1. It has come to the attention of forum staff that Dollshe Craft has ceased communications with dealers and customers, has failed to provide promised refunds for the excessive waits, and now has wait times surpassing 5 years in some cases. Forum staff are also concerned as there are claims being put forth that Dollshe plans to close down their doll making company. Due to the instability of the company, the lack of communication, the lack of promised refunds, and the wait times now surpassing 5 years, we strongly urge members to research the current state of this company very carefully and thoroughly before deciding to place an order. For more information please see the Dollshe waiting room. Do not assume this cannot happen to you or that your order will be different.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dollshe Craft and all dolls created by Dollshe, including any dolls created under his new or future companies, including Club Coco BJD are now banned from Den of Angels. Dollshe and the sculptor may not advertise his products on this forum. Sales may not be discussed, no news threads may be posted regarding new releases. This ban does not impact any dolls by Dollshe ordered by November 8, 2023. Any dolls ordered after November 8, 2023, regardless of the date the sculpt was released, are banned from this forum as are any dolls released under his new or future companies including but not limited to Club Coco BJD. This ban does not apply to other company dolls cast by Dollshe as part of a casting agreement between him and the actual sculpt or company and those dolls may still be discussed on the forum. Please come to Ask the Moderators if you have any questions.
    Dismiss Notice

Basing your doll on other cultures. Okay or not?

May 1, 2014

    1. Hahaha, she forgave us. We had a lot of fun like that.
      Your location in Sweden.. heh, when I visited there my friend dared me to try Pucko. I don't know why that was supposed to be a scary dare. It's a lot less frightening a drink than our YooHoo (I mean, just look at the ingredients lists!)
      I had a lot of interest in Sweden and was planning to move there for a while (it fell through, tragically..) but still occasionally wonder what their opinions on foreigners expressing favor for their culture are. I mean like.. Lucia outfit would be fun to put a doll into, but of course over here people would be quick to cry about me dressing a doll as a hate group because they haven't looked carefully enough.
      It's like.. it would *only* be understood by the culture that's not my own in that case! :pout:
       
    2. Sweden has a long (and I mean LONG) history of cherry picking things from other cultures and incorporate them into our own. Anything from crafting techniques to music, fashion and food. So, while there will always be those who are extra sensitive, on a whole I think you would have to try pretty hard to offend someone simply by dressing a doll up or give it other characteristics from our culture.
      As for the “vikings” no one can really claim to portrait them correctly. There is just too little left of them to go on. And they lived so long ago. Modern interpretations of clothes are based on a few rare garments (all for men), a handful of tiny textile fragments and on the highly stylized art from the period. Most of the stories were written down after the viking era was over. And our understanding of their culture is based on archeological finds and foreign “eye witness reports”, sometimes victims of viking raids and as such obviously not much help when you want to know about everyday life at home. To complicate matters further, vikings travelled a lot and some of those finds are imported. (Did you know there is a bronze Buddah statue dated to the sixth or seventh century found in Helgö?) All we can do is make different levels of educated guesses and interpretations.
      Sure, the horned helmets and fur boots are mostly products of nineteenth century romanticism, but is isn’t really offensive. It just is plain inaccurate, no more, no less. And it’s not like most Swedish people today are experts. Some of the worst interpretations I have seen have been done by Swedish people.

      As for Lucia, to be honest I don’t even think most Swedish people are aware that it is not usually celebrated in other countries nor of its roots. And it is a quite random saint to celebrate. Especially considering most of Sweden’s christians do not typically celebrate saints individually at all. It is even possible that the name of the celebration is something of a coincidence that stuck and gained popularity. It is another good example of how readily people here incorporate foreign elements into our own traditions.
      (Cake-candles are a good size for a msd-sized Lucia crown, if you want to give it a try. For large dolls christmas tree candles might be better. I remember a girl on a Swedish doll forum doing a photo shoot like that some years ago.)

      So for those things, id’s say: Have fun with it!

