Alice in Wonderland and dolls

Thanks for the info on the Grimm's version and the authors of the classic stories. I kinda forgot who wrote what for a minute...

I never got to see the second part of the Alice in Wonderland movie, just thought that they wanted it to be a cliff hanger or leave it open for a sequel later...

I like fairy tales, my favorite stories are Aesop's fables done by The Rocky and BullWinkle Show "Fractured Fairytales". Long time ago...

I watched the Lolita movie ( 1997 with Jeremy Irons as Humbert(?) )
I love that version, though the early movie and book make the School Teacher guy more of a pervert than this movie did.
I agree that the appeal of the adult loli look has a lot to do with the "Perfect Girl" ideal. Sweet, innocent and sexy... which doesn't really work with a lot of styles.

Back to the topic... I do think image has a lot to do with marketing, if something is widely recognized, then it helps people associate an image with a product. Coca Cola Polar bears, The BullTerrier Target dog. The RCA dogs.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they're not Brothers Grimm stories. XD

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland was written by the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (AKA Lewis Carroll) and The Little Mermaid is a Hans Christian Andersen piece. (My favourite fairy tales author.)

 

If it's about that it's such a classical story and everybody knows it and the story is so amazing then how come I haven't seen Snowwhite anywhere or Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty and Rapunzel?

 

Alice in Wonderland is less of a fairy tale like those, and more of an individual story that stands out more by itself.

It's not a classic pretty story about Princesses. It's a piece of literary nonsense, the entire book is full of nonsensical things with anthropomorphic characters, and the whole thing is just about a young girl getting lost.

It's something that young girls can relate to more, because Alice is not a Princess and she doesn't live in a magical kingdom, she's a real girl who has fantastic adventures.

Also, it has the appeal of deeper meanings to adults, so it remains with you when you get older.

 

i know! i know! because alice in wonderland is one of the best stories ever!!

 

I read the books when I was a child and identified with Alice. We seemed to have a lot in common: much older sisters, no one to play with, and a wild imagination. My mother often reminded me of the Red Queen because she was temperamental and had tantrums when she was mad. I fully expected her to yell "Off with their heads!". I have a little collection of Alice dolls and also Tinker Bell. I guess I never quite grew up.

 

I have to agree a lot. I never said I liked the books until I read the books then found out that half of the stuff that people said were in them, weren't there. Also, most claimed it was a story with "dark undertones" but really if you look at it was about Queen Victoria (The Queen of Hearts) and Alice a new noble. And how noble life was back then. (Seriously even the mad hatter made sense thanks to the mercury.)

I used to love Alice until it got blown way out of proportion so I just stick with that small JabberWocky tale from the Looking Glass. (After having to memorize the poem then make a movie poster in graphic design you get kind of attached.) Haha, but I think the reason people like it so much is not because of the books but because of the stuff that spawned off of them. Most people who claim that they love Alice can't even find the book in the book store! So I'll be honest and say that I think right now it's more of a fad thing then anything else.

My thoughts are that it will die down again. (Like the Nightmare Before Christmas.) since Hot Topic is slowing down their production of Alice clothes. It sounds sort of mean yet I can see it happening. Though, I also believe that they're some on here who do it not because they think it's the new "cool" thing to do but because they really just love the story. Both child like aspects of it and the over all hidden message within it. Sure I know my theory can be really flawed but I 'unno. I just see it dying. Like the one Alice in Wonderland picture request, shot up so fast then almost instantly died.

What I honestly believe actually drags people to this though is the fact that it is a young girl into a wondrous world that no one can explain and that no one had come up with until that point. And her dress was very plain and simple making it rather appealing since most nobles wore those huge gowns and what not, because it was the style but Alice stood out. So lolita mixed with Alice equals BJD clothing heaven. haha (If anyone actually read all of that I'm amazed. And this is just my two two cents so you don't agree with me please don't rip me apart.)

 

Personally, I've always liked the dark side of the Alice stories. I mean, the Disney version was fine and there's plenty of fun and cute to be had, but if you really look at it, Wonderland is a freaky, scary place. And then in the middle of it you have this girl who's less and less sure of her own identity. She's a confused innocent, stuck in a world where nothing makes sense and everything she's ever learned no longer applies. It's a growing-up allegory, and anyone who's ever grown up knows how scary that is! XD And of course, it can't be discounted that the books were written by a pedophile, about a girl he really knew. So yeah. Dark. But I've always had a fascination with it, and I'd guess that maybe some others feel the same way. There's a lot of meaning that can be attached to that white pinafore. ^^

 

Actually, he wasn't known to be a peadophille. He is suspected of possibly being one based on his close relationship with Alice Liddell, because of some photos he took of her dressed as the Little Match Girl which today seem rather inappropriate, and because of the suddenness with which his friendship with the family ended. However, one has to remember that the Victorians weren't as prude as we make them out to be, and that those photos really weren't anything out of the ordinary for the time. As for the ending of his friendship with the family several Carroll scholars believe it to be because it was discovered he was having a relationship with the Liddell girl's nanny. That would also explain why he spent so much time with Alice and her sister, because where they went, the nanny went.

Even those Carroll scholars who believe him to have harbored peadophillic feelings towards Alice don't believe him to ever have acted on those feelings.

