Accidentally Buying a Copy: What Should They Do?

There are always going to be bootlegs of something when demand outstrips supply by the original company or by a company no longer in existence. In addition, when prices are simply too high for a particular region they will manufacture something cheaper. This has nothing to do with dolls. It has to do with economics and human behavior, especially with luxury items people don't perceive as important enough to spend a lot of money on.

There will always be different perceptions on how to buy dolls in the community. Buy on credit or don't. Do research on buying or don't. My question is why is it anyone's business? It is such a cold and capitalistic view to put money ahead of people's love for dolls. And, it's also so human to demand everyone conform to the same kind of thinking that "bootlegs are bad for business" when in fact that is not necessarily always true. But, it's easier to think in black and white.

Do I like bootlegs? No. Do I want bootlegs? No. I still buy music on CD. I still buy the original books I can smell while I read them. I still own DVDs. And, those DVDs were bought after watching television seasons online because I liked them. Without seeing the TV shows on the internet I never would have bought the DVDs. And, it's impossible for me to watch the shows in North America because I don't live there. I see no reason why I should have to wait two years to watch it in a foreign language when my first language is English.

TV shows are uploaded as a result of demand. Demand for convenience. Demand for access. Demand for something. But, it doesn't cost the company any money since they already earned their money from advertisers. And, when the season ends I buy the official DVD release. The same could be true for dolls.

The company that produced Doll X has already sold the dolls. The profit was made. In all likelihood it's a demanded doll where the demand outstripped the supply. The company, in economic terms, is finished with that particular doll or version of the doll. But, why didn't the company release more in the first place if there were people wanting to buy them with money in hand? This doesn't apply to some open limitations, however, for those companies that still rely heavily on strict limitations there is a lesson in there. If they want the business they need to step up and provide for the demand. Frankly, I'm tired of the companies who ignore demand in particular regions. Bootlegs can provide a very harsh wake-up call.

To be honest, I think Soom really listened and it has paid off in dividends. The open limitations, various doll options, layaway options, etc. Their dolls are still being copied, but the same people who buy copies/bootlegs do not buy from Soom directly. It's a completely different kind of buyer - one buyer that has passionately dived into the hobby and another that is simply buying a doll because it seems nice. And, arguably, the reason they now release in China is that the bootlegs were being made so they were compelled to start making dolls for the Chinese market.

Although one could perceive bootlegs as "lost income", the bootlegs could also be perceived as "free advertising", and in a market like China where Soom didn't even release dolls, there are likely a few bootlegs floating around of previous editions. We all know how addictive this hobby can be, and as people become more and more involved in this hobby the more likely they will buy a real doll if they started intentionally or unintentionally with bootlegs. Bootlegs could be the way to attract people in lower income brackets and motivate companies to release dolls in new areas of the world. In addition, those who make bootlegs may someday create a new line of BJDs and start their own company using the knowledge they have gained.

So, although I think bootlegs are ethically wrong and bought by the uninformed or misinformed buyers of dolls (no true collector would touch them), they exist for a reason. And, I don't think they are harming companies. In fact, if anything, they are showing companies that demand in all countries needs to be met, layaway plans are needed and perhaps cheaper alternatives are needed in the form of naked dolls with options.

I doubt very much Soom's business would have evolved into what it is today without the presence of bootlegs. But, they are the company that listened, I think. Too many don't and by not listening those companies share the responsibility of bootleggers existing. The more accessible a doll, the less likely a bootleg will exist. Now that Soom has opened its sales to the Chinese market, it will be interesting to see if the MD bootlegs will decline as well.

As with all luxury items, there will be bootlegs. But, compared to the handbag market where elitist values still reign and bags still cost thousands and thousands, it appears some BJD companies may indeed be listening and making changes to protect their profits and their art.

Edited to Add: Yes, people should keep the copies they accidentally buy and enjoy them. Mistakes happen. And it is from mistakes that we learn.

