Age, Income and social responsiability?

I guess I don't interact much with other collectors on the basis of anything other than simply trading information- 90% of this had never occurred to me! I guess it is different if you're going to meets and things (that was an assumption- woops!) but my idea is simple: we were all new once. At some point, everyone who has a "large, expensive collection" was a n00b with one or no doll. On that basis, I think helping others is just the right thing to do- especially since I remember how grateful I always was when someone could answer my "HALP I'VE RUINED MY DOLLY" topics etc. DoA is a wonderful forum partly because of how helpful everyone is and the amazing wealth of hobby info that hangs out here- and the users who've been collecting since '05, or have 30+ dolls are just as much a part of that as the ones who are waiting on their 1st. While I don't feel any real responsibility to the hobby community, I always appreciate and am inspired by those who want to give something back by helping others, or just chatting about their collections because they don't have to, they simply do it - for whatever reason. I think that's what really matters about the hobby community, that there's a place where everyone in this small niche hobby can go to learn or teach- or both!

 

I'm along with the others in the "don't care" camp.

---------

But, for the sake of this debate topic, I shall pretend to care for a moment.

I don't think looking at someone's BJD collection alone is an accurate way of analyzing their age/income/status in any way. There are so many other factors to consider:

Are they newbies or seasoned collectors? Do they have another collection that takes priority over BJDs (ie, cars, coins, stamps, other dolls, art, etc)? Are they really into BJDs, or is a BJD a novelty item? What about their space at home; is there enough display or storage space for more than X amount of dolls? What about their personal aesthetic sense; do they collect only items that have a certain style to them?

 

I don't tend to assume anything about other people based on their doll collections, but I do wonder about how large collections are stored or displayed, and I often envy mad sewing skills and that sort of thing. But I don't spend much time pondering incomes, ages, or philanthropy when I'm browsing dollie photos.

Is it just me, or this thread kind of strange? I'm not so sure it really has much to do with dolls.

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection?
I tend to assume that people with the more anime-esque inspired dolls tend to be younger, especially if they're goth/lolita. I'm happy to be mistaken, though. I guess I would have to say that I do tend to believe that people with dolls that have lots of hand-made accessories, who send their doll out for a professional face-up or do a professional-quality face-up themselves are older. Again, I am happy to be mistaken.

What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
I have no assumption. I could be considered to have a lot of dolls (most of which are limited or hard to get or no longer made), but I don't have that great an income. So when other people have a good amount of dolls, or have good quality dolls, or whatever, I mostly assume that they are willing to save and work to get them, rather than they have these amazing jobs.

For collectors with a 'fair amount' of money put into their collection....
Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
I'm sure I do, but I'm not answerable to those people.

-Is there 'assumptions' made about you/your collection, due to your age/job.
Again, I'm sure there are, but I don't have to answer to those people.

-A misunderstanding of the 'work' you have put into earning funds.
See above. ^^;

What do you say/tell people who seem to not understand or appreciate where your funds come from?
I let them know that bills/necessities always, always, ALWAYS come first. And I let them know that (provided I have a job) I work my butt off to be sure that bills and such are paid. If and when I buy dolls, it's always with the thorough understanding that the money I'm spending won't be needed for anything else.

What sort of social responsibility do you have towards your local BJD community (or community in general)?
Eh, I don't think anyone expects anything from me just yet. Which might change within the next year.

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection?
Yes and no. I generally assume everyone to be about my age until proven otherwise. It's just my default for internet interactions.

What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
Quality: This is just...inane and can't be quantified. You like what you like regardless of your income. You could be an heiress with a beloved Bobobie or a poor college kid eating ramen with a Volks limited.

Quantity: I generally assume that people with a lot of dolls have enough or had enough to get them.

What assumptions do you have in regards to an 'expensive' collection/collector?
My assumption is that they loved the doll(s) enough to get them regardless of the person's age. They obviously have or had the money to do it, so more power to 'em!

