BJD or Fashion Doll

When I bought my first BJD it was intended to be a 'fashion doll' of sorts. I wanted to dress her up and model clothes, but I preferred the proportions and overall look of BJDs to the Fashion Dolls. Fashion Dolls to me are more like expensive Barbies. I don't mean to sound rude to people who have and love Fashion Dolls. I actually feel the same way about the little plastic Dollfies. They just don't LOOK that much different. There are slight differences in the heads, but not like the way there is in BJDs. I don't dislike or disapprove of Fashion Dolls, but I don't want one. I used to look at them and consider getting one to model clothes, but I never liked one enough. I'm much more attached to BJDs as characters than to the Fashion Dolls which are more of just collectibles to me. You get one make it pretty and put it on a shelf. I would never take a Fashion Doll out shopping or to a movie or even just sit and watch TV with one, but I do with my MSD.

 

i think that bjd make much more of a better fashion doll then the actual fashion doll, becuase they have more of realistic figur then to the fashion doll. i think those fashion doll are like a small porportion of the actual models. like the model in runway or something like that....they're are so unrealistic.

 

when people say 'fashion doll' i think of Barbie. i never liked Barbie as a kid and i still don't like her now. and don't even get me started on Bratz; they are just disgusting and i think they send out the wrong impression to young children who buy them. at least Barbie was a career woman and not a noseless tart looking for money and fame without having any talent.

i apologise if that sounded a bit aggressive. i don't want to offend anyone with my words, i just have a strong opinion about the media.

 

Ugh I don't like the Bratz dolls either. One summer I worked with a bunch of preteen girls and they were crazy about those little dolly tramps

But I've always admired Barbies and their cheap dollar-store knockoffs. It's just fun to dress up a doll in clothing you probably wouldn't wear yourself, or as a cheaper way to cosplay ^_^ All my Barbies had names, personalities and stories just like my BJDs now. So I have naturally applied this to my BJDs... I got them because I was tired of how hard Barbies were to make/find good stuff for due to the tiny size and I love how many face/body options there are as opposed to the "perfect supermodel" that is Barbie and her friends.

There is a community of people who customize Barbies to the extent that we customize BJDs. I tried to get into it by getting rid of one of my Barbies' "face-up", but I think it's way harder than a BJD face-up!! So the good thing about Barbie is that she comes as a full set, but that doesn't mean she isn't customizable.

 

dolly tramps LOL i just can't stand the adverts for them.

i never knew Barbies were customisable

 

You are totally right about bratz >.>;; I can't stand them with there mouths taking up half their head practically -_-; Anyway, I prefer BJDs any day, and I have never really taking a liking to barbie when I was little (or now.) I always thought that she'd snap if I played with her too much, she was that thin

 

it's funny you should say that actually (this is a bit OT but it's amusing anyway) but i used to have a barbie whom i could bend her legs forward at the knee. her toes could almost touch her hips, she was very flexible

 

"fashion doll" makes me think of pullip, blythe, and momoko actually because they are more "fashionable" to me than barbie will ever be. Barbie is hardly fashionable to me because she seems more trashy and cheap.

Fashion Doll makes me think more high quality and artistic, so I would be fine with BJDs being called fashion dolls under those terms. Baby the Stars Shine Bright, and h.Natao both make clothes for BJDs, so there is obviously a related interest in fashion.

 

Well I know that I'm just a newbie to the whole BJD world (don't even have a doll yet), however from my point of view I would say that a BJD is very, very different from a fashion doll. Fashion dolls are made for profit and really don't have any love put into them upon creation. Where as a bjd's, being so intricately sculpted and produced in smaller numbers, seems far more special.

And I, too, like the more realistic looking dolls. Not too real, but maybe in the style of Square-Enix cg animation?

And I know that I, personally, would like to see more wider available dolls for a lower price, but then I, too, like the idea of these dolls not being mainstream. If I found pre-packaged dolls at Target I would probably not want anything to do with them.

 

I was about to offer an opinion as a collector of both ABJDs and "fashion dolls" when I suddenly realized I can't. Because I never was really a "collector". I buy the FDs I like and can afford and now that I have a bit more money and fell in love with them I buy the ABJDs I like and can afford.

