Artists Using Doll Likenesses without Crediting [Mijn Schatje discussion]

This is a very interesting case. It seems to me that the sin lies in tracing other peoples and companies photos of their dolls and then selling the tracing for profit. Do I have it right? I think it would be grayer if she were tracing photos of her dolls that she had taken herself and then credited the company/sculptor of the doll for their sculpt. Does anyone think that such (owner doll, owner photo, owner tracing, crediting sculptor/company) art made using BJDs for sale is wrong?

 

To be fair I think it's always better to ask the company if they are ok with it first, since you are tracing a face that does not belong to you.

 

mclamm7 - If not for sale I think you are okay with just crediting the company (morally - I'm not going to bother with legally). But, it you want to sell you prints - especially for a lot of money - they you should not just credit but get permission from to company. I think most BJD companies (just not the large ones) would be happy to grant permission to help promote their dolls. I'm sculpting, and I know, personally, if someone just asked to use my work in their art I would be very happy to let them as long as the credit me somewhere. But if I just found someones work that was identical to mine, that was being sold, that I was never informed of, I would be a little upset - if there was no credit I would be very upset and angry. I think it needs to be remembered that these dolls are art - and a product of hard work. Buying a doll doesn't buy you the rights to that image, in my opinion. Just ask - it isn't that hard - if you don't get approved, oh well, find someone else that will approve you.

I just want people to know - yesterday Mijn gained about 20 facebook fans. This is definitely bringing attention to her that isn't all bad. Be careful about being rude and making comments when you are angry. She is always polite and I think being angry - though we have a right to be - may put us in a bad light and push more people on her side (because people like to fight against those angry haters). We want to show that we are intelligent and rational people that deserve to be listened to - which most have, but some are taking it a little to far (I know it is hard - I have been tempted to contact all of her friends - but I know that is not my place and it wouldn't help).

 

I agree with you, firefly. We need to be calm, otherwise it bodes better for Mijn as far as playing the victim.

 

When I first saw this thread yesterday, I thought it was probably something blown out of proportion, because a situation like this is just unbelievable. And then I looked at radiotrash's website and the evidence provided here. I'm still blown away by the whole thing.

I really hope that everyone who's property has been stolen gets a resolution to this, and that it's something hefty enough that Mijn Schatje will not consider this kind of work as an option in the future.

 

(excuse me if i missed something)
but has anyone contacted disney and audrey kawasaki yet?

 

I agree, but I think this should be done in an organized manner. We do not want to bombarded those who have been ripped off either. Is radiotrash willing to continue to contact artists and companies even if they are not BJD companies? Or perhaps someone else could volunteer to organize information and make contacts.

 

yes, i agree.
bombarding everyone with 3498354379 emails is NOT going to help, whether they were polite or angry.
this needs to be dealt with in an organized, polite manner.
i understand everyone (including myself) is furious, but we need to try to not act out of anger.

 

This has popped up on another forum I am part of... Someone made mention there that she now claims that the faces she uses are obitsu face plates.

Face plates? I've been all over the parabox website and I've never seen a face plate. Heads, yes but they look nothing like the other company's sculpts (I currently have a couple different floating heads in my possession).

VV brought it up. VV, you there? Can you expand on what you said on the other forum? (Edit: Oops... It wasn't VV. Sorry, VV)

 

Yeah- the whole obitsu head plate thing is really weird. No such thing exists as far as I know.
Also, picked this up off of the Luts site this morning:

"This web site or any portion of this site may not be reproduced, copied, duplicated, sold, resold, publicly display, or otherwise exploited for any commercial purpose without
the prior expressed written permission of "LUTS". "

That's pretty explicit, and I think pretty standard. I'm sure I've seen the same disclaimer on other websites.

This whole thing makes me feel really sad.

 

The head in my avatar is a Haruka and you have a Gretel in yours, right Mom? Those are the two main head sculpts besides Henzel and the unnamed one.

 

I believe in at least one of Luts' official pictures (at least in the Elf El 2004 one that was recently overlaid), Luts' copyright 'ALL RIGHTS RESERVED' disclaimer is right at the top of the image she used.

 

Leloi- no, my current avatar is Elfdoll Soah, although I have used Gretel in the past.

 

nevermind

 

that one is actually the same photo as the banner she uses.
it is at the top of the radio trash page http://radiotrash.org/mijn/

 

ahhh okay glad its been found

 

I own several of the original open-eyed head, plus a Gretel and a Haruka. The open-eye head is the only one actually designed and made by Obitsu; Gretel, Haruka, the male Henzel head and the 45cm Angela head are all made by Parabox to fit on the Obitsu bodies.

At no point have either Obitsu or parabox ever produced heads with face-plates, and I can catagorically confirm that none of the images she has produced have been based on an Obitsu or a Parabox sculpt.

 

She just keeps making up more and more stuff. The lies are piling up and honestly, they aren't helping her at all.

I think you guys are right though, we should do this in a calm, intellectual manner. I still think it would be a good idea to write to a newspaper or art magazine, and maybe get some attention on the matter. Us just conversing about it isn't going to get us very far.

It's not even that we don't like her, we just don't like what she's doing. If she would just admit what she did and take the prints off her for sale lists, then there would be no problem.

I really do wonder what she'll create after she has to stop tracing BJDs. Maybe some more tigers or boom boxes? I don't understand how they can consider tracing, copying and pasting any form of art, at least without citation.

 

I am going to put a list up on the site showing who has been contacted already. Anyone that has emailed a gallery/company/magazine/whathaveyou please PM or email me (email is on the site) with the name of the company you have contacted. This way we can keep track of who has been notified and who hasn't. I'll also pass this list along to a mod so they can put it in the first post of this thread.

 

I will put it as an aside that Parabox did not design the Haruka, that is another Obitsu designed head. Haruka does not have a 'PB-' designation and the back of the head has the obitsu symbol with 'Haruka . Obitsu'. My Gretel has on the back of his head 'PB-6001', making the (old) Gretel the first Parabox designed head. The headcaps are completely different too, Haruka's is easier to remove and put back on than Gretel or Henzel's.


I've been following this on another site but thought I'd nose it here also. A friend of mine had a thread of people on another site go at her yesterday for stating that tracing a readily available photo of a wolf was art theft - so many people claiming that, despite the fact the lines matched directly, it could only have bern an 'inspiration' or a 'reference' because you 'cannot prove she didn't take that photo' and 'tracing a photo is not theft'. If there are people in this world who think THAT, it surprises me not that this person gets away with things like this.