Bartering for lower prices - a no-no?

Every doll purchase is different for many factors, not the least of which is the reason the doll is on sale, how the owner regards the hobby and the nature of the particular doll.

However, it's a misnomer that our dolls don't depreciate. Everything depreciates. Everything--even BJD's. We tend to think that because Burmman's still fetch premium price and because the resale of Soom monthly is a hiked market that the dolls don't depreciate with time. But that isn't so. Such circumstances may very well be a time sensitive thing because the market behaviors are built upon an instant gratification paradigm, rather than the reality of whether the doll is still in the condition it was when new. And it does not, as yet, take into consideration how the dolls will age. Dolls get worn, they yellow without a lot of predictability, people mod them with varying degrees of success, their faceups are temporary at best and certain models--after a while--lose resale value as newer, more mechanically sound versions arise from companies, even inflation. These are all forms of depreciation. And when the hobby has been around longer and we have a better understanding of the long term behaviors of resins then we will see even more of an impact of depreciation in literal application. Right now it's rather subjective, but still present. I have bought several of my dolls below their original cost--in mint condition.

So by all means, I believe whole heartedly in bartering when I see a doll for sale. Heck, I barter even when the poster says they won't negotiate the price. Car salesmen say the same thing.

Nothing used is non-negotiable.

 

Personally I'd find that a bit rude... after all, the situation of a car salesmen and a hobbyist are quite different! Any kind of retail business needs to sell product to stay in business, and since they generally get their stock at a significantly lower cost than the retail price, they have a sometimes very large profit margin to play with.

A hobbyist on the other hand... some are desperate to sell, to pay off some other bill or buy a new limited or what have you. Some are just selling a doll because they no longer like it as much, want to weed out their collection, bought it as an investment (in the case of limiteds), or didn't bond. They don't always *have* to make the sale if it doesn't meet their terms.

I don't think there's anything wrong with politely asking sellers who don't specify one way or the other if they'll accept a lower offer. But if they specifically say their price is firm? To me that's about as rude as PMing someone asking them if they'll sell you a doll they have never posted about selling (you could be lucky and they were thinking of selling anyway... or it could be their favourite doll that they would never sell and think of as a child or best friend- it's why that's not allowed by the rules here). It's their stuff, they can determine what they want to do with it and how they sell it. If they're too strict and it doesn't sell well it's too bad for them and they'll either keep it or change their sales terms... but if someone has said they won't take offers then they've said it because they don't want to deal with offers.

 

I see haggling purely as a personality thing. Some people like to haggle, some people don't. I am one of the people who doesn't like it. If someone offered me a price lower than what I was asking, or asked for discounts on shipping or freebies, whatever- I wouldn't accept it. I also would not offer a lower price to anyone who did not specifically say they were taking offers. At the same time, if I were in a city or country where haggling was expected, I would make an attempt to do it, despite feeling really uncomfortable

Basically, I think people should just be respectful when haggling. That means NOT haggling with people who specifically say they will not negotiate the price. :/ That's just plain rude.

There's a reason car salesmen are stereotypically unpopular.

 

If someone specifically states that they don't want bartering, then this is a huge no of course.

However, I don't think it's an issue to offer a reasonable price, meaning something that is close, but maybe not quite as much as the asking price. Also, if someone is trying to bargain, it's a huge plus to be able to offer the money in full upfront, especially if someone needs the money quickly.

 

I think it's fine to offer a lower price as long as you're polite and it doesn't say "FIRM" in the listing. I've also asked if the seller would throw in free domestic shipping on some items before as an incentive. I feel it can't hurt to make an offer that they can always fall back on if they really need money and their item hasn't sold in weeks, but I'm never pushy about it. If I'm ignored or get a "no", I accept it and move on... or sometimes I get a counter-offer and we go from there.

If a doll isn't a limited, isn't in new condition, or if it is still available to buy new, I will not pay more than 2/3rd of the new value. If it is damaged or needs work, the amount I'm willing to pay goes down further. I research before making any offers: What would the doll cost me new? How many are up in the marketplace? Is there a newer version out with improvements?

What irks me as a buyer, is that a lot of times I'll see people asking more than what I could get the doll for brand new because of the face-up, wig, eyes, clothes that THEY picked out... I most likely have a totally different vision. I've also gotten wigs and eyes included with a doll before that don't even fit... I'm not going to pay extra for a seller's cast-offs that they're just using to pad the price.