Maybe that is the real difference between ABJDs and FDs. FDs are MARKETED towards collectors (altho not all buyers of FDs are collectors) Often the goal is to acquire every doll in a given series ie Dolls of the World (Barbie) or Voyages (Fashion Royalty) or every doll produced as an exclusive, ie for FAO Schwartz. There are major attempts made by the producing companies to promote brand loyalty and (as has already been mentioned) everything is mass produced even if only a small number of a given doll is made. And generally speaking, especially with the smaller FDs, if you want a new outfit you have to buy a new doll.

I'm not sure how ABJD "limiteds" fit in, because they seem to contradict the expectation that the buyer will play with and change the doll.

In the ABJD community the expectation is you will only buy what you like and I have not seen any attempt by the doll companies to create a completist mentallity in the buyer. It is expected that you will play with and change your doll--what, buy another doll just because you want her to be a redhead this week?--not gonna happen in the BJD community.

I know there are asthetic differences that distinguish the Asian BJD from other BJDs but I'm new at this so I'm not entirely sure of what they are. One thing I really notice is the eyes---thats what pulled me into ABJDs, the eyes--and the idea that you can change them (as soon as I get up the nerve that is) The eyes are also what is pulling me more towards the fantasy end of the hobby even tho I have no experience with anime or magna. I just love the eyes (as long as the lips aren't too small) And they are giving me the desire to make fantasy clothing and realistic clothing which is confusing--why do I want to do both?

Also the ABJDs can pose and still look good. FDs with more posability are being made but they seem to look very awkward to me. Maybe thats where some of the crossover is coming from, people wanting both posability and good looks.

I know they make more than one of each facemold with ABJDs but they still seem more individual too. Oh, and some FDs are just as expensive as ABJDs, have you seen Cissy?

 

A lot of people still make at least some changes to LEs --changing the wig, eyes, and clothes don't permanently alter the doll, and some buy LEs just for the dolls and sell the outfits. While some people like to keep fullsets complete, LEs aren't necessarily treated a whole lot differently than other dolls.

 

To me the difference is in the dolls eyes. BJDs have souls in their eyes and the look alive.

 

I like this debate topic as I have been thinking about this myself.

I admit to having a harder time distinguishing between the two nowadays because I've seen more and more fashion dolls appear on the market that seem to lean towards the BJD factor and even have ball joints and so to help me organize my thoughts and since I was first exposed to fashion dolls, the question I ask myself is 'What makes a BJD doll a BJD doll and what sets it apart from fashion dolls'.

In the beginning when I was first exposed to BJDs and then the more BJD-centric 'fashion dolls', I would say that at the time, the biggest/main distinguishing factor between fashion dolls and BJDs was - aside from the jointedness of BJDs - the customizability factor and the 'toy versus work of art' factor.

Fashion dolls in the toy stores were clearly marked as such and they came prepainted and mass produced and with every exaggerated model-esq features with limited mobility and the whole purpose was to dress them up in fashionable clothing and play things like 'Pizza Parlor' or 'Hair Dresser' or something. The customizability factor was pretty much limited to the change of clothing unless you knew how to undo the doll's faceup, which wasn't something that children - to whom the dolls were geared towards - would readily know how to do or perhaps really think of doing.

For BJDs, the fact that you can buy them with blank faces and buy spare parts for them speaks of the fact that they're meant to be customized, offering the dolls an individuality that isn't so readily seen or made available with dolls like Barbie or Tonner.

In short, fashion dolls' looks were more set in stone and the look of the BJD doll is up to the owner and the owner's imagination.

In terms of artistic merit, I wouldn't be as likely to classify a fashion doll as a work of art. The reason for this is the fact that fashion dolls were mass produced with the same exact look and feel and limited mobility/posability and tagged with a price that was in the 'toy' range and not in the 'collectible' range. I will append my statement with the acknowledgement that there have been LE Barbies and such with beautiful outfits and special faceups and accessories and sometimes even different head sculpts that have cost more and were aimed at the collectors and possibly could well be considered 'works of art' rather than just 'toys'.

BJDs, with their unique faceups and unique clothing sets and their oftentimes limited release and higher pricepoint tend to cater more to the older 'kids' and the pricing in itself says 'I am not a toy'. The fact that some people treat BJDs - especially LEs - like fine china suggests that - at least for them - the BJDs go beyond simple toy and fall into the category of 'fine china' or 'work of art' or 'a luxury item'.

So, to recap, before I was really exposed to the BJD community or to customizable Obitsus and the other 1/6 scale customizables, those were my main ideas on distinguishing between what I thought to be a simpler fashion doll toy and a customizable ball-jointed doll that wasn't just a toy.

