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Adult themes taboo for tinies?

May 18, 2010

    1. EDIT: After reading through the replies so far (3 pages) I must say I'm very surprised by the responses.

      I started this thread because I am working on a graphic novel. It allowed me to feel good about buying a BJD, because it would be more than "just" a doll. I can't draw, and plan to turn the photoshoots into drawings (hooray for photoshop!) and so allow myself to express my stories through the medium of my choosing. My budget, space, and size (I am personally quite small) won't allow me to use MSDs or SDs. As Aralyne has stated "I did not intentionally set out to buy tinies, nor did I plan to have tinies representing adult characters", it just happened to turn out that way. My story is mostly about teenagers, and their coming of age; How they deal with their (faulty) upbringing, and how they gather self-knowledge, and grow.

      These themes, to me, are very adult. I am saddened to see that the predominant association with adult themes, is sex. I am also very saddened that, despite sex being an adult theme, that the only way many posters here imagine it being used is through the depiction of explicit sexual acts. Is that all sex is? What about internal gender conflict? What about children who have been abused, how they deal emotionally with their issues? These are adult themes, too, and also sexual themes. Do people who have experienced these problems personally, not deserve to have their stories told through this medium, so that they may feel supported, and less alone? Are they condemned to only play/write the "safe" child stories of "The trials and tribulations of baking Sunday cupcakes"? Not all of us have had that kind of happy childhood.

      I'm not saying that stories like that need to be allowed to be posted in the galleries. I doubt anyone wanting to write/play these types of stories wishes to share that with this community, or any community for that matter. However, I am saddened by the small state of mind that makes unfounded assumptions and conclusions, instead of taking a serious interest in this subject. And I am completely outraged by certain comments questioning moral character. I leave it up to the moderators to decide whether this thread needs to be closed, or even deleted. However, I have nothing more to add.

      Lastly I want to thank the posters who were able to see the true intentions of my original question, be they supportive or disapproving.
      :aheartbea

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Are adult themes (sex, drugs, rock 'n roll) for (role)play and character interaction, in your eyes, taboo for tinies?
      They are the little kids of the BJD world (limhwa to you, soul little, tinybear's bonbon and coco, and probably more are obvious exceptions), should they be treated as such? Or does this "stigma" bother you? Are they tinies in size, or does it go beyond that? What do you think?

      I personally don't avoid adult themes for my tinies. I'm not attracted to the larger dolls, as they are more resin than I can handle! So to me, tiny is just the size of the doll, and despite their childlike build (which is often modifiable) does not reflect the age of my OC.
      How about you?
       
    2. I've been getting 'you can't do that!' reactions in relation to my tinies quite a lot, mostly because I pair them up and they do have particular 'adult' themes about them. However, the characters themselves are adults (in explanation they are all holograms, so they've just come out small and are not really small) and I try to pick sculpts that are less child-like when creating them. I am personally really small and I have problems handling more than one 60cm+ doll but no problem at all carrying multiple minis and tinies.
       
    3. I think the problem is that most tinies look like children, no matter what age you give them. It's about the image, not the character.
      Your tiny might be 68, but still look like a baby. The image will, to some (including me), still be about children.
      I understand this can be really annoying when you want to share your adult tinies...
       
    4. I think there is a big difference between using adult 'mature' bodied tinies in more adult-themed storylines and immature bodied tinies. Soul Little and Soom Mini Gem look like adults, they have mature features and mature bodies, so I wouldn't think anything of an adult themed storyline featuring those particular dolls...but I would definitely be turned off an adult photoshoot featuring a YoSD or Puki, for example, as those dolls have the features of young children.

      I would definitely be turned off a photostory that featured an MSD-sized doll (or larger) in a relationship with a Soul Little/Mini Gem/Tinybear Coco. Even though the dolls have mature features and proportions, the size difference would not look appropriate. I'm short (4'11"), but even when I stand next to someone 6' tall, I look like an adult and in scale with other human beings. Mature bodied tinies are still out of scale with other dolls.
       
    5. This is an interesting subject. In the past I've seen a few tinies released
      that were wearing outfits that just seemed wrong for, like others pointed
      out, dolls that look like cute little children. I couldn't help but feel that they
      were either created by or for people of that mentality. Which I suppose is
      why it bothered me even more. I don't think I would ever be tempted to
      dress any of my tinies (yo-sd size) in very adult clothes items like lingerie etc.
      BUT is that really any worse than very anime dolls like DD that have
      super young faces but a very mature perhaps even overly-mature body?
      IMO not really, yes it's different, but it still seems directed towards a particular
      mind frame that would also want tiny/young dolls to act out mature themes.

