't identical to the original. It's infringing on copyright, most likely, and is also unethical, but the buyer is aware of this-- and chooses to buy anyway. In the first case the buyer is a victim, in the second case an active participant.

 

Maybe it's because I live right by NY, but more often than not Coach and Gucci bootlegs (not knockoffs really because just about everything on the face of the planet has a knockoff brand) claim to be a company brand from what I see. Bootlegging is just something that happens with art unfortunately. I have had my art stolen and it isn't a nice feeling.

Aside from that though, I think it is a bit harsh to place blame on the buyer because although I do not own any bootlegs, when I was first getting into the hobby I wouldn't have thought twice about buying something cheap going to myself "Gee, I sure do wonder if this is fake!" The fact that bootlegs even existed wouldn't have crossed my mind at the time, nor would it have been something I set out to decode. I actually didn't even want to join DoA before I had a doll simply because I thought that it'd be pointless trying to fit in among people who have been in the hobby for so long (even though I ended up joining before my first doll anyway).

I think the girl should definitely keep and love her doll, and if she feels upset or guilty, then she can sell it under proper labeling and for an appropriate price.

 

To the first point, some people don't realize that a board like this exists. In fact, I'd say a lot of dollie owners and enthusiasts don't. And in all honesty, when I was first going into this hobby, beyond this particular board, I hadn't seen a whole lot of information on them. Sizes, sure. Molds, sure. Differences between copies and real macoy? No. It's something you do learn with experience more so than reading here. Why, I've been in this for a while, I could still buy a copy tomorrow, off this very board, from someone who mistakenly bought a copy who didn't realize it. Same with you. Same with nearly anyone. People may pride themselves on knowing knock offs from the real thing, but I think it's honestly impossible to know every knock off from every real doll, especially, like I said before, with so many smaller companies popping up. And maybe 3 or 4 months down the road, someone else may realize it and point it out. Or I may get it and realize it by resin quality or something similar that the original owner didn't see (or they were being shifty, but that's another thing!).

As for the purses and other things. As many knock off companies that admit they're not the real thing, there's twice as many who sell near identical knock offs while under false pretenses . The consumers, once again, may or may not know this. But unlike with dolls, we accept people willingly who buy a knock off gucci purse from the second company without hesitation.

My whole thing with this is, I care about artists. I buy from legit companies. If someone else who loves and wants to enjoy dolls buys from a copy company, I'm not going to judge them. And that's my choice. Just because I don't do it, doesn't give me the right to look down on someone who does.

 

Really? Because when I google "BJD" the second thing that comes up (after Iplehouse) is the wikipedia article which clearly links DOA as a the largest BJD resource out there.

I grew up in NYC and one of the first things I learned as a kid was that if the price was too good to be true, the item was probably a fake (or stolen). So I'm not quite getting where you're coming from. The Gucci bag bought from the Gucci store-- probably real. The one bought at that discount store in lower Manhattan, or from the guy with the blanket outside an office building... probably fake. Same with Craigslist, etc. And it extends to ebay, as well.

 

I'd keep the doll and love it like all my other dolls. I can just post it on my flickr and multiply account and put the correct label. There are a lot comparison threads there and sometimes doll collectors purposely buy fakes just for comparison especially if it's a really good knock off .

 

I'm not saying anything about learning what's what. I'm just stating that The word "knockoff" is what you were responding to, and I was putting in a comment about how things went beyond knockoffs in the bag case as well. It wasn't an argument, it was rather just a statement of me saying how I've seen many bootlegs. Not saying that bootleg purses were so confusing and how could anyone possibly know the difference because that would be silly. I was simply responding to what you wrote. No need to talk to me with that tone, please. I know what I am saying as well as you do.

That being put aside,

With dolls there can be a huge price difference (take Rs and soom) and people who are new probably wouldn't be associated with the dolls enough to be able to discern the difference between a cheaper company and a bootleg company, and might just think that the bootlegs were the cheapest they could get.

 

Um, what tone? My polite tone? Because I chose my words very carefully and didn't mean to offend. But this is a debate thread, where a person's opinions are meant to be challenged and questioned, so yes, I am going to respond to statement I disagree with. Just like you did just now!

It's interesting to read the excuses people make for not educating themselves. Yes, there are cheap dolls and expensive dolls and if a person wants to throw a good deal of money away on an impulse purchase without taking the time to read up on that purchase that is certainly his or her right. But we all know what they say about a fool and his money. And acting as though the information isn't out there-- when it's readily available to anyone with an internet connection-- seems like a very poor excuse for foolish behavior.

 

Gah sorry you're right, I guess I'm just used to dealing with snarky people so I assumed the worst. No hard feelings I hope

And yes, excuses are excuses when it comes down to it, but for people who don't know any better often times don't think to check on certain things, and unfortunately, there really isn't as much of a publication of this topic as there needs to be. I know that after I joined DoA I STILL wasn't aware of the bootleg companies until a few months later and I know it wasn't poor research on my part because I have buyer's paranoia with everything so I research until my eyes bleed. I wouldn't call it foolish behavior, unless of course they bought the doll on sheer impulse or bought it fully knowing that the doll was a fake.

I don't think the blame can be directed at anyone except for the company unless the buyer was careless and consciously made the decision to support the bootleggers.