Do you think there is some sort of 'social' responsibility that a collector with a more 'expensive' collection has to you or the community?
No.

Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
Not that I'm aware of and frankly I don't care if they don't. It's none of their business.

EDIT I take that back. People at a little meet I went to seemed kinda surprised that I was getting both Soom Trond and Kivi. They were still polite enough not to say anything.

What do you say/tell people who seem to not understand or appreciate where your funds come from?
I would say that it is none of their business. Well, I'd actually smile or wink and change the subject. I have literally never had anyone tell me off because I tend towards limiteds or because two of my most expensive dolls were gifts. I don't make a big deal out of it and they don't make a big deal of it to me. Quite frankly I think the people the local community are way to polite and mature to even dream of doing something like openly whinge at me about something they have no part in. :-/

What sort of social responsibility do you have towards your local BJD community (or community in general)?
None. My self imposed responsibility is to be polite and respectful when handling their dolls.

This was a really strange thing to fill out. O_o I don't really care how people are able to afford their dolls because it's none of my business. When I see someone is able to get a doll I love, I may feel a twinge of envy but that's it. I don't judge them based on the collection they have either, that's an incredibly shallow thing to do.

 

Edited because I was called away mid-thought:

I'm sorry. I said "you" when I meant that generally (i.e. "one"). But what I wrote holds. If you and the other pressured members of your local community feel you have to "be nice" (against your natural inclination?) to keep other community members from hating you, then you all are hanging out with the wrong people and probably ought to reconsider the wisdom of doing so. It's like the old joke: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that!"

My word to Hawkeye is, if somebody from your community is pressuring you to be or act in a way that goes against the grain, it would be far more to the point to tell them to back the hell off than to post these wild and wacky surveys. If you feel a certain way, own it. You don't need to look for corroboration/validation on DoA.

 

This sums it up for me quite well, also.

About the only things I can even vaguely determine from someone's doll collection are whether we like the same kinds of dolls or not. (Do they buy mostly realistic or stylized dolls, do we buy the same size or not, do they buy adult style or child style or anthros... etc.) From photos, and seeing what people actually do with them, I generally figure, "Oooh, we have similar tastes in styles/aesthetics/artistic influences," or "we may have the very same collection on the surface, but our tastes are wildly different."

This whole notion of people 'owing' the community something -- aside from the basic things I feel we all owe our fellow human beings, like behaving civilly and treating others with respect -- is bunk, to me. Saying someone with a large collection should step aside for contests or must behave in XYZ fashion is as silly to me as it would be to say someone with a small collection has to revere someone with a large one. I find both downright ridiculous. Maybe I just have the good fortune that our local community is fairly small, or at least small enough that people can get to know the people beyond just their collections or what they bring to meets, and it's different everywhere else -- but I really prefer it that way, if that's the case.

 

Do you think there is some sort of 'social' responsibility that a collector with a more 'expensive' collection has to you or the community?
I don't feel anyone with more experience is responsible for anything. I think the only courtesy that more experienced owners should really be extending towards new owners is how not to utterly destroy their doll. It's one thing to end up with a lousy face up, but it's another thing to come away with an unintended hole in your doll's head (that you can't fix yourself) because you thought acetone would work. After that, tips are helpful, but no one's responsible for anything else. If I find a great way to make a dress, or how to make a cool accessory, I don't have an obligation to tell/show anyone how I did it. It would be a nice thing to do so, but I am under no obligation to do it.

I chose not to answer the other questions mainly because I really couldn't come up with a decent answer for them. As long as the person isn't doing anything illegal to get their money, and they can still survive (food, shelter) then I really don't care about the dolls they own, how many they have, or anything like that.

^I agree with this, too.

No one should be told how to behave in this hobby because of the kinds of dolls they own, or how many, or how new they are perceived to be. If someone has a lot of dolls, and doesn't want to enter a contest, then that's their prerogative and it shouldn't be determined by other people. That being said, if you want to look up to more experienced members, you can, but no one should be telling you to go out of your way to declare what they say as law. Also, just because the person has been in the hobby for a while doesn't necessarily mean that they know what they're doing.