Also, to me, personal aesthetic modifications such as permanent piercings, scars, or burns lowers the value whereas to the seller, who has a personal attachment or investment, it raises the value.

I DO THINK THAT SELLERS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO PRICE ITEMS HOW THEY WANT! However, they need to remember that not everyone will place the same value on their items and they should respond with courtesy if the offer is courteously sent. You never know what doors it could open. Try not to take offense with the offer itself, though its fine to be offended if the manner it was presented was rude.

I think to maximize sales, sellers can do some of the following:

1) If you have a lot of extra clothing/shoes/wigs, list them separately so that you can keep the price of the doll down. This will put it in a lot more people's price range and generate more interest.
2) If you have a single outfit/wig/pair of eyes with a doll, offer a "full-set" and "doll-only" price. If the "full-set" isn't default, try to list the brands and prices of the individual items so people know where the price you're asking came from. You shouldn't expect to be able to tack on $25 to your price if you're just including a cheap pair of $5 acrylic eyes.
3) Hold on to the original box/papers/etc. Some people like to have these things.
4) Do not rape on shipping!
5) RESEARCH! Check out the manufacturer's website to see what the doll you're selling currently goes for, or if they have upgraded the body/headcap since you bought it. If they're running a sale or "gift" promotion, you might want to wait until it's over before listing your doll, or else price it accordingly.
6) Do not feel it's mandatory that the buyer reimburse you for the $30-50 it cost you to have it shipped from Asia when it was brand new.
7) Search the DoA marketplace for other sales of the same doll and compare prices.
8) Offer a layaway price that is a bit higher than an outright purchase price, but gives the buyer more time to come up with all the money.
9) If you're charging PayPal fees, roll it into the price so the buyer doesn't have to do extra work calculating them.
10) Post lots of pictures from Day 1 of your listing. If people have to keep checking back to see if they're up, they may become interested in another doll in the meantime.

 

I've bartered before and I've been bartered with. As long as it's done maturely then everyone can benefit - the buyer gets a lower price and the seller gets to finally sell the doll. I also agree with Armeleia that people need to do their research before they make offers so it's not insultingly low.

 

Thank you! I encounter this a lot in the Marketplace. Now if you've just got one doll and you want to get out of the hobby and not spend a lot of time fooling around with individual sales of the component parts, that's one thing. But jacking up the price because of a bunch of stuff you threw in there that you want to get rid of is another. And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to recoup you the $100.00-$150.00 you paid for a big name face-up, particularly if it's over a year old, which I see all the time. I'll just end up wiping it eventually and doing what I want.

I'm not normally a very forward individual, but I have made polite offers twice on the Marketplace and in both instances the seller came back with a counter-offer we could both live with. But I don't do that if they say the price is firm-I just walk away. And I don't offer on damaged/modded dolls that are priced well above new price-I don't think those sellers are grounded enough in reality that any sort of dialogue is possible.

 

no harm asking, but dun be too ridiculous and trying getting a bermann for 1k...

 

I don't like the bargaining idea at all...
unless that's part of the culture or the seller stated they accept different offers...
I am selling stuffs in market place too, and got some PMs asking for a huge discount!
I have my own costs (i.e. the original cost of the item, the packaging and the paypal fees), I just think it's rude to bargain and offer really low prices...
I don't ask people to offer me that and I hope people don't ask me to offer that too it just happens and I have to state that I don't accept bargaining in my selling threads!

Though I'm fine with offering little discounts... but not the unreasonable ones!!

 

I can really relate to what SailorLimaBean is saying here. Relatively new to the marketplace, I have found several dolls there that I have interest in. All the listings seem to have the "firm + Shipping" quote in them. While I was primarily looking for myself, of course I ended buying one for Des, at the price listed, but still received a break on the shipping at the sellers offer, which I gladly accepted. Now the next one I buy will be for myself! I have been doing comparisons on the cost of the dolls I am interested in new verses marketplace. Upon reflection, i suppose that if a listing does have "firm" in it, and I just cant justify the initial advertised price, I could alway PM them to please let me know if they ever lower the price as I am interested in their doll. I think that would be a considerate way of letting them know that I am seriously interested.

Robert

 

Depends. If it's done in a reasonable and polite manner, and the person does not state "firm", then by all means go ahead. (I once had to "barter" with a lovely lady who was buying my doll who actually kept insisting on paying MORE than what I was asking to cover paypal fees, and would not take no for an answer. We ended up meeting in the middle and splitting the cost in two. So I, as a seller, ended up having to argue a lower price. True story, by the way).

