Artists Using Doll Likenesses without Crediting [Mijn Schatje discussion]

But... there's already a lot of great doll art out there, in a variety of styles and mediums. If the whole idea is just to get more doll-based art out into the market in your own style, power to you. But I'd just as soon leave Mijn's name and style out of it. In which case, it's a completely separate project and not really relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

I kind of agree with E.Hadrian and kiradyn_rhiode on this. I think if you want to do something similar to her for the art of it that is fine - but doing it despite her or associating it with her work in anyway doesn't really help our point. We don't want to come off like crazy people on a witch hunt, because that isn't helping us to be taken seriously. Her fans will just try to prove that we have way too much time on our hands and just really have something against Marie. Edit since I take way too long to type - If you guys want to do something like this (like a calendar that was mentioned or something like that) that is not associated with her I will support it (and I will contribute if I have time.. but I kind of doubt it) but I really don't think it will take away any of her "business". If this has done anything good it shows that there is a market for BJD style art, and it can help popularize the hobby and a "new" form of art with these dolls, if done legally and with good intentions.

I do think tracing something can be an art though, especially when it comes to vector art, it just takes a different skill than creating something on your own. I am not going to argue what is more of an art, but I'll say I do really respect people that can just sit down with a pencil or paint brush and create beautiful work. But with tracing, it is just important to either use your own work or get permission, and probably not rely on it as much as Mijn seems to. I do plan on making nice vector art of the dolls I am making, just because I have always enjoyed playing with vectors and I think it would be fun and nice to have good portraits of them. I probably won't sell prints or anything though and just use it for my website, unless somehow I manages to make it good enough that people really wanted them. It would be nice to prove how easy it is to create nice images from something you directly traced - but I think most people associated with Mijn wouldn't care. Again, they just want to show that we are crazy. (Here is a response of one of her fans, if your looking to be disgusted. I hate when people justify wrong actions with the past too).

 

Stories like that make me really paranoiac... Here I was, sad because I couldn't take great pictures of my boy and now I'm nearly happy that someone won't steal the work I put in my doll because I fail as a photographer ! (even if it's only finding him eyes and a wig and clothes I like, he is *my* baby, I don't want other people stealing his image to do whatever with him... )

 

Okay, I've posted the deviantART news: http://news.deviantart.com/article/82633/

I hope I worded everything alright... xD

 

Larien - Great ^_^. Maybe you should change claims to claimed though, because she does keep changing her story and I don't think she claims they are from scratch anymore (and I could see something say "she doesn't claim that, see here, blah blah blah"). Also, is there anyway you could write about how deceitful she is being, without sounding too attacking? Like about how though she comes across as polite she is constantly changing her story and trying to manipulate the situation to look like she is the victim. And that she shows absolutely no remorse and refuses to clearly admit to what she is doing or that it is wrong. I think her interactions with Blastmilk says loads about her character.

 

Ah good points, thank you! I'll do that now.

Edit: Except I can't edit news, according to the FAQ for 'security reasons.' Well when people click the link they'll see. Darn it, sorry about that.

Also yeah that link you showed us made me nice and mad. However, I left him a comment that will totally own him. He probably will delete it, since I made him look like a fool, but check back in case he has the nerve to allow it through. No name calling, just the facts thrown in his face. xD

 

I responded to that person's blog. I will post my comment here incase they do not approve it. However, they seem to curse and yell a lot so I get the feeling thier response to my comment might reflect their tendency to prove something is logical by yelling "F* you I say it is true so it is blah blah bla"

Anyway, here is what I said.

"Hmm...I work for a very small family owned business, I have no facebook account, and I am getting an MA in history. I still think what she is doing lacks artistic integrity. She is not using source material; she is tracing and did for years without referencing. Furthermore, if any historian used someone's ideas and claimed them as their own the way she has done in the past with her art, they would be laughed out of the profession. BTW: History is full of hateful wars and cruel dictators, so just because it is a part of history and people have done it in the past that still doesn't make it ok. Your logic flawed."

It is sad, but people like this are everywhere. You just have to accept what they say with a grain of salt and stick by your guns. Just because we believe differntly is no need to insult each other. He could have seen this as a chance to have discussions with those who beleive differently than him, but instead he is name calling. Honestly, if he had not said something about history I would not have bothered as people like this tend to be scared and angered by opinions that differ from their own.

