Ball- jointed Dolls in Arabic Countries

By "Arabic countries" I'm going to presume you mean countries where Islam is the predominant religion. Honestly, I don't think BJDs would be a big sell in any Islamic country simply because of their (however stylized) anatomical correctness. Barbie was banned in several Islamic nations because she was deemed too provocative and unsuitable for young girls, and she doesn't even have nipples on her plastic boobs.

 

Yeah but a lot of people think she's not appropriate in the west, either. But that's when she's seen as a toy for kids. BJDs aren't marketed towards kids.

However, I have no idea if people in Arabic countries buy BJDs or not, and their reasons. *A*; I would like to know if there are many dolls over there at ALL. I mean, isn't there some kind of taboo or something against depictions of people and animals? How widespread is that?

 

Emby Quinn I have bought and sold dolls to hobbiest in Arabic and predominantly Islamic countries. They were all very nice people and a few were on this board (so hopefully they will come along to chat). I am not sure if this should be in the general discussion forum or not though....but there are lots of other country, region specific threads somewhere on the boards ( I think) where people from the same regions chat ^_^

 

I live in a Islamic country - Brunei Darussalm, but I'm Chinese. There are alot of rules about 'showing skin' and stuffs, [they cant even show their hair! That's why they wear 'tudong'.] And people look at me weirdly and shake their heads when I wear short shorts *roll eyes* So I assume some of my friends[who are Islams] will be freaked/weirded out by my boys' 'junks' XD People are pretty 'close-minded' here.

 

I certainly never intended any insult to anyone from an Islamic nation. I merely believe (and I could be wrong) that the Islamic rules of modesty and morality would forbid anyone from possessing a doll with obvious sexuasl characteristics, just as it would the possession of artwork depicting nudity. You're not supposed to see naked people, basically. Not even depictions of naked people. This isn't a judgment against the beliefs of Islam--I was just answering the OP's question.

 

Well, keep in mind that not all Arabic people are Muslim and that not all Muslims are prudish, even in the Middle Eastern region! And not all Middle Eastern countries are Islamic countries, especially in the strict and completely veiled sense of the term! I would love to see more middle eastern people on the board just because I love diversity. I plan to get a doll who wears Hijab eventually and I'd love to see if anybody else has already done this. Since many of us let our own culture reflect in our dolls I figure the chances of this are slightly bigger with someone from a Middle Eastern country or someone who is Muslim but living elsewhere.

 

Emby Quinn No offense taken or meant ^_^ I was just sharing my experience and that since the people I spoke with were so nice that hopefully they come along and chat (or that maybe there was a place on the boards already to chat).

 

I must respectfully point out that "closed-minded" is not a fair or correct assumption to make in that situation. The people you have encountered clearly have a different standard of modesty than you do, but that does not make them "Close-minded". Living in a place with a different culture than you are used to will mean you will often have to accept that others do not think the way you do- That is what being open-minded means.

Back to topic, there are many countries in the world, all with people who have varying standards of modesty, and in them there are still people who find balljointed dolls nice things to own. I myself am of a religion considered very conservative, and I own a buncha dolls.

Doll ownership itself isn't likely to be dictated by one's culture or religion nearly so much as what each owner chooses to DO with their dolls is going to be affected by those things.

Using myself as example, I don't take sexual nude pictures of my dolls because of moral and religious decisions. Someone else of a different belief may find that sort of thing lots of fun and have no issues with it whatsoever.

 

In my experience some people, no matter which religion, can be quite closed-minded in the sense that they will not respect people who have different views. I was born in the Dutch Bible Belt and I have had a couple of unsettling experiences. People walking to church on sunday will actually block the road on purpose when you're driving your car. Hanging out your laundry or washing the car on sundays is frowned upon and the hard core ones won't be "neighbourly" to people of different or no religion.
A good example is from an autobiographical novel of a well known Dutch author in which is a scene where his mother is dieing and some elderlies from a concervative church are coming by to talk and have a prayer for her soul. While praying, one of them takes a cookie, (because that won't really matter since his host is a heretic) and both men get kicked out by the main character.
These things happen, sadly. But respect still has to come from at least one "side" first.
I think it would be great to see more dolls who are actually dressed according to various cultures of this world. Now it's mostly popular subcultures like gothic, lolita and so on. I love to see fantasy dolls and such but country- and religious culture is great too

 

This is horribly off topic but I think this thread will be closed.

There is a Barbie alternative particularly in Saudi Arabia...she is a Barbie like doll named Fulla. I know this because I saw it on the news and then did research becasue I'd like to have a Muslimah Plantedoll Mini. This doll wears modest clothing (no shorts, no short sleeves) and has a hijab and an abayah for when she goes out.