But I absolutely DO NOT accept any kind of rude offers. When I was selling three dolls, I would keep getting messages from people who are like "Lower it for ME" "include the shipping for ME". And it's like, I don't know you, why would I want to lower the price for YOU? I'm glad you like yourself, but I don't care. That kind of talk is reserved for someone you actually know, not a stranger on the internet.

Also, good, high-quality modifications and face-ups do in fact raise the price in my eyes, regardless of the availability of a naked, basic doll. If you're not intending to keep the face-up, then buy a blank doll. I had someone message me for one of my dolls on sale and rudely demand a price break because they were going to "wipe the face-up" - never mind the fact that the doll was limited, never taken out of the box, already priced below the cost of a standard BASIC doll from the same company and I got the face-up for free, which is a saving I wanted to pass on to the buyer (and the eventual buyer did love the face-up). Quite frankly, I was actually fully willing to take offers on that doll because I wanted to sell him, but the other individual's rudeness turned me off dealing with them (if they're this pushy and entitled now, how reasonable would they be should something go pear-shaped?). So I declined the offer, and ended up dealing with an absolutely lovely person a few weeks later instead. Additionally, not so long ago I also sold a KDF Bory, a standard doll available from Luts, for $125 over his new price because he had an extra pair of hands and a face-up by Poppy (which runs $150+). Within 48 hours of listing him up I received several trade offers and two people letting me know that they were trying to gather funds for him. There was one person who politely messaged me asking if I could lower the price, but once she saw the quality of Poppy's work she messaged me back to let me know she understood the price, and said it was worth every penny I was asking. He sold within 4 days of my listing him up on the marketplace. If you don't appreciate the quality of the work, by all means just pass the listing over (unless, of course, the price is wayyy up, well over the cost of the new doll and the custom modification price). Trust me, people WANT the dolls with the big name face-ups or modifications, and WILL pay the according price, because just like the dolls themselves, it's a work of art, and it comes with a price tag.

As for myself, I feel very uncomfortable asking any kind of lower price. I know the vast majority of sellers don't just pull a price from a hat and roll with it, there's usually some kind of justification behind it, and I don't want to trivialize it by offering a lower price unless I think that there's a valid reason (i.e. someone trying to sell the doll for a raised price because of "face-up and body blushing", and then state that both have scuffs and scratches. It would HAVE to be removed/replaced then, upon arrival to the buyer, so it's not a fair price because the buyer doesn't really have the option of enjoying the extra stuff they are being asked to pay for)

 

I think there are plenty of times offering a lower price might be acceptable. If you are offering to pay outright (no layaway) offer a lower price. Many times if a seller gets the opprotunity for upfront cash they wont mind taking a lower price. If a doll is damaged or the seller is the second or thrid owner of a doll, a lower price is not unreasonable as the dolls do get damaged with time. So long as you are not rude it is fine to barter. The seller always has the option of refusing your payment in which case you can offer a higher price.

 

Bartering is done in SOME markets, in SOME parts of the world. Not in all. Before assuming that all sellers in the DoA Marketplace are open to haggling, please read this thread.

 

Although I haven't been on the MP here, I don't think it's rude to offer.
I have bartered for some dolls on FB because I thought they were too expensive. Both people accepted my offers

As long as you feel it's a fair offer I say make it! If you think you'd be ripping someone off and don't feel comfortable with the price then just save up and offer what you think it's worth.

 

I don't really like bartering since I feel like the person already has a set price and everything... I haven't been in this marketplace, but the most I've really done when buying anime/manga merch is ask sellers if it would be fine to knock $5 off to make it an even number. And I usually only do this when they say that item prices are open for discussion.

My mom tells me I should try haggling more when I am buying from the used market, but I just don't really like doing it above that. ^^'

 

I'm too bad at this, all I ever managed to do was asking for a layaway. But as I wanted the doll so much, I was afraid if I'd ask for a cheaper price, I'd come across as too annoying to deal with. The layaway worked out just fine. If it's the other way around and I was the seller, I'd try my best to stay firm (no guarantee I wouldn't reconsider though^^).

