Artists Using Doll Likenesses without Crediting [Mijn Schatje discussion]

If you think people are being over the top, call them out on where they are being over the top, not here.

 

How are people taking this too far, in your opinion? All the discussions I've seen have been surprisingly mature on all the forums I'm at (I don't speak Dutch, so I can't speak for your local forums, though) and all that has been done is to inform the galleries, the owners of the pictures and the doll creators of what she's done. Which part of this is over the top?

Also, don't you think it's in a bit bad taste to comparing this to the holocaust? Are no one allowed to care for anything less severe than genocide?

 

You're dropping phrases like "it's not the holocaust" and admitting that you haven't read the thread... all the while telling people to stop talking because you're not interested in the discussion.

 

I just really think that way to many people got involved in this, and it should be left to the companies to deal with this. Mijn Schatje is still human, a human who's career is about to be ruined. Again, yes, its her own fault. I just think the entire BJD community unleashing their rage on her will not really do anything good. It already happend, she will suffer the concequinces, no need to make it worse.

and I am here discussing this.. well.. maybe for the sake of debate.. this WAS the debate forum.. right?

I am reading the thread right now, if it will make you all feel so much better about it. But I really doubt my opinion is going to change.

My own defenition of a troll must be completely different from yours, I guess.

 

Man thats juat a little like doing what you're against IMO.
Whatever.
Ever consider that the people posting that have contacted the compaies, galleries, papers, ect are also posting online to keep others updated?
Harrasing the people with stolen works via a million e-mails of "hey your stuff was stolen" won't do much to help the situation. Once they know they know.
Up dating a community that cares is not wrong at all.
Some people may ove react (like yourself?) and some people may just follow, help point out what other molds were used or images or, as I already said, other taken clip art.

I hadn't heard of her till this started, no worry of seeing her art anywhere if I haven't already or so I hope. But knowing about it and say, going somewhere and seeing her stuff? Yeah I'd mention that it was stolen work to the people selling it. They've got a right to know.
As do I. As does everyone else here.
And maybe someone with a stolen picture didn't know of her either!

But I'm assuming that was never thought of. This might clue someone in and they didn't know they'd had work taken.
so many possibilities.

 

I don't see why you wasted your time commenting if you didn't bother to get your facts right. She insists she is not a collage artist. Feel free to go and enjoy your apathy until it happens to you one day and nobody gives a damn.

 

It's not only the companies whose pictures were taken. There are private owner's pictures who were taken without their permission and Mijn not giving credit. Her career blossomed because of this fraud tracing business she was doing.

Can't we the BJD community do something and spread the word of this fraud artist? Is it too much when people start taking action and calling up the galleries to inform and to show proof that this artist doesn't give genuine and original artworks?

I have to say, 'Kudos!' to the people who actually took action and spreading the word about this artist.

 

How is the BJD community unleashing their rage? Complaining about it on our own forum and privately contacting galleries, owners, and companies? Truly, she's lucky she stole from members of a benign community like the doll community rather than 4chan.

If her career is ruined, it's ruined by her own dishonesty. Fortunately for her, she's publicized her work through a pseudonym.... and if she stops tracing, her work will be completely unrecognizable from the pieces she's been called out on. She could easily slip back into the art world unnoticed and start again.

 

Dude, I wouldn't even want to see what it would be like if she'd pissed off 4chan instead of us. This is tiddlywinks compared to the wrath of Anonymous.

All the BJD community is doing is what they should be doing -- getting the word out to the parties who were unwittingly involved in the theft and in lining her pockets through the unlicensed use of their work. Any other community of artists would do the same thing, I should think.

 

Is it sad that my boyfriend told me to post it on 4chan? XD

He's such a prick. He also admins a local forum so at this point in time I think he's allowed to be. He sparks my sympathy for mods all the time. Just not him XD

Anyways. Now posting it on 4chan. That'd be wrong a fruitless! Well it would gain some awesome photoshop works but yeah. We're productive!

Okay I'll stop adding to the OT chaos now and get back to being an adult.

 

For the record, I agree with most of what you're saying and I've read this entire discussion. I think sometimes people tend to forget on the internet that the people on the other side are real, living, people. And I also think that this is starting to become a little bit more like a personal attack now than a discussion like the original discussion was, at first. Honestly, if there are any more updates on this situation, I would love to hear them, but it seems like the comments are becoming more "I hate her and I want her life to be ruined." instead of anything really informative.

And I do feel badly for the artist, though I realize what she did was wrong. Because I don't think anybody diserves this kind of drama and stress. I think that people should write to her personally if they are involved, and yes, the community should be notified. But this thread was for the debate of a more general issue, and I think it has gotten a bit off topic since now it is simply about this one situation and doesn't really seem up for debate.