I think in the future I will refain from even bothering with people like this. It is not worth my time or effort.

 

I like his reply to someone saying something. Just attacking someone who posts something with no hate, that's pretty lame. You know I always hated the phrase "what have you done" when someone questions something. It's like saying "what would your mother say". Personal achivements or mommies point of view really don't have bearing on any matter.

That being beside the point, those artist painted back then in the 16th-18th century. In the 21st century we do things a little bit different now.

 

His response is a little "Leave Britney Alone" isn't it? (You know the man off of youtube?)
How strange ^^

 

I wonder how he'd respond had it been one of his precious novels that had been plaigerised. [insert eyerolling here]

 

xD Nice.

Anyway I really hope he posts my comment, 'cause I just totally owned him. Hehehe. But it's stupid, his argument is ridiculous. And then swearing at anyone with a difference in opinion rather than just listening to our side? What is he, five?

 

Intellectually, maybe? :\

He's just throwing a temper tantrum because other people have differing opinions. Because GOD FORBID WE HAVE THOUGHTS AND IDEALS THAT CONTRADICT HIS!! OAO

I wish I could add my favourite eyerolling emote... ^^;; I don't know if DoA has one, and what the text code is if there is.

 

kiradyn_rhiode (it is : roll : (take out spaces))

 

NabeeRain>> Oh! I knew I've seen it before! 8D *delighted*

I love emotes. X3 Wonderful little things, they are. The little smirk at the end (or beginning?) of the animation is a hoot.

 

I wanna see what you posted too! I think both of us have logic and facts on our side. But, I doubt it will do much good lol (I mean, we both read his post lol)

kirady_rhiode...I them too! DoA has some of the best forum emotes out there imho

 

But he's an editor... We've done nothing in comparison to him.

I thought this was funny. The next post after Mijn is about only rinsing his hair with water, no shampoo or conditioner.He's been doing that for two months...

 

Gross... I bet he stinks. But I just think it's funny that he thinks his stupid blog is the authority on what art is good or not. Like I'm going to heed the word of someone who doesn't wash his hair.

Devart news post has 6 favs so far, and who knows how many have read it. If anyone here has a devart page and hasn't favorited it, I suggest it because the more favs it gets, the more it will be seen and might be in the little sidebar of today's popular posts.

 

::Nods:: Good work so far guys. Stay calm and don't react to personal insults. stick with the facts.

Re: "Our own" vector-traced art.

First, this is not meant in any way as a nyah nyah at Mijn. There clearly is a market. Might as well see if we can get some compensation for the people who were ripped off out of it. Whatever is done has to be done better than she did (IMHO not that hard, but YMMV).

Second, when I said "we might be able to guilt the same galleries" again, this was not a thumb to the nose--it is that we can use the moment to leverage getting a print in there. This will only work once, but it could be enough to get the defrauded owners of the original photos some compensation.

That is, in the end, what the idea of doing this sort of art is really about. Getting them some compensation. Nothing more. The market is there, take quick advantage of it.

Third, and this is from the perspective of someone who has been "in a marketplace" for almost 30 years--the majority of people look at something, like the look of it, and frankly do not care "who" produced it, or how, or why. It is only the critics and a handful of vocal fans/supporters who care. Don't be fooled by blogs and articles and passionate words for/against. In the case of an artwork in the $10-$3000 price range, people look at it, say "pretty", buy it and take it home, the end. All you have to do is look at the success of Precious Moments (on the low end) and Thomas Kincade (on the high end of that price range) to realize this is true. Whatever you think of either of these, the fact is there are a LOT of people that look at the works in both categories, go "ooh pretty" and pay money to have it in their house.

 

That guy needs to learn the difference between referencing a source image to draw and vector tracing personal photos and stock without permission or paying royalties...

 

That's what I said in my comment to him. He was saying WE need to be educated, but he can't tell the difference between a reference and tracing something outright with no permission. I mean COME ON, it's wrong no matter how you look at it! I'm so tired of the underlying attitude that seems to suggest doll photography is insignificant. It's so elitist and silly.