 

Personally, I think that many people trying to sell their second hand dolls, have too high hopes. Now, I'm not talking about limiteds, they're in a class of their own, but a standard sculpt from a standard company...? There seems to be some sort of idea that when you buy a doll, you can sell it for its original price + the shipping from the company to the (first) owner + any customs the owner had to pay. For me, if that's the case, I might as well buy the doll directly from the company, because I don't want to be paying for someone else's shipping and customs, adding the shipping and customs to me again from the seller. Liek, wat? In that case I might as well order directly from the company and only pay my own shipping and customs (AND get a spanking new doll that's never been touched or outside the box until it arrives at my place = pure euphoria ). Would anyone try to sell the doll for a higher price than its company value, I would try to do some bartering, by the offchance that the seller can lower the price to let me get it somewhat cheaper. For in any case, the doll companies are more trustworthy than any second hand seller, and if a package got lost your chances of getting the money back from a company is greater than buying from a person. And if it has broken parts or anything like the sort, you can take it up with the company directly. I also look into how long the doll's been on the market, if it's been there for a while, the seller might be more prone to discuss the price, than if it's newly put there.

With that being said, I do respect when sellers ask not to be fronted with offers - they've made up their mind and if the price is too high for my taste, I just have to keep on looking. I have only sold one doll during my time in the hobby, and I put that one up for sale for almost half the price from the company, seeing how it was a bit old (like two-three years?) and the box had some damage after being damp (from its previous owner, the doll was unharmed though and I'd cleaned it, restrung it and even given it a new face up from its damaged, old one). Even though it was only 50% of the price from the company, I still got questions if I could sell it for a lower price or even put it on layaway (this is a sculpt originally worth $240). I hadn't put any note saying it was a firm price, but in this case, having the price being only half of the original, I thought it would be obvious I wouldn't go any lower. This is also something I like to consider when I barter for lower prices with sellers - if the price is already low, I don't push the boundaries. I don't get greedy. Some people don't take discussions well and even though if people are desperate to get a doll sold, I don't kick on those who's already laying down and I don't use their desperation for my own greed's sake. Just be kind. And I try to approach and treat other as I want to be approached or treated. There's so much frustration and bad feelings in this hobby as it is, I think

 

A lot of it depends on if the seller actually accepts offers, some clearly states that they don't and asking them would be a bit rude cause it means you didn't read it.

That said, I tried it once. I asked one seller to take off 45$ from the listed cost (a doll body, so the full price is much higher), explaining that I'd probably need to pay the difference in customs fees. I thought it was a reasonable offer but the seller didn't accept.
Of course you can't pretent to have the price halved.

 

I've sold and bought dolls via the second hand market, and I'm usually happy to take and make offers on dolls. For me, selling my dolls is really stressful, and if someone makes a good offer on one of my sales, then that's one less thing I have to worry about selling. If someone on DoA says their item is "negotiable", or they say in their thread to make offers, then I generally will. If they say their price is "firm", then I won't make an offer, but if I think the price is too high, I won't really consider buying it. I've never been rude (at least not knowingly), nor has anyone been rude to me while going through this process, so I guess that's why I'm still so open to it. But if I got 20+ PMs a day demanding something I was selling for 50% off or more, I can see how that would get old fast!

 

If you don't already know how to haggle tactfully, don't start with this. In order to approach haggling in the doll community without coming across as thieving or trying to get something for nothing, you really need to know a lot about the doll in question, the person selling it, history of that doll with or before that owner, the condition of the doll and what could be considered 'damage' versus 'age/enhancement', etc.. And naturally, if you like the doll enough to want to be it's next owner, that should come across first and foremost! You're looking to add that doll to your family, not trying to make a quick deal at a thrift store.

That being said, you can go with the "it doesn't hurt to ask" option, but keep in mind that.. it can hurt. Whether or not you experience the pain of that hurt is a coin flip chance, but to assume that trying to haggle is always harmless is a rather oblivious assumption. Just don't be flippant about haggling. People invest a lot, monetarily and emotionally, in this hobby. If stepping on someone's heart isn't on your to-do list, be mindful of how you ask for discounts.

And remember, if the price is "firm", it is never appropriate to haggle. The only thing you can ask about when a price is "firm" is the shipping options and cost, because they are often added on to the total.

(A little note to sellers, that isn't often brought up because it can be perceived as rude: If you get 20+ PMs from people interested in your doll or accessories, but at a much lower cost than you're asking, you may want to take the hint! It is possible that your personal attachment or investment has affected your pricing judgement- Check the marketplace for dolls/items identical and comparable to your own for a reality check!)