This sort of brings to mind the scenarios where people get mad at other people for modding their doll because their doll happens to be a limited. That lends to the "owing the community something" theme, as well. In terms of contests, you can't assume they'll assign a winner by seeing who has the least amount of dolls, because that's not fair - heck, that's not how contests work. Contests are judged on the work you contribute, not how many dolls you own.

 

I'm also in the don't care group on this

However, I will say that you really can't make assumptions based on income and all that. I have a very good doll friend of mine who is still in college and doesn't have a large income but owns 6 of the Volks limited dolls, so quite expensive and her parents have not bought her any of them. She just looks for great deals and gets them.

 

To me, a lot of people don't care, because they know it's petty to act on assumptions based on age and income. You can have assumptions like you can have an opinion, but unless people ask for them, you keep them to yourself. (I actually have assumptions based on how people act, even on the internet. The way you act is a lot more truthful to your personality than your age or your income.)

To base anything on how many dolls a person has is ridiculous - you can have one doll and be able to afford a lot of dolls, you can be in the hobby a long time and not know much (and vice versa and all the other variants inbetween).

I'm a rather stubborn person, so if the community demands that I help out and hold social responsibility, I will politely refuse. I help out people because I want to, not because there's some higher calling saying I must or be forever damned.

If someone wants to think I'm financially irresponsible because, say, I'm old enough to drive and I don't have a car, but have lots of dolls; then I don't want them as my friend or acquaintance :

 

Such a strange conversation we're having.

Certainly in daily life humans make assumptions. We're wired to do so. However, making assumptions about people is a form of pigeonholing: that is, wanting to sort people into categories based on preconceived ideas. I honestly don't see the value in that, as when a person does so, s/he ends up seeing people the way s/he thought s/he would, and is frequently dead wrong.

Personally, my first impressions of people have been incorrect so many times that I don't try anymore to figure out who a person is, or what his/her circumstances are based on a first meeting. Doing so based on a few posts on a forum, quantity or quality of dolls, etc., seems even more futile. The people I've met through this forum are surprisingly diverse, wonderfully so. Do I make assumptions about people? Sure. But they are so often proven wrong that I find them not worth memorializing.

Codifying and organizing these assumptions makes as little sense to me as coming up with a byzantine list of the circumstances under which I will or will not give someone a ride. Why bother? If I really wanted to deny someone a ride even though I had ample room in my car, that would be my choice. No need for analysis or justification of my selfishness. Nor is there any need for me to make assumptions about other doll owners, or to worry about assumptions people have made about me, based on my dolls. I'm in this hobby for the enjoyment I get from creating and sharing my dolls with others, and in turn, seeing the creativity and love others put into their dolls. That's all, and that is plenty, IMO.

 

Do you know what happens when you assume?
Yes, I do.
That won't keep me from making assumptions (this person is old, young, boring, brilliant, stupid, nice, etc.), but acting upon assumptions is not the same as making them. While I may think someone with lots of expensive stuff may have had a lot of money (that is now spend on expensive stuff), I won't refuse them something based on that assumption. I wouldn't want someone to tell me that because I have a lot of dolls I should do X or Y, therefore I'd rather not do the same to someone else regardless of what I may think of them.
This thread also feels like an opportunity to give yourself a big pat on the back, so "Go me!".

 

As someone who has gone from having 30 dolls to just 10, without any major change in my social status/income and only a minor change in my age..... no. I don't make assumptions based on collection size, or the price of someone's dolls. I've met people who are flat broke who have fairly large collections due to family giving them gifts, and I have a very dear friend who has one single BJD, despite having a bank balance that is terrifyingly huge. Why doesn't he have more? Well, because he doesn't want any more. Money has no part to play in his decision to be a one doll person.