 

Way to blame the victims - the companies whose art and products are being stolen - for the crimes committed against them. They're clearly asking for it.

If someone loves these dolls and respects and admires the artists who make them, they shouldn't remotely want to buy a bootleg because it is disrespectful to the artist and theft. It's disrespectful to the community of collectors who do buy legitimate products and want to support artists. It's disrespectful to anyone who tries to sell their dolls secondhand because an influx of bootlegs ruins the marketplace for everyone. Bootleggers make money by stealing an artist's hard work. They're not fighting for the poor masses. They're ripping people off.

 

Quoted for posterity.

I have to say my favorite part of this comment is the last few sentences. "Mistakes happen." But apparently the person buying the bootleg doll accidentally (? Is it truly an accident when ignorance is involved?) is supposed to enjoy the doll. So how does this person learn from the mistake? They don't-- there's no consequence attached. So the only way I can interpret this statement is that the doll company is supposed to learn from the ignorant buyer's mistake. Because the bootleg buyer is actually doing them a favor.

That's rich.

Ha Joon Chang wrote a really interesting book called "Bad Samaritans" that talks quite a bit about copyright and the fact that developing nations often ignore it, and that developed nations ignored it when they, in turn, were starting out. His thesis is a bit similar to what you wrote above-- for instance China pretty much ignores copyright on computer software right now, as it is very much in their interest to do so. And once they are in a position to innovate and create products that are novel and in demand, they will begin to enforce copyright. But Chang is talking about the products that drive industry in a country, not luxury goods. These are things that people need to be competitive, not things they simply desire. People in the east and west buy bootleg luxury goods simply because they want something rare that they can't afford. There's no glory or virtue in doing so. It's selfishness, plain and simple, as one doesn't actually need Prada or Gucci or Rolex, or for that matter Volks or Soom.

 

We don't buy illegal copy subjectively. But if it was realised after you have it then just keep it and love it like before. The copy is fake but your love is always real! Just be more careful in next time when you buy dolls in unofficial stores or second-hand sellers.

 

I consider it a thousand times more cold-hearted and quite despicably selfish to think "I want this thing, so the person who sweated, slaved, innovated, and put in their honest effort to create this thing is less important than my want for this thing if I can get it through means that do not in any way benefit them, but make it easier on me."

Did you see the quote I offered up from another artist in my industry? As for 'free advertising', look at the numbers in that post. Yeah, that 'free advertising' sure did him a fat lot of good. Sorry, but I've heard that argument a thousand times and it is, quite frankly, horsepuckey. All the 'advertising' does is show the bootleg or illegitimate means of getting something -- and so that is what increases, not the original item's sales. The more people see these things happen, the more accepted these actions become by the public, period.

One of my business partners is the copyright agent for the brokerage where I sell my work. She could give you the real specifics on this issue that blow the "harmlessness" claims out of the water. Truth is, the current majority of file sharers now do so on sites where they are getting kickbacks from their uploads, or sites that charge memberships. So guess what -- not only is the original creator not profiting from their work, but the thieves are sometimes making more than the original creators from the banner ad systems, kickback programs, and profit-sharing from these sites. Yes. Think about that long and hard when you download. These people aren't 'kind sharing souls' -- they're brazenly doing this for their own buck, and they're making it off of you, too, as well as people like me.

Sad to say, you're really in the minority when it comes to buying what you try for free. Many sites have current shows and content streaming online through their network sites for 'try before you buy' folks these days, and there are services that offer even more out there that are legit. I actually do get your point about Soom adapting for additional visibility in markets that might otherwise be piracy-heavy; these sites are doing the same thing, and to be frank, it would be better to suffer through an ad or two from them (which you tend to do) and pay a small fee monthly (most don't even require that, if it's a network site) and keep a genuinely clear conscience.

 

Just wanted to go back to this point, 'cause this is a common, but false sentiment. I work for a game company making Nintendo DS games. Now the DS is a console that's very easy to crack and a huge part of the games played on that console are downloaded, not bought. It HAS affected our work.

