Artists Using Doll Likenesses without Crediting [Mijn Schatje discussion]

That man disgusts me. Hope he gets lice.

 

I'm still amazed that someone is willing to spend more than $50 on what is essentially ink on paper (not a real ink print or litho, silk screen, etc). Sorry, I mean printed from a printer in quantity.
Why would anyone pay over a $1000 for what is in essence a poster?

I've bought prints (not print prints but poster prints) from real artists and I am willing to pay a good bit for it, but still there are limits.

 

How odd that people who scream the loudest about rights never want to back up others?

And reference material is different than copying. But I doubt that dude will ever hear that. Ears are blocked by his own screaming.

 

It's hype. Her stuff's uber-trendy. I admit I think it's beautiful, though. I'd hope her 'prints' or whatever they were are archival at least. There's definitely a market for controversial art. Remember Piss Christ?? Well I don't know if it ever sold, but it got the artist a lot of attention.

Let's hope the furor over it makes future artists a bit more careful about the integrity of their work. Mijn is obviously amazingly talented and her work has great finesse. Let's hope she learns from this and isn't destroyed by it, I really wouldn't like to see that. You'd think she'd have learned about such things (artistic integrity) in art school, but maybe not. Maybe she thought she could get away with it? It is a mystery.

The internet is no place to hide! ^_~

Raven

 

I totally agree. Mijn is doing something offensive but sinking to her level is childish. We should take the high road.

 

Ugh.. I've been off of DOA for a while (busy with college and work) and I come back to THIS. Ick.. I have absolutely no respect for this woman. While I agree that vectoring can be difficult, how hard is it really to email a few companies/photographers and ask for their permission? Bah. I really hope that at least Luts and Volks can pursue legal action against her. Same thing with Sony and Reebok since she used stolen images in those ads. *sigh*

I do art myself and I must admit I do use pictures of my own girl doll for reference, but only for poses. You can never tell that I used a specific sculpt doll for my reference, or that I even used a doll. *shakes head* This is lame.

 

I don't think there's any way that this proposed art project would come off well to observers, regardless of the intentions. I think it would really taint and dilute the original message of the whole campaign as well.

 

I love how that guy just lashed out like that without any provocation.

Whoever posted Radiotrash's website only said she MAY be a fraud, not that she WAS a fraud.

Editor my foot, if he can't even differentiate that. :/

 

I think that whoever can ought to try... I doubt anyone here could make anything remotely approaching Mijn's works in finesse and beauty. She has a real gift. But it would be a object-lesson to anyone thinking good art (however derivative) is easy.

Raven

 

Oh my...I am not sure what to think of this. I never doubt anyone's artistic abilities until I have witnessed it first hand. I know for a fact there are some wonderful artists on the board that imo are every bit as talented as Mijn, and they create their own pieces and do not trace over other's photographs. I am not saying they would want to do what others purpose (vectoring over photos of dolls) and frankly it is not my place to tell people to do it or not do it, but I think your comment belittles talented artists on this board.

 

OT/*pipes up in a small voice* Actually depending on your hair type it's actually a really heathy way to keep your hair ._. If you do it right and keep it brushed and rinsed fairly regularly, the natural oils are better than any conditioner.

I'm a bit of a hair freak which is why I know this, but it actually doesn't smell or look bad there is a interum period at about week 3 that's pretty bad, but if you rinse the dirt out its all good.

Right. Though he has no clue what he's talking about re Mijn D: That is bad DX

 

With all due respect Ravendolls, speaking as a graphic designer and illustrator with 13 years experience; if your starting point is a good photograph it's actually not that hard. It doesn't take 'talent' as much as good knowledge of the software you are using (illustrator & Photoshop).

 

Not to mention I don't think Mijn has any semblance of talent at all. I've said before that I have seen tutorials for what she does on LJ. I've seen much better digital art, too. To say she has a gift is in my opinion a gross overstatement. To me, anyway, any beauty found in her "art" is in the faces of the subjects - which are, as we know, dolls that are not her creation. No offense or anything, though.

 

Just wanted to add in here that the artists I was discussing earlier are not just random doll collectors, there are some well known and respected artists here. I am really tempted to start listing DA accounts and websites, but in I do not want to bring people into this debate that have not already put themselves here.

I just think your comment was a bit uncalled for and not very constructive to the overall debate. It is one think to say she has talent or to point out what you like about her work or what went into it, but to say that others here are not as talented or could not achieve the same level is just a bit uncalled for (please correct me if I am taking your comment wrong, I do not mean to and it is often hard to get the appropriate meanings across in type).

 

Well, I meant no disrespect to our illustrious DOA artists, but I de facto doubt *everything* until I have seen it myself.
I'm an artist too, and though I'm very critical of bjd sculpts for example, I doubt I could make anything approaching one in technical finesse. I used to create porcelain art dolls, so I know how difficult it is to at least sculpt, engineer, make molds and so forth. I am critical, but advisedly so, and I know my limitations.
A lot of people yell a lot, but have never made a thing in their lives, as I'm sure you're aware.
In any case... a negative reason to create is every bit as worthy as a positive one, imho, if the creation of something beautiful, or a lesson learned is the result.

Raven

 

Thank you for clarifying your statement. Sorry if I took a bit of offense there. I understand where you are coming from. I am not an artist, but I am in the process of creating my largest "work" ever...a thesis that will most likely be several hundred pages long. I know the hardwork that goes into creating something. Having close friends that are artists, I do know what goes into artwork and that is one of the reasons I felt a little put of by your comment. While I do agree with you on some points, others I do not. So we will just agree to disagree. ^_^

 

Do you mean negative reason as in, making Mijn-like art or do you mean negative as in her making stuff from stolen pics? Before I explode xD.

 

*hands you cookies* It will be ok I think I am going to leave this thread for awhile, I made my peace and I think that I will go have some cookies and reflect on the important things in life...like the fact that my work is referenced to high heaven and I can be proud that I give credit where credit is do and things I present as my own creations really are my own creations.

The most important thing is not what others think, but what you think and that you are at peace with your own convictions.

 

It is hard for me to find "finesse and beauty" in art that is in fact traced over other artists' work. It appears to me that Mijn's did not even bother to take her own pictures. The controversy steams from her plagiarism, not from her "art" itself. I don't believe she has a real gift for producing original art. The "gift" you seem to be referring to, is her ability to draw over someone else's photography and her subjects are already art in itself, which are original sculpts by genuinely talented doll artists.
Furthermore, to copy an artist's work is much easier than producing original works. The beauty of her art, IMO, are the subjects, whose originality should not be attributed to Mijn.

~Gus

 

A negative reason meaning... you are creating something to spite someone else's creation that you find objectionable somehow. As opposed to a positive reason to create something meaning you were randomly inspired.
But feel free to explode if you are inclined to. ^_~

I just mean she has obvious talent. If you don't see it then I don't see what any of this 55 page debate is about. Her work would not have been successful for one thing.

I don't approve of what she did, but I don't condemn her wholesale and completely negate her as an artist. I wish I had one iota of her graphic or technical talent. I don't follow this type of art much, my focus is on stuff that is entirely copyright free, meaning it's way old. I still wouldn't copy say.. a Bru or a Vermeer without crediting, though. That's just asking to be shot down for being arrogant at the very least. Did she really think nobody would notice?

I have asked myself, however... would I be so cavalier if she'd used one of my photos? My bjd work is not trendy or cute so it's probably not in danger of being lifted. I think, though... that at the very least I'd have been miffed at not being at least credited.


Raven