 

Good point. My guess is maybe it's because those characters are not children. As a child at the time, I could probably identify more with Alice, so maybe that's the case with others. Plus although those stories are classic, they just seem to be really similar (they all get a prince at the end and live "happily ever after".) Wonderland is just that, a wonderland. Alice isn't royalty and she's just a little girl, with not much to worry about. The characters in Wonderland, most of them anyway, are just common things that could be found about the house (like chess pieces and playing cards) or animals that live close by in hedges and holes (rabbits, mice, butterflies, caterpillars, etc.) Stories like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty are great and very uh...magical, but in my opinion, perhaps a walking, talking rabbit is more fascinating to children, and people in general.

I honestly don't know. It just has a certain appeal that other classic stories don't have and it's also about preference. Some see it as a very twisted dark story, (kind of like American McGee's Alice) so that may be part of the appeal as well. However, I'd love to see dolls portrayed as Snow White or Rapunzel too (and I don't mean just the Disney versions. Most of the Brother's Grimm stories have different version anyway.)

 

This... Is actually a myth... Sort of like the George Washington "I can not tell a lie," cherry tree story it's one of those things that one person thought of then everyone jumped on the bandwagon without researching the real facts properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Carroll#.22The_Carroll_Myth.22

Above link gives the summary of the attempts of modern biographers to overturn the Carroll Myth.

On topic though... Alice in Wonderland is just so cute and wonderful! You have to love it! It's just so... Mathematical! Although my favorite Carroll work isn't the books he's most famous for, but 'The Hunting of the Snark.' I'm in the camp that it wasn't a Boojum that killed the Baker but Boots.

 

Lewis Carroll's Alice is a satire on English Victorian society. From that standpoint it is very sharp witted. However, there are many collectors who collect Alice dolls. I love the (original) stories and I collect Alice dolls among others. I also like the new series "The Looking Glass Wars" by Frank Bedda -- I think. However, the bottom line is: Alice is an adorable child doll -- As someone else in the group said, "What's not to like!" Barb. (in L.A.)

 

The aesthetick of the original Alice illustrations had a big influence on the Japanese ^_^ You see a lot of manga with alice-inspired lolita outfits. Remember, these are Abjds, so the ideals are the same ^^ I guess it was then absorbed by Korean companies.

 

I would argue that she is, because of the shoes more than anything, not so much the other cast members. You can throw on any blue sundress with a white shirt under it, so long as you have bright red shoes, and people are gonna know who you're trying to be, lol. It's the shoes.

Although, of course, the original silver slippers from the books are not so recognizable by modern audiences...

 

I'm inclined to agree with Grey here ^_^. When Alice was first introduced in Japan, it had a tremendous impact on many people. I read a paper from one of the Unis (It either Kyoto or Geidai, forgot which) about the influence of Alice on Japanese pop culture, and, to a certain extent, that of Gothloli culture.

I think if I see one more manga based on Alice...

 

follow the white rabbit (in the matrix)

there it is too
it's somehow a deeply embedded thing in us..

 

There are a lot of Alice themed costumes with these dolls because there is a large fascination with it in Japan. It's one of the more popular children's books and it's influence goes beyond dolls. I think every single shoujo manga that involves a girl going to a fantastical world is based directly on Alice.

It's also why you see Anne of Green Gables themed dolls and clothing popping up, for some reason, those books are insanely popular in Japan.

 

And it's not just girls getting whisked away anymore; there's a show where this guy gets flushed down a toilet into another world....

Hmm, I haven't actually checked out many if any Alice in Wonderland dolls; I only saw the movie a couple of times as a kid when it was on TV. Though I think I watched a TV show based on it quite often. Or perhaps it was another movie; it was live-action, that I know.

But yeah, what with Alice being a breath of fresh air compared to useless princesses that need rescuing, I can definetly see how it appeals. It's different, but still whimsical.

 

And the pigtails.

As far as book vs. movie, one has to remember that a ready-made movie visual is easier to identify in a doll costume or manga drawing than trying to depict a written description. The whole point is an iconic image. People react to it.

I think the fashion and the familiarity has a lot to do with the popularity in dolls, in conjunction with the popularity of the story. We don't see a lot of dolls wearing costumes meant to be traditional Japanese fable heroines; they're not as recognizable, and the clothes aren't as cute (I guess). I have seen fashion-type Japanese dolls as historical characters, but not in the BJD hobby. Perhaps they know many BJD collectors are not the type to recognize those figures, but are the types to jump in on a discussion of "well I read the books!"

Personally I wish there were more Little Red Riding Hood outfits out there! (But I made one myself instead.)

My favorite Alice is the Svankmajer version. Can't say I fancy anything else having to do with that nonsense.

 

I'm currently reading the English language version of the Rozen Maiden manga and, based on this particular translation that was done by Tokyopop, there's a lot of Alice references in addition to having the main characters be living ball-jointed dolls. (In fact, there is even one mention in one of the volumes of the fact that they have ball joints during the scene where the Rozen Maiden dolls are given baths while their clothes are put in the laundry.) I haven't read the whole series yet (as of this writing) because Tokyopop hasn't gone through with releasing everything but I have a feeling that there will be an Alice in Wonderland-inspired conclusion of some sort.

In case you haven't read this series, the gist of it is that there are seven ball-jointed dolls in a special series known as Rozen Maidens. Each of the dolls is expected to play "The Alice Game" where they fight a series of battles among each other in order to become "Alice". If the references to Alice aren't enough, there is also a mysterious character who shows up from time to time who is a tall thin white rabbit who wears a top hat, bow tie, and a suit with tails. He seems like a more sinister version of the original White Rabbit.