We'd love to make games that are innovative, have features that haven't been done before. We'd love to make something that really stands out instead of the same-old-same-old game-titles the market is flooded with, but we can't. If we do something innovative, there's a great risk of loosing money. It's almost impossible to create a new IP, because it's a 95% guarantee that we won't make profit and marketing games for a larger crowd or an older public comes with a higher risk that the games will be downloaded or ripped-off, instead of bought.

Several companies around us did go bankrupt, because of the change in the market and we too were almost dragged down with them.

So, if you (general) want new, fresh, well-developed games that have new features, I suggest you (general) stop downloading and start buying them. We can't make them out of thin air and we won't risk loosing a great deal of money just because the gamers want to play something 'cool', but aren't willing to pay for it.

Now back to the topic at hand:
I firmly believe that we, as buyers, have the power to make or break an industry/market. If we allow bootlegs in the BJD-world, I am sure that we will kill innovation. To innovate, companies will need time, money and at least SOME assurance that there is a market for the dolls they want to sell. If their work is being ripped off right under their noses, why would they spend valuable time and money on something that won't make profit? It would be wiser to make dolls that don't take so much time to produce.

Hmm... *steps off her soapbox*.

 

I do not support bootlegs, but this is not an entirely black and white issue, folks. When it comes to dolls, the people who choose to buy the original dolls are NOT the same people who choose to buy bootlegs. Doll companies need to target the people who buy bootlegs with their products because those who choose not to support the bootleg industry can't change what the bootleg purchasers are doing no matter how much indignation they may have. I also feel that if someone accidentally buys a bootleg (which is quite possible seeing Ebay as of late), it is forgiveable, but it is certainly not behavior that should be encouraged. I'm thankful for the harsher stance against bootlegging, but I'm not going to simply say "bad!" and let that sum up my argument. My question is why would bootlegs exist in the first place?

I don't support bootlegs. I don't support copies. However, companies need to be the ones to take responsibility for preventing the need for them to exist in the first place. This is economics. And, part of capitalism is supply and demand. I don't make the rules nor do I agree it's fair. I'm only trying to explain why bootlegs may not be an entirely black and white issue. If 100 dolls are created by 5000 are in demand, expect a bootleg to be created. How can bootlegs be stopped? Curb the demand for them in the first place.

I sympathize with those industries being pushed out of business due to piracy, but arguably it has more to do with technology than with the product itself. Creating a concrete object like a doll is far different than creating a video game. The reason is that once one plays a video game to the end, it's basically become a "throw away item" when one becomes bored with it. And those industries are always creating something "new" and making the previous item "obsolete". The cycle creates the impression that if these items are all meant to be thrown away, why pay for them? If a consumer's enjoyment is temporary why buy them at all? It could be argued, the companies' ways of doing business are devaluing their own items themselves in the eyes of their consumers. That said, I don't think this provides a justification for bootlegging, only a reason. I've never understood why a company wouldn't offer "game upgrades" rather than continuously create new games, but I don't play video games so I'm certainly no expert.

BJDs, on the other hand, created by companies are not and could never be seen as "throw away" items. There is an art element to them, but they are also concrete objects that can be changed by the owner. They are not something one plays to an ending and then needs to buy a new one to continue to enjoy. Instead, someone can buy a new wig or a new outfit or a new pair of shoes. Or paint it again.

I don't have the answers to the problem. I agree a harsh stance needs to be taken against bootleggers who knowingly purchase those dolls. But, we as collectors cannot take it solely upon ourselves to stop it. Companies need to play a role as well.

 

This is still a gross failure of logic.

Every scrap of food you eat becomes obsolete the moment you flush the toilet, but you are not entitled to have it for free, or to steal it.

You don't get to justify having your hair cut for free simply because it will grow back later.

Work costs money, period. That is the problem. Whether it results in a tangible good or not, work costs money. The time and effort of people who work in these industries is still time and effort, and for it, they deserve their proper compensation. It absolutely is that black and white.