As for how I do judge people in this hobby (and I do- we all do, to some extent) I prefer to base my assumptions on what people say, how they conduct themselves on forums, the pictures they take and what they have written in their profile biographies. At the end of the day, it's far safer to base assumptions on what a person has actually said, rather than judging them on what they happen to own.


And with acting on assumptions? Well, I won't go into a transaction with someone if their behaviour suggests to me that their might be problems with it. Other than that, what is really being asked here? Should I have the right to police someone's behaviour because I think they have too many dolls? Too few dolls? Because I've been in the hobby longer than them and don't like how they dress their dolls? Do I think other people should be able to tell me what to do with my dolls- or even my life- if their collection is bigger of smaller than mine?

The answer to all of that is no, because really, when you think about it, it's just kind of silly.

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection?
Nope. All sorts of dolls out there with all sorts of owners.

What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
Once again no assumptions...

What assumptions do you have in regards to an 'expensive' collection/collector?
They simply like collecting the more limited or expensive dolls. Yeah, that's all there is to it.

Do you think there is some sort of 'social' responsibility that a collector with a more 'expensive' collection has to you or the community?
Well I suppose I'd prefer someone more experienced with a really limited or expensive doll. It is like I would hate to see any art piece (think Monet painting, ancient Buddhist statue, or whatever) sold to someone who will just mess it up because they don't know how to handle it or take care of it.

Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
Not so far but they don't have to understand, it isn't their business.

What do you say/tell people who seem to not understand or appreciate where your funds come from?
Mind their own business.

What sort of social responsibility do you have towards your local BJD community (or community in general)?
I think everyone has some sort of responsibility towards their community whether that is in their life or within their hobbies. I do think that striving to help others and be charitable and helpful and kind ends up coming back to you tenfold. And you get a profound sense of well being for doing some good in the world.

 

I consider being nice to others just part of being a good person. It's not something I do to avoid envy or otherwise manipulate people's feelings for me. Because of that, I don't feel any pressure at all.

We often only see the assumptions people are making about us (she must be rich to have so many dolls, she must be a snob because they're all expensive brands) and fail to notice that we are making assumptions too (she only has one doll so she must be poor, she doesn't have a car so she must be financially irresponsible and a mooch). I try to be aware of that fact at all times. It not only keeps me from making a lot of social blunders, but it saves me from feeling singled out and persecuted -- or pressured, as the case may be.

 

It kind of blows my mind that there seem to be so many assumptions wildly thrown around based on things like their dolls, their age, their car (or lack thereof). Since when did this hobby become THAT serious that people need to to have a psychological and sociological profile written up on them every time someone even considers their dolls or whether they are or aren't worthy of a ride to a meet up? And why is it assumed that everyone is jealous of everyone else's SUPA AWESOME dolls? That's way too reminiscent of moms saying to their forth grade girls, "Oh honey, those girls are just teasing you because they're jealous."

As for assumptions that we all make: Yes, we all do. However, I don't want my assumptions to lead to things like their psychological status, if they're wasting their money when they should be using it on a car or school, and such things. My assumptions are based on their actions and words as a community member and on their taste in dolls. I'll admit that more than once I've seen people on DoA go on a doll buying spree on the MP and then two months later they're selling all their dolls, each one tagged as "EMERGENCY SALE!!!" and I assume a rash of financial irresponsibility led to sudden trouble even though that's not necessarily true. It's one of those stupid prejudgments that people make.

And regarding the community here: I'm not a part of any doll meet-up community and I'm really not even much a part of DoA, so I don't feel like I owe any more than what I give, which is information if I have it and honest dealing in the Marketplace.

Regarding "lots of dolls = loaded, few dolls = pathetically poor and they must be jealous", that's nonsense. Until I hear someone with few dolls complaining that they're low on funds, then I'm definitely not going to assume that they aren't happy with one doll and wish they could have more. I have way too many dolls and I would love to cut my collection down, it's just slow-going to decide who stays and who goes.