 

I enjoyed this word, but in all seriousness word of mouth is insanely effective.

When it comes to being a successful artist it seems like "existing" is half the battle. I also feel that this thread has been very informative. Anyone involved in the arts should make it a point to try and educate themselves on copyright law. I appreciate everything that has been contributed. Thanks all!

 

So by your logic, I should have never made such a big deal about when Kazakai tried to steal my dolls, and should never have gone public with my pressing charges against her? I know that this is an OT example, but it's basically the same thing.

We are a community and we are lucky to have such a passionate and caring community as we do. If another dolly collector is getting hurt in some way or taken advantage of, not only do I want to know about it, I want to do everything that I can to help that person.

For me personally, that means that I carry the signature on DOA that I do so that other people who may have been scammed by some dishonest person can have someone to ask questions. Currently there is a situation that I've been able to answer questions for and will hopefully help those owners get what is theirs back.

How does my giant wall of text that seems OT have to do with art theft? Just because I'm not personally involved with the whole theft of art - none of my photos were stolen - that doesn't meant that I'm not going to participate and help my fellow collectors any way that I can. I personally have not sent any messages (because I'm sure everyone (galleries etc) are overflowing with mail, but I sure as heck think that all this "drama" is a positive thing.

Without all this "drama" people still would have been taken advantage of, and having their hard work stolen from them. And that is wrong.

 

Well according to Becky's flickr, Mijn has told her she will take down all instances of photos based off her work and the ones for sale.

I would say that's a start.

I don't agree with uninvolved people emailing her to hassle her (although in this case it seems to have had an effect?) but saying that it's unfair to criticize her just because she's a real person seems ludicrous to me. I don't think I've seen any vicious overly personal attacks on here. We're criticizing her work. When you base your career on a lie, it's bound to happen. I think the vast majority of artists understand that.

On some level, she must understand it too. Why else would she have hidden the fact that she was using other people's photos for her art? If she saw nothing wrong with it, couldn't she have said so in all her art magazine interviews?

The fact of the matter is that if she had been honest about it, we'd never be having this conversation. She wouldn't have been covered--period. I forget which site I read this on, but as someone said, this is an editor's worst nightmare. The second an editor sees that an artist used someone else's anything a red flag goes up. They'll want to know where the image is pulled from, and the degree to which it was copied. Had she shown them the photos she used, I think they would've insisted that she show proof of consent from the photographers, at the very least.

I find this pity party for her strange. She's not a child. She's a grown adult who has made money by being intentionally deceptive. There are consequences for that, and they usually start with not being able to make money anymore by those means. I think that's all most of us are hoping for. If she pulls all the art based on images she did not receive consent to use and starts making 100% original art, that's fine by me.

I don't think anyone here wants or needs to destroy her career. She's doing a fine job of that all on her own.

 

No, by my logic, it doesn't belong in the debate forum. What exactly are we debating if we all say that she was wrong?

 

I personally think that it is in the Debate forum because this particular forum is geared more towards a discussion such as this. Not every person who has come into the thread and posted has had the same opinion, and we have for the most part been able to discuss our views civilly.

 

Yeah... no. I wouldn't sic 4chan on anyone... and it's entirely possibly that it would come back on our forum negatively. My feeling is that you do reap what you sow - good or bad.

I would hate to see her get professionally trolled; not only would it be unfair to her, trolling would really undermine the more logical discussions going on about the plagiarism.

 

I disagree, which is why I felt the need to say something, defending, in a way, what Tannie had to say. I think that this thread has gotten a bit out of hand now, with members saying very hurtful, biting things to other members. And as far as I can see, we're all on the same page regarding this particular situation. Only disagreeing on little phrases and the like.

I'm simply going to go read other threads, because I really hate to argue with people, specifically over the internet where things can so easily be taken the wrong way. But I will say that I enjoyed this particular debate thread far more before this particular artist was mentioned. I found it more interesting to me, personally. Even though I was interested to hear about this tracing art thing, I don't think it's something to debate. Sorry if that irritates anybody. It's not my intention.

 

beidoll>> I think the argument about whether what Mijn Schatje has done is a perfectly debatable topic. It just happens that most of the people in the thread are on the side that argues tracing is wrong/bad/unfair to the original artists/whatever, and that very few people are on the side that's arguing that tracing is perfectly legit and an art form in its own right. :\

 

4chan is an epic disaster useful for trolling trolls.
And amusing yourself at 4 am when you can't sleep but that's beside the point.

No I wouldn't really post an issue such as this on there. If someone else did. That is their... Epic disaster all their own. I'm sure at a later date the overreactive side of this issue will, at the least, end up there and I will be amused when it is all done with.

Till then.I'd like to see something actually come from it such as. Issues fixed. Which is does seem there is a start on. Makes me feel better about humanity as a whole. Sorta.