Creating that new item to replace the old costs money. Are you really going to say that effort and time and labor should be handed to you like throwing good after bad? Because that IS the logic you are proposing here.

 

You're not sounding like a troll, let me first tell you that. But I still also don't agree with you. A company might no longer exist, but the creators are still 'out there'. They have the option to start over, building a new company, and using their past work and ideas they had before to make money (at least until they have build a new portfolio).
They could also decide to sell the rights of their previously created molds to another company (NDoll producing Happydoll dolls for instance, if I'm correct about this). The IP or idea remains their property their whole life long (unless they sell the rights).

This is why copyright exists. It's to protect the artist's livelyhood. Because if everybody starts to use some artist's idea, the moment he/she is on hiatus, that same artist has to start all over again when he/she returns. Considering that it usually takes months to years to build up a portfolio, chances of the artist's shop surviving are becoming slim.

Do you really think it's fair to take someone's livelihood away, just because you think you're entitled to get that special, sparkly limited for the original price or less?

@elphsnt: If games are throw-away items, then I suggest to stop producing movies, tv-shows, books, theatre-, dance- and circus shows. In fact, let's just close down restaurants as well, 'cause you're only throwing away money on a one-time meal. All entertainment is obsolete.
I'd like to write an entire page on your absurd statement, but Surreality said it much better than I did.

The only thing I want to add to this is that I believe people are no longer willing to cash out hundreds for a service, because we loose sight of how much work goes into it. Why spend hundreds on a doll when we get our mass-produced barby for fifteen? Mass-production did us a lot of good, but it's also given us a very skewed idea on the value of things. (food included)
And with internet making everything available for free, it becomes hard not to believe that it's our right to get something without having to pay for it.

 

For video games, I realized that I was throwing away a lot of money on games I never played or finished. What did I do? I stopped buying games. I'd rather not play a game at all than play a bootleg of it. You could always borrow a friend's (official) copy, or even rent it from somewhere, if you don't want to buy it.

A lot of TV shows and even some animes have official sites now where you can watch the new episodes, even if they're not in your country yet.

I think people are thinking of the music industry and assuming it applies to other forms of media as well. Even before the internet and filesharing was invented, we always had ways to hear music without buying from the artists - radios. And now some bands even let you download their songs for free, or for a dollar or two. But this is because they have another source of income that can be supported by doing this, namely concerts. There aren't any official live video gaming or tv showing events that would compare to this.


But besides all that, there is another thing I'd like to point out here: Ball Jointed Dolls are not a form of "mass media". They are different from any of these. They are hand made, they are hand painted, they are made to order. Imagine if there were only a few copies of a song, or game, or tv show avaliable, and that you could choose from several different genres, or different characters, or different stories or lengths that you want yours to be made with. That you could modify it to your liking when you got it, that you could make it into your own character with your own story. Then it could be compared to a BJD.


I'm not upset with people who accidentally buy copies: yes they should have done the research, but we all make mistakes. It's the ones who intentionaly buy copies that are at fault here, as well as the people who make them. If someone accidentally buys a copy of a doll, they should decide what they liked about it, find out what company the doll was copied from, and try to buy a real doll from that company next time. Even if they can't afford the real version of that particular doll, there could be smaller and less expensive dolls in similar styles that they might fall in love with, or they can at least buy some accessories from them. And they should report who sold them the doll so that other people won't fall for the same thing.

 

If bootleg dolls do real damage to the hobby (which they do), then how is it not a black and white issue? When it comes to dolls, I'm pretty relaxed about what other people do -- but this isn't something to be relaxed about. No good comes of bootlegs period. The attitude a community like this one takes to bootleg dolls does have an impact -- if it were considered one of those things that was just up to the individual and bootlegging wasn't so frowned upon, I do believe that there would be more people buying bootlegs that wouldn't otherwise because there is a segment of the population that always wants something for less. Bootleggers are always going to be around, but the hobby can continue to discourage buying their goods and help keep it somewhat under control.