That's really all I care to address. I think it's total hogwash that anyone could feel entitled to such judgments about things like income level, social responsibility, and (from the car thread since we're talking assumptions) how they should deal with mental illnesses all based on their doll collection and interactions in the doll community. I am content to keep this as just a hobby that deals with the dolls. I definitely didn't start collecting dolls as some status symbol or some strange window into my mind. They're just dolls and if staying pretty much out of this community is the only way to keep them just as that for me, then I am happy to stay quiet most of the time.

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection?
No, and I would find it odd if someone made certain assumptions about me based on the dolls that I have, the amount of dolls that I have and my age.

What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
I don't really make assumptions in this regard either. From reading threads on the topic, I know there's a tendency for newer collectors to have a dolly explosion early on (I had around 10 dolls in my first year in the hobby - layaway was a big part of this), but some people sell dolls and scale back (like I did) and others like having a large, diverse collection.

I don't assume that someone with a large collection of less expensive dolls has sacrificed quality for quantity, any more than I assume that someone with one superexpensive doll has bought their doll for status. I'm very uninterested in the reasons why people buy the dolls they have and much more interested in what they're doing with their dolls. I love creativity more than speculating over money.

What assumptions do you have in regards to an 'expensive' collection/collector?
Surprise, surprise – I don't assume anything about this either. I suppose to some people I appear to have an 'expensive' collection, I only collect Volks dolls and I have some LEs and one FCS head. The most important thing to note, however, is not that the dolls come from a certain company, are limiteds or hard to find, but that it took me a while to find these dolls (over half of them are second-hand dolls or hybrids from second-hand parts) and to work with them and be satisfied with them. If someone is checking out the collection of another person with a number of more expensive dolls, and feeling that the owner has money to burn, please be assured that this is most often not the case at all. It does take time (in my experience) to build a collection you're happy with, and it does no one any good to assume anything about anyone else based on the dolls that they have.

Unless I'm friends with someone, I don't really pay any attention to the amount they spend on dolls and how frequently they acquire new ones. I don't assume anything about how someone raises the money for their dolls.


Do you think there is some sort of 'social' responsibility that a collector with a more 'expensive' collection has to you or the community?
No. I believe strongly in personal responsibility – if there's a skill you would love to have, put in the time to acquire it! If you dream of being able to sew cute things for your dolls or doing your own face-ups, no one is obligated to teach you or do it for you for free, but there are lots of talented seamstresses who have put up free tutorials for doll clothes and lots of people who are happy to give constructive criticism for your work and help you improve. No one owes you anything just because they've been in the hobby longer or have a more expensive collection than you. I think having an attitude that the hobby owes you something is actually more damaging – people are more than happy to help and give you pointers if you ask nicely, rather than just expect them to do it for you.

Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
No one has asked me outright, but there are a few threads on the forum (like this one!) which make me question. I don't feel embarrassed about my collection or care very much what other people think of my dolls, but I do wonder if other people judge me or make assumptions about me as a person based on my dolls. I don't judge others, so I'd appreciate if people refrained from judging me.

What do you say/tell people who seem to not understand or appreciate where your funds come from?
I've not had this personally, but I would be taken aback. I started this hobby as an undergraduate student (very little spare funds!) and currently I'm a postgraduate student (even fewer spare funds!) I have saved, traded and used layaway to get the dolls that I have. Once I used my credit card to buy a doll direct from Volks, but I paid that back. I wouldn't find it difficult to explain that I've spent a lot of money, but I've been careful with it...I would feel uncomfortable to be called out on that though. I don't concern myself with other people's spending habits unless they directly impact on me, I would be grateful for the same treatment.

What sort of social responsibility do you have towards your local BJD community (or community in general)?
I try to go to meets, most of them clash with work or are a little too far away for me to make regular trips. I mainly keep in touch with the community through DoA, Twitter and the BJD Addicts group on Facebook. I try to be a positive community member and offer constructive criticism when asked and support wherever needed. Other than that, I don't really think I have a responsibility to the community. I have responsibilities as a DoA moderator and I take those seriously, but as an every-day hobbyist? No.