      If, in your doll world or story, your tinies are adults then I don't think there's
      anything wrong with adult themes...AS LONG AS your tinies are interacting
      with other tinies. If you start having stories involving larger dolls, even msd
      size, then I think it becomes questionable and IMO it doesn't belong on the
      forum. That said, I've seen several photo stories that really shocked me.
      (no, not boy boy stories etc.) I recall last year many a post being deleted
      because of the conversation of wether an upcoming doll would be more
      anatomically correct, the reasoning was that young children also view the
      threads. It made sense. Although at the age given (13) it didn't seem
      logical that they would be offended OR be unaware of the subject thus
      putting any parent in a difficult situation. Back OT! I don't think it's at
      all appropriate to see the words "hooker" or any reference to drugs
      in a photo story or title, in fact I feel that's far worse than any discussion of
      anatomy or tinies in adult situations. Mind you as long as they are not
      interacting with larger more adult looking dolls.

      Of course you can do whatever you want creative wise with your dolls!!
      There was likely a time when things that are now viewed by many as
      OK or "normal" on the forum was once met with raised eyebrows.
      I just feel some things have a right and wrong place on the forum,
      and until there's an "adults only" section (which seems unlikely) I feel
      it's best done on places like flickr. :sweat
      Sorry if I took the original post out of context. I've just had these things
      on my mind for a while now.;)
       
    6. If they look like children (and not all tiny sculpts look like children), then yes, I think it IS taboo. It would squick me right out seeing child-like (latis, pukifees, yosds, etc) tinies in adult situations.
       
    7. Personally I find adult themes kind of dodgy with any immature/child bodied doll, whether it's a Lusion doll, MSD, YoSD, Lati yellow, Puki, whatever. Doubly so if there's a size difference between dolls because even though they're "just dolls" my mind tends to look at, say, a large doll with a mini and think "adult and child" (even a mature mini).

      Of course it depends on how the subject is treated as well- what the specific subject is, what sculpt the doll is and how childlike it appears. But in the majority of cases, I don't like seeing adult themed photos featuring a doll that looks more like a child than an adult.
       
    8. Yeah, I doubt I would ever put any of my tinies in lingerie or something similarly adult. :lol:

      I definitely agree with this. To me the mindset of the person doing adult themes with their tinies is key. If, like einon and me, the tinies are, in fact, adults, I can imagine it would still rub some people the wrong way, but I don't think that there's morally anything wrong with it. It would probably be best not to post these kinds of things on the board.
      If, however, the tinies are still viewed as kids during these adult themes, I find that it is grossly inapropriate.

      I agree. I would also find that highly inapropriate.
       
    9. I sometimes make up silly stories using my Secretdoll tiny dolls as characters of indeterminate age. They have strange little faces that do not look particularly childlike to me, which is probably the main reason that they seem to appeal only to a small group of collectors. I only make up fantasy/fairy type stories though, and avoid sex and drugs. I think there is a fine line with child tiny dolls that one should not cross. To me it's ok to pretend that they are adult fairy-folk if they aren't depicted in sexual or illegal situations. For example, I think it would be acceptable to portray a childlike character-meant-to-be-an-adult drinking a magic potion but not a cocktail or smoking a joint or having a sexual encounter of any kind.

      Edit: Some tiny dolls can look like children or adults, depending on how they are painted and dressed (Elfdoll tiny sisters, Banjis, etc.). Adult themed situations with these dolls would not bother me as long as they are clearly dressed as adults, although I personally dislike sexual stories about dolls in general.
       
    10. I wouldn't put Clover in any greasy stuff lol she looks like a kid , is a kid (faerie)

      though she fights giant insects, dragons and demons...
       
    11. Yeah.... I don't know I guess you could if you wanted to but it just seems so bizarre D8
      like... little 5 year olds f***ing each other... and smoking crack?


      O.o.... no. Just... no.
       