Also, unless they dropped their prices waaay down, and made all of their dolls readily available standards there would be no way to target the audience that loves to buy bootlegs. Neither of those things are feasible options as their is only so low you can drop prices without a drop in quality, and there are people who like LEs (and LEs allow companies to do things that they really couldn't do with a standard release.

I wouldn't be angry with a person if it was an accident either, but you can ask why bootlegs exist till you're blue in the face, and it won't make them any more ok.

I already partly covered this, but you do realize that companies do take action when they can, but they can't always go after these folks since they are operating in a different country. So never release LEs. That's your answer to this? It's also not the companies' faults. If we were talking about life sustaining medication, or food etc you could absolutely make this case, but not for luxury items that we don't need to survive. This is bad behavior on the part of the people who knowingly buy them -- this is why they continue to exist, because people want what they want fast, cheap, and easy even if it does harm to others (or perhaps they rationalize the harm part away).

Companies can play a role by litigating when it's possible to do so, and warning their customers of fakes on the market. They should not be expected to cave and change all their business practices because people are quite frankly, selfish. Really being able to compete with bootleggers in terms of both price and availability could put the legit companies right out of business -- even a decent quality Chinese bootleg is going to cost significantly less than a Soom or Volks standard (never mind the LEs), because it costs less to make things in China even if the bootleggers aren't cutting corners in the manufacturing process. How are Korean and Japanese companies supposed to compete with that? And we can make an impact, but not if we just shrug bootlegging off as just one of those things that happens or worse, start blaming the legit companies themselves.

 

Yeah, I realize that now, thanks. Hurrr that's what I get for living under a rock I suppose hehe. But just for clarity I didn't say it as a definite "It's never ruined business" Just that I've never heard of something like that happening (which now also makes me upset and brings me back to my point on how this needs publicity)

For people who are comparing video game production and dolly production and thinking that the processes and outcome are different, there actually isn't as much of a difference there as you think there is. I work in animation and do some game design as well (and recently workers in these fields have been branching into the toy industry), and it is actually an INCREDIBLY similar process, you'd be surprised. A lot of the modeling and things can be done on a computer (not saying this is the same for dolls, but it is a similar work space) and most of the toys you see these days started with the same type of program, and the original cast was printed out on a 3d printer and then put into a mold. This is the longest and one of the hardest stages of the process, and this is the part that is ripped off frequently. As for the programming of the games, I guess you can't really program a doll, but let me tell you. Working with resin is something I have done and flipped a table at. Resin casting is hard since there are so many things that could go wrong and cause you to have to throw the doll out all together and start new, not to mention that the mold only lasts through a few castings. It costs more money and effort than some people realize and agree to believe. In the end, whether it be electronic or not, bootlegging is still ripping off the same amount of work.

 

I'm a really big follower of "you can't plead ignorance," because you can't. It doesn't work that way with law. Bootlegs are illegal. I really would like to say,

"Of COURSE I'd keep the doll and love her!"

...but in reality, if it did happen to me, and I found out my first doll, Ravin, was actually a bootleg...wow, i don't really know what I would do. To be honest, I didn't know anything about BJD's when I bought him. I just knew they were pretty, and that one day I would probably want one. He was on sale at a con, and he was pretty inexpensive. Of course, the first thing I think to ask when I see something that's normally so expensive be so inexpenive, is "Well why is it so cheap?" The person selling him said that they just plain didn't want him anymore, but they wanted to get SOME cash for him. When I first came onto this site, I was really panicked to hear that bootlegs were actually a problem. It made me so nervous that my little Ravin was a bootleg. So I frantically looked at so many doll sites trying to find out where he may have came from. I stumbled upon Angel of Dream and saw the Min mold and thought to myself, "Yea, that's definitely him." And I dug through old boxes, as Ravin did come with a box, and was so relieved to see that he was sold to me with his original packaging.