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection? What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
Some people have fewer dolls because they want to invest more time and money into each one. I think some people would rather have one really nice doll (with high-quality faceup, eyes, wig, clothes, shoes) than lots of mediocre dolls with average faceups dressed in socks with acrylic eyes. Quantity of dolls is necessarily connected to the age or the user or their financial situation.

For collectors with a 'fair amount' of money put into their collection....
Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
I would say I have a "fair bit" of money invested in my collection, at least it's a fair bit to me! I've never had anyone assume anything about me based on my dolls though. As for the social responsibility aspect... No, I do not think any doll collector has a social responsibility to the doll community per se. This is a fun activity, not the PTA. Sure it's NICE to help new people out and show them the dolly tricks someone showed you when you were new, but there's no obligation. There's also no connection between one's doll collection and contributions to charity.

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection?
I do tend to assume that teenagers received their dolls (or the money to purchase their dolls) as gifts, but rationally, I know that is not always true.

What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
None. I know people on a fixed retirement or disability income who have limited edition Sooms. I know of wealthy people who have decided on Bobobies instead of LE Volks dolls. A person's current income only plays a fairly small part in deciding what and how many dolls to purchase.

On a related note, I find it incredibly rude when people suggest that those who are having financial difficulties really must sell off their collection of dolls. Not only is this impractical (since the second hand doll market is so slow right now), but it's really not at all anyone else's business.

What assumptions do you have in regards to an 'expensive' collection/collector?
That they could afford to buy those dolls at some point in the past? What does this question mean? Am I supposed to think that everyone who has an expensive doll is currently filthy rich? That's silly.

Do you think there is some sort of 'social' responsibility that a collector with a more 'expensive' collection has to you or the community?
Uhhh... I think all human beings have a social responsibility to be decent to each other? I have a mid-size (15) collection of mid-price (mostly Luts & CustomHouse) dolls. What request is it that "expensive collectors" are getting?

Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
What do you say/tell people who seem to not understand or appreciate where your funds come from?
Nobody has ever asked, outside of the millions of threads here on DoA begging for information on "how to afford a doll when your income is small."

What sort of social responsibility do you have towards your local BJD community (or community in general)?
You have a responsibility to be a decent person and to avoid spoiling everyone else's fun at any given meet you attend. If you really feel that you're going to be an obnoxious, judgmental creep when you go to meets, please consider just staying home instead?

 

Do you make assumptions in regards to someone's age when it comes to their collection?
Not usually. I've noticed that some of the older ladies I know who have been in the hobby since the begining have some older styles of dolls that might not even be classified as true BJDs because the joints are different, but that probably has more to do with how long they've had the hobby and not necessarily their actual age.

What is your assumption in regards to Income and quantity/quality of dolls?
None really. Quality, quantity and expensiveness don't necessarily correlate well with each other. I'm actually a fan of buying neglected dollies and transforming them into something awesome and it doesn't cost nearly as much as most people would think, especially if you have tons of art supplies, fabric, and fake hair left over from comission work for people-sized projects.

Do you ever have people not understand where your funds for the collection comes from?
Few people know what they cost, and those that know understand completely.

-Is there 'assumptions' made about you/your collection, due to your age/job.
If the people I work with knew about it, they would probably think its a weird hobby but beyond that not really.


What do you say/tell people who seem to not understand or appreciate where your funds come from?
Like I said, those who know understand and know that its because I save and don't by other things that I don't find interesting

What sort of social responsibility do you have towards your local BJD community (or community in general)?
General courtesy and not touching the doll unless you have the owner's permission. I try to be helpful with teaching people to sew and whatnot, but I think that is something extra I do because I enjoy it not something that I'm somehow socially bound to do.