Every culture has a different belief and even beliefs in that culture vary among its members. I have these dolls but I myself don't wear short shorts or tank tops or skirts above the knee. I don't put my dolls in skimpy outfits although I don't put them to my expression of modesty. I don't participate in sexy photostories or anything but that's MY CHOICE. I'm not going to mind if anyone else does it but I'm not about to go look at the photostory

One awesome thing about DoA is that we get to learn about each other and about where we all come from...while sharing our common love of BJDS.

Peace.

 

Yeah but most BJDs are sold with clothes that fit modern Asian/western subcultures like TMar said. And if you don't like those clothes, well, that's when you order the doll naked. :B You have to buy the doll first before you can dress it modestly, (and be able to research and learn something about them before you buy it) and you can hardly go on the company sites without seeing the nude body, because THAT'S what they're selling, that's the doll. The look and mechanics of the body is a major selling point. They're just intrinsically not suited for the Muslim market. Someone in an Arabic country (not necessarily Muslim, but surrounded by an overall modest culture) who would otherwise like BJDs might be put off before they even learn about the doll because of the initial presentation. (Like how some people are put off of anime because they think it's all porn.)

Of course there will be underground cultures who still buy them, like with any good product, but I can't imagine it's very big over there. Not as big as it's gotten in the English-speaking world. (Which is still not very big.) As you can see.. no people from Arabic countries seem to have posted in this thread yet. XD; There can't be many here.

Oh pfff, you could say the same thing about the deep south. Racism isn't closed-minded, it's just part of their culture! Yes, different cultures should be examined with respect, but equally you should practice discrimination between what's neutral cultural practice and what's just a bad idea. (Not that modesty is bad, but a lot of Muslim modesty comes from negative and harmful ideas.)

 

Ah, but see, who gets to decide what is a negative or harmful idea? Muslim modesty tends to be founded in the Abrahamic idea that a woman's beauty is sacred and belongs only to her and her wedded husband. Is this negative or harmful? Some people will agree, some will disagree. However, that's a debate topic best kept to other forums of discussion.

How "negatively" a nude BJD is going to be perceived will depend on a person-to-person basis of decision. My own conservative religion doesn't look too eagerly on revealing clothing or nudity, so my dolls have generally modest clothes, but I still own BJD. I don't doubt that there are plenty of people of similarly conservative beliefs who still own BJDs and are not put off by their realism.

 

Yeah but you live in the west. You live in CALIFORNIA. You don't live in a world where you never see a woman with her hair uncovered out of doors. Just like a lot of westerners don't see cartoons where the characters' boobs bounce all over the place all the time. The negative perception doesn't come just from a person's opinion about boobs or hair and if they're offended by them personally, it comes from the what they're conditioned to expect to see in their environment. If you see something way more risqué than you're used to seeing, it's easy to assume that it's meant to be pornographic by the people who made it. (I mean, even people over here can think BJDs are meant to be "sex dolls" because they have genitalia and Barbie does not, and they can be put off by the perceived purpose of the dolls. They've been conditioned to see no-genitalia as the default state of a doll.)

"Ah, but see, who gets to decide what is a negative or harmful idea?"
We do. All of us. You and me. We can openly say our opinions about their beliefs and they can do the same about ours. That's how progress happens. (Because eventually an idea will win. And if that idea turns out to be bad or gets out of balance, someone will question in again soon.) And that's what I'm doing.

 

This is getting really OT and more Debate than General Discussion, guys.

 

Can we move it then? I don't think it's too OT... it's a discussion about how dolls fit into cultures, isn't it?
(Sometimes I think the debate forum is dying because you can't have an accurate debate without covering many related topics, and they all get closed for being OT when they start to do that..)

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe where I live is relevant to this discussion. I have traveled extensively to many places, I have studied and seen many cultures.

I believe people have free will to choose what they perceive as negative, and are not merely mindless products of their environment.
If we each get to decide what is a negative or harmful idea, I'm sure people in Muslim cultured countries will do the same, and choose personally whether they want to own a BJD and how they will dress it.

I'd really like to hear more from the original poster on some clarification of her/his question, I'd like to know more about their ideas.

I also would like to see more responses in this thread from people who live surrounded by or as part of the Muslim religion or Middle Eastern cultures.

 

I agree, people are not just products of their environment, but you look to your environment to give you perspective on new things, and if something doesn't fit the patterns in your environment, you're probably going to misunderstand it until you learn more about it.

 

RANDOM: that doll has a very cute face actually :3

 

Some people may follow that pattern but it's not rational to assume everyone does. I haven't relied much on my environment for perspective in many years. Many BJD owners don't seem to care what people around them think, as the general public is often leery of strange dolls, by and large.