But I'm really not too sure how I would have felt if it didn't work out that way. Morally I think I would just feel so...guilty. But I do love Ravin a lot, so I think it's one of those hypothetical situations that I really wouldn't know until it actually happened to me. I would, however, feel a great deal of sympathy for the person this would have happened to.

Ignorance can be a mistake. But you're right, there are no consequences to this...but I think the guilt in itself would be a pretty big consequence =\

Although to be honest, if this person did their research as the OP had said, I would think this person wouldn't be ignorant enough to buy something off of E-Bay like that. >.>;

 

I don't disagree with the ethical side of things. But, for better or worse, we live in a society rules by money. And, sometimes, ethics is compromised for profit. And, there is a limit to what actual buyers can do. This is also an international hobby and the degree of wealth in various regions will vary. And, not all people will have the same value for dolls as others.

Everyone makes compromises due to economics at some point in their lives. They shop at Walmart or at other discount shops where people earn minimum wage supporting a system that exploits people. They buy clothes or shoes manufactured by people making dollars a month because they are slave labor to keep costs down so people in developed nations can buy cheap products. People shop for groceries and take short-cuts with the products they buy even though the companies that create the cheaper products may not be ethical.

My point is that if someone accidentally buys a bootleg BJD that is far more forgiveable than regularly shopping at Walmart where hundreds, if not thousands, of employees are exploited daily. If someone buys a bootleg BJD and wakes a company up to demand in a new region where the company never sold before, it can have positive results. And, if someone makes a bootleg BJD and then decides that they really love dolls and enter the hobby to buy more legitimate dolls they are indeed doing their part to support legitimate business. This is not a "good" versus "bad" situation. It's far more complex and it's ignorance to assume that it needs to be analyzed in simple terms based solely on one's values and experiences. It needs to be analyzed in terms of economics, regional disparities and supply versus demand.

Bootleg BJDs are comparable to the bag industry. The bag industry doesn't suffer because people stopped buying brand bags. The people who can afford to buy brand bags continue to do so, while those who can't don't. If brand bag companies actually cared about targeting those who bought fakes they would create a line that was more accessible for people of various income levels. The BJD companies have indeed recognized this and now there are dolls in all price ranges, but this hasn't always been the case. And, if we want this hobby to exist, it does indeed need to appeal to different markets.

I sympathize with those facing unemployment in the future due to being in a difficult industry related to mass media. However, suck it up. Mass media is changing, and although I sympathize with all those in the industry, unless businesses can create a new approach or revolutionize their own industries it's not going to stop. People can blame piracy and this is certainly a factor, however, the larger factor is arguably that there is no value for many consumers for these types of products due to technological advancements. There are just as many gamers creating free products as "pay for" products. There are just as many artists creating "free art" as there are artists creating "pay for" products. There are just as many writers creating "free books" as there are writers getting published. And those "free products" are not always bootlegs. Sometimes, their people trying to break into the industry, but little do they realize that they're contributing to the decrease in demand for paid products.

The world isn't black and white, right and wrong. It's a complex place and when it comes to any "luxury item" that is not needed when it comes to food, shelter or healthcare it will face difficulties. Bootlegs are a part of those difficulties with any item in any form and no matter how much people scream at them to not exist, the reason for them existing in the first place is supply, demand and economic limitations in a region. Greed certainly plays a part as well, but that's a part of the capitalisitc structure with a focus on consumerism. Without consumerism, people would buy one BJD and stop, so one can't even say "consumerism" is bad for the hobby.

I wish the world were a simple place and I could shake my finger at those who buy bootlegs and say "bad!". But, I can't. I can choose where I can spend my money, but I have no right to demand that others do the same thing. It's hypocrisy. I'm not perfect and neither is anyone else. Innocent mistakes are forgiveable, I can try to help others by educating them about buying only from companies and I can share my opinions and views, but I will never say I'm right or that there is only one way to do things. I'd rather focus on understanding. And, in economic terms I can understand the existence of bootlegs even if I don't agree with their creation or those who purchase them.