    12. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it's upsetting to some on this sensitive subject, so here's mine: It's actually funny rather than shocking to me, seeing tinies come over all Sid Vicious because I have a dark sense of humour. They're not real kiddies just baby faced toys; I get upset when I read abut bad things happening to kids in the news, not when I see somebody taking photos of her dolls bumping plastic bits or forking the camera while sipping on JD; and has anyone actually ever said "this is Amy, she is 8 years old and she is getting it on with John, a 43 year old plumber" or "This is Amy, an 8 year old who is playing with her tea set and snorting lines of coke"?? Everyone I've seen has worked it into their characterisation for the person to be small and cherubic looking but adult enough to behave like one. As for MSDs paired with SDs etc, what about real life differences in height and looks, what about 15/16 year old schoolgirls having crushes on very adult male rockstars or trying to impress local biker boys in their 20's? (guilty on both counts) it's real life, it's natural and if you want to go further it's actually legal in most Western countries. So why is it so bad to reflect it in the doll world if that's your upbringing/culture?
       
    13. It really squicks me right out when people use child-bodied dolls portraying adult sexuality. For me, it's past taboo and clear into the realm of disgusting. People can do what they like with their dolls, but those generally aren't the kind of people I want to hang out with.
       
    14. I agree that people can do what they like with their own dolls, and also that people are entitled to be squicked out by it too :lol:
       
    15. Personally, I buy tinies to be "kids" - and to have them in adult situations would just be totally not-good. While I can see the point of view of people who have two "consenting" tinies as adults, mismatching size, I feel, would cross the line (as has already been mentioned). This would include any sort of situation where one of the two "consenting" adults got turned into a tiny. I still feel like the taboo would still be in effect. I think there was a Star trek episode about that.
       
    16. I completely agree with this.

      If something is that disgusting in reality, I don't see see why there is such a widespread appeal to present this in this hobby. Of course, not every gallery post has content like this, but it pops up often enough (and with accepting comments!) that make me really wonder about the integrity of a good number of members in this community.
       
    17. Perception is subjective and quite odd at times. I've seen Littlefee faces made up to look rather sluttish, even though they look to me not just toddler-ish but with most of them have lips right at the suckling-baby stage. Yet Fairyland actually put more of an adult faceup on a LTF face and shows it on the larger and quite mature new Chicline bodies.

      But bodies -- chubby, short bodies can well be considered other-than-child, given the parameters of any given fictional universe. Otherwise the classic image of trolls and other dimunitive chunky fantasy folk are all suspect (OMG, they had offspring...!). For that matter, then, any human with full dwarfism should never be allowed to consider procreating or having a family so as not to squik the "normal" folks around,, and those dwarves that are actors should only be allowed to play kiddie parts. Right? NOT.

      Putting tinies next to 60-70cm dolls in photostories and photos does demand strong characterizations or explanation-of-status, and a good photographic hand at the best of times. It's much easier to keep tinies in their own little sequestered worlds and interacting only with their size range. But that doesn't necessarily imply that the only scenarios that are acceptable for tinies are toddler themes and long, involved tales of which toy to choose, etc. However, "Adult Themes" also doesn't necessarily mean one has to jump immediately to considering sexual situations. IMO, there are lots of adult behaviors that are foolish, grim, stupid, pointless, dark, reprehensible and negative that don't involve sex at all. And there are people here who are even disturbed and driven to vocal abusive angst by the photography of a simple nude or nearly-nude puki chunk of plastic, or by a tiny making a rude gesture or "using" rude language, which seems more excessive than anything I've seen portrayed here with little dolls.

      I like how SkadiGoddess put it:
       
    18. I would have to agree with armeleia and leenah there on that one. I've seen parents in real life dressing up their children like they're adults and wonder why their children get sexually harassed to put the term very lightly. If the body of the doll is immature I will label it as immature and thus a child. To put them in such situations is wrong and perverse to me since that it's almost promoting pedophilia. If the body is more mature then I'm not going to protest as much since the bodies are supposed to be mature.
       
    19. Well, for one thing, I think there's a creepy way to do it, and a non-creepy way. XD; The creepy way being that you make it clear that you're sort of acting out your fantasy with the doll, and the non-creepy way being that you're more distant from the scenario you've created for the doll, or you're doing it in a humorous way.
      If you do it the creepy way, you should be ready for people to complain. But I don't see any real reason you shouldn't be able to do it if you really want to. It's just a doll. I think people get waaaay too bothered by this subject, and it drives them to try and squash personal freedoms without a second thought.
       
    20. Agreeing with several others here - for me, it's all about the sculpt, not the sculpt's size. I don't care if it's tiny or large, I care about whether its proportions are childish or mature. For example: sexual photos of a Catsy, tiny waist and big breasts and all, wouldn't bother me in the least, even though they're shorter than one of my fingers is long; sexual photos of a Dollmore Lusion doll would bother me, even though they're positively huge, because their proportion and facial features seem to me to be like those of a toddler or young child.