      For minority cultures, such as the Sami, it would probably be wise to approach it with a lighter step, though. They have suffered from attempts at forcefully integrate them with mainstream society, like so many other smaller cultures around the world and it is very hard to know, as an outsider, how many of those wounds are still open.
       
      • x 1
    3. Most important, it is your doll, you do what you like with it. Slap a fuzzy purple wig on it and run around the park singing the 'Barney Dinosaur' song if you like. Of course, though... if you want to interact with others in a community of doll enthusiasts, and keep from offending someone, you should learn about that culture and be respectful. I think it would be a wonderful opportunity to explore other cultures, people, ideas, and learn through the doll. You have stumbled on an excellent idea and I wish you the best in your journey.
       
    4. I don't see an issue with it as long as it's done with respect. If I were to ever do this, I would mentally prepare myself because people may critique another my interpretation. I would be open to feedback and be willing to make changes. But personally, I don't mind seeing interpretations of my culture or religion. I think most doll owners are considerate and do research before taking this route.
       
    5. This is not so much due to the fact that Vikings traveled a lot and more due to the fact that cultures weren't as isolated as we like to imagine. The Kelts used materials for their art imported from India, for instance. Hellgö's Buddha wasn't an stand-alone thing. And if you look at art history, you can see that art from around the European/Asian world was influenced by each other. There's an Indian Buddha head that is clearly influenced by the Greeks and in return you can see several European cultures using designs of animals unfamiliar to them, but with clear Hindu or even Chinese styles.

      The Scythians in Russia traded with Greek and adopted Hellenic, Chinese and Indian elements. And there were even Greek craftsmen creating Scythian objects for them in their own style, just as there were craftsmen from many other parts of the world, doing the same for other cultures.

      Of course, compared to today, these cultures were much more isolated, but that doesn't mean that they didn't know about and learned about each other.
       
    6. Lilith thanks for the response and ideas!
      My doll's a bit too small for those sorts of candles. But those are nice ideas for maybe one of my future/someday dolls.
      As an outsider, my guess as to the importance of Lucia over there is because of the long hours of darkness. Upon close examination from where you stand, she may seem like a random Saint to make a big day for, but I guess from this far away it appears to make perfect sense. ^^;

      Bringing up Sami culture, that's indeed true, and to be honest I had a phase back in 2011 or '12 where I was totally enamored with their primary-colored dresses, intricately woven materials, and lives with reindeer for livelihood as well as fun (I so wish such things were part of my world, though I know that's silly...) Although I read that parts of Disney's Frozen's environment and costume design were based on Lapland and Sami designs and was fairly well-received by the Sami people. I guess I dropped the interest because I knew I am an outsider so it's not my place to ever try to join in or celebrate the beauty of a lifestyle and history that's not mine.

      On that note, it's a bit strange to feel that way.
      Sometimes it's a bummer to be American, because our history is full of just one war after another, and have no interest nor feel any connection to that sort of "tradition." Other than old-west or pioneer outfits, there's not a lot of historic costume that's uniquely ours. It leaves us in kind of a tough place where one is left to embrace what we are, or reach for another - perhaps seemingly random - culture that one feels they can actually relate to.
       
    7. It's not strange to want to be part of another culture, that sounds like the making of an anthropologist. If you are drawn to the Sami culture why not study and learn about it? Why not enjoy it and share that joy with other people? There aren't any celebration police to tell you, especially in America, you can't share another culture's celebration. How many of us are all that Irish or Mexican yet we celebrate St Patricks Day and Cinco de Mayo, not that authentically but we still do. How many of us celebrate a form of Hina Matsuri with our dolls?
       
    8. Exactly. That's my point.

      Well, to have a celebration to light in the middle of the winter makes perfects sense and there are some parts of the modern lucia traditions that have roots that may well be pre-chistisan (like most of our celebrations seem to have if you dig deep enough). What is odd to me is what the saint herself has got to do with it. Not that I mind, I find it very interesting and slightly amusing.
      But then again, I am not a christian, so I might me missing something.