 

I'm wondering just how people involved in media (you said "mass media" which refers to communications but I think you meant to say just plain old "media," as in art, music, video games etc.) are supposed to "suck it up." An artist who depends on sales for a living cannot do art if there are no sales. The friend I mentioned earlier-- whose work was good enough to win the most prestigious award the national endowment for the arts gives-- will simply stop creating art for a living if he can't get paid, and get some other non-artistic job. Who suffers then?

Copyright, patents, etc., exist for a reason, to give people an incentive to create. Without an incentive, only the independently wealthy, or people lucky enough to have a wealthy person as a patron can spend their days creating. Welcome back to the middle ages.

Just as an FYI, there are plenty of people who are doing their best to make personal economic decisions that don't exploit others. Just because you shop at Walmart doesn't mean everyone does. I sure don't. And while it's difficult to try to live that kind of life, there is value in trying.

The faux tolerance you are describing, where every way of life is as good as others and cannot be criticized lest you be labeled a hypocrite is simply ridiculous. If all decisions were equally valid we wouldn't need laws. And while specific laws may vary widely in different locales, expecting someone to conform to international laws and treaties is quite reasonable, as multiple nations have bought into them. It's the price, in fact, for doing business internationally. Berne Convention, anyone? Since 1886! Chinese copyright law (necessary once they began to internationalize)? Since 1990!

 

And you know what? Ethical people realize that sometimes the compromise is this: "I can't afford that luxury item, so I don't get to have it." This is not difficult to understand for most people who are not hopelessly self-centered.

I refuse to even set foot in one, and, obviously, don't. My family refuses to also.

With focus on 'accidentally' here, I actually agree. But only if it genuinely is accidental.

The problem is, it wakes them up to buying from the bootleg company -- not the authentic one. When asked, 'hey, where did you get that?' they're likely not going to point to the original company, they're going to point to the knockoff website.

How charmingly flippant of you. I realize that you are trying to excuse your own admitted, unethical behavior here, but that initial statement flat out says, "I pirate things, and because I sometimes do the honest thing and buy later, the rest of you who make a living this way are just going to have to live with the vast majority that don't do so, because I want what I want now and don't like waiting, my impatience and selfishness is far more important than your livelihood". Yep, that pretty much sums it up from where I'm sitting, and you don't have to like how ugly that is, but as it is a deconstruction of your own arguments, you're really the one who will have to suck it up and live with that.

Unfortunately, you are the one who has proven ignorant in this regard, repeatedly, with many of the same tired, disproven pirate-excusing arguments that have been presented and debated in more scholarly forums than this, by people far more educated on the subject than any speaking on it actively here. (And that's no slight to any of us; this is something being seriously investigated in a broad fashion.)

And just because your mother cooks dinner for you on Sunday doesn't mean the next Sunday you can go to a restaurant and skip on the check. For cryin' out loud. "Joe does it for free, so Suzy has to do it for free, too!" is complete and utter bunk as an argument. It makes absolutely no sense. Joe may be, to some extent, devaluing Suzy's work to some extent, or creating additional competition, but he is not creating a situation in which Suzy is no long permitted to charge money for her work. Do you even read these arguments before you post them?

 

I haven't read this entire thread, but THIS , so much. No one is entitled to own any particular luxury item or piece of art.

As for the OP, she will have to enjoy her doll without sharing on DoA, this board does not endorse bootlegs, regardless of the owner's intentions.

Hopefully she would not find out about her mistake by being flamed and blamed in the gallery... there are kind and polite ways of informing someone that their doll is a bootleg without assuming they knowingly purchased one.

 

elphsnt: In just two posts you've managed to insult me several times and I'm not easily offended. You have a gift. I'm not going to start to take it personal, but I would like it if you were a little more careful with how you phrase things.

Yes, and there are people who build houses, build cars and manage a foundation in their spare time, so I suggest we get rid of the car industry and demand that construction workers and managers work for free! 'Cause that is totally fair...

On the topic of piracy: Stealing, should never be allowed. This matter is very much black and white and just because you keep repeating that it isn't, doesn't make it so.

 

So, if I get raped, it's my own fault? I should have raised a fund that pays people for trips to the Red Light District in Amsterdam to make sex more easily available? I find your logic more or less the same.

I'd like to add that although the severity of the crimes (rape VS producing bootlegs/recasts) is different, it's ridiculous to put the blame on and responsibility at the victim. If an artist/company creates something desirable, it's not okay to be bootlegged if they don't manage to create the "proper" amount of availability.

 

You have a very defeatist sort of attitude. 'Well, since society is this way, I don't/can't/shouldn't try to do anything about it' Just because some people compromise on ethics for profit, doesn't mean that people shouldn't attempt to do the ethical thing. What you state here is nothing more than a poor excuse for bad behavior, and that kind of attitude is one of the reasons there's so much crap that happens in the world.

I avoid Wal-Mart. I'm not the only one to do so, as it has a long and obvious history of unethical behavior. It's true that it's nigh impossible to avoid all goods that were produced in an unethical way, but that doesn't mean you don't try. If you know for a fact something is off with a particular brand or store, it's easy enough not to shop there. Just because you can't get everything right 100% of the time doesn't mean you completely give up.

The accidental bootleg purchase thing again is an accident, and therefore not something to flame someone about, but your soft attitude towards bootlegging and blaming of legit companies really makes no sense.

Except that if bootleg dolls aren't frowned on, and they are happy with their first bootleg doll, there is a good chance they will go back for more and tell their friends. See, not so complex, and definitely a problem. I don't think the anti-bootleg folks are being ignorant about this -- I think you're grasping at straws to support an idea that is pretty unsupportable. There's lots of shades of gray in the world, but that doesn't mean that there is never clear cut wrong and right. You are also, once again, treating a luxury item as if it something that people actually need in the way they need food, healthcare, shelter etc. When what you want is not an immediate need you can go with out either permanently, or until you can save the money to buy whatever it is legitimately. That is why your whole supply vs demand/regional disparity argument flat out fails.

ABJDs can't be targeted towards all income levels, because they are expensive to make unless you want a huge drop in quality. There are dolls at various price ranges, but those are in large part predicated by country of origin. It's expensive to manufacture in Japan, therefore Japanese doll manufacturers can't drop their prices that low. The answer then for the monetarily challenged, is to either save up longer, or by a doll from a less expensive legit company, not a bootleg of the more expensive doll. See, not that complicated.

Have you ever faced unemployment before? Really? I can tell you from personal experience that it's awful to be called into your supervisor's office and be told that you no longer have a job. That it wasn't anything you did, but the company is tight for money, so sorry. What you just said is so unbelievably insulting that I can't even believe you or anyone else would type something like that. Wow. You have so much sympathy towards bootlegs, and yet have none for people who try their best and come by their money honestly. You should be ashamed of yourself.

No, but some things aren't nearly as complicated as you make them. I'm starting to think you just enjoy standing on a soapbox, because I can't see any reasonable person believing these arguments are at all sound. The buying and selling of luxury items are actually less complicated, since they aren't needed and people actually can go without or wait longer to buy. You're just being to wishy washy to take an ethical position, luckily others aren't.

You actually do have the right to say something is unethical and people shouldn't do it. In the doll hobby there's a lot of stuff that really comes down to individual choice, and when it comes to those things I don't think people should be judged harshly or pressured. However, that doesn't mean that there are things that aren't clearly wrong -- bootlegs are wrong, scamming fellow hobbyists is wrong etc. and you can tell, because they actually cause concrete harm to others which is pretty damn obvious. The same goes for other areas of life -- some actions really are wrong, and when people don't speak out, don't make that judgment call, they are allowing those wrong things to continue happening. Your arguments are a perfect example of what's wrong with the world. You need to stand up and grow a backbone.