But with the movement of companies creating BJDs in the physical likeness of fashion dolls - someone mentioned the SD16 girl body and then there's the SOOM's Mini Gem that's the 1/6 scale and then there are some US companies that have created BJDs at the 1/6 scale and in the likeness of fashion dolls - the line seems to become more blurred... but why?

The SOOM Mini Gem for example is at the scale of most fashion dolls, but in using my old definitions that define the differences between BJDs and fashion dolls, I find that size aside, they're just as customizable as BJDs and could be seen as littler 'works of art'. Additonally, their faces have a more stylized look to them which helps me see the likeness between them and the bigger BJDs.

Dolls like the SOOM Mini Gem are acceptable for discussion here at DOA, but if I recall correctly, not all 1/6 scale resin BJDs or some other BJDs in general have been accepted into this forum because they were still considered fashion dolls or baby dolls rather than BJDs.

In realizing this, I realize that my old ways of defining between fashion doll and BJDs are different from other people's ways and that there are additional/other ways of distinguishing between fashion doll and BJD.

If a 'fashion doll' is still a 'fashion doll' despite its customizability - wigs, eyes, clothing, face - then what ELSE makes it a fashion doll?

Is it the body shape?

Barbies and the like have exaggerated body proportions - big busts, tiny waists, and big hips and long slender legs, something that isn't quite seen in as much of an extreme in the BJDs.

However, there are BJDs that are following that aesthetic more with more unrealistic proportions - the really large busts, nipped waists, and big hips available for the DD and Obitsus and the Unoa Mocha and Cream dolls - and they were/are acceptable for discussion here at DoA.

Is it the fact that they're 1/6 scale (or more close to) like Barbies?

SOOM's Mini Gems are still okay for discussion and such and they're 1/6 scale. In the DoA FAQs, there is mention that the upcoming Luts 1/6 dolls will probably be okay for discussion.

Is it the fact that the sculpted look - especially in the head mold - is less ABJD and more 'fashion doll' or 'other doll'?

Goodreau dolls had the more baby/child doll looks and whether it was for this reason alone (and it's not because it's an American company, either, according to the old Goodreau dolls discussion thread from way back when), those dolls aren't acceptable for discussion on DoA. However, Unoa 2.0 Mocha and Cream, with their definite fashion doll looks and less Asian stylized faces, are acceptable.

... And so on and so forth.

To be honest, once upon a time, I had a pretty clear view on what the differences were, but now... I'm really not sure anymore and to be honest...

Seeing discrepancies like the ones I mentioned above serve to only confuse me further because... where exactly are the differences that serve as clear markers for categorizing BJDs into BJD-BJD or Fashion doll BJD?

 

I think unrealistic is such a weird term when referring to dolls.. I've yet to see a bjd or fashion doll with entirely realistic proportions..

And I think that any doll could be a fashion doll as long as the clothes come off XD

 

For me, the main difference between fashion dolls and BJDs is the personality. A lot of BJD owners give their dolls backstory, likes and dislikes, even favourite movies, not talking about first, middle and last names. Fashion dolls probably only have a first name, if even that. I mean as a child I did play with Barbies and such, but I never gave them more than a first name and mostly it didn't even differ from the name on their box. I just gave them pretty clothes and shoes and played 'home' with them. I could never imagine myself doing the same with BJDs.
And then of course the ability to customize. I bet 99% of fashion dolls haven't been re-faceupped, rerooted with hair, gotten tattoos or piercings. All of BJDs have been customized more or less. Even if one has a default faceup, she/he has been more customized as you can change wigs and probably anything. Defaoult faceup is a customisation anyway, but I can't say that for fashion dolls.
I'm not even going to talk about the poseability.

 

I loved my Barbies as a kid, especially the multiple Skippers I went through *laughs* Nothing against them, but I do recall a time when I tried to dye one of my Skippers blue and her hair bright yellow to look like a character in a video game. Hair turned out okay, skin not so much. I think she's still upside down in a plastic bucket somewhere in my closet if my parents haven't moved her or thrown her out yet.

Now, I was just a kid and now I know ways I could have probably turned her skin blue, but I think I will agree that one of the main features of most ABJDs is that they are, in general, intended to be customized. Beyond that of course is just in general how they're configured to pose and constructed and all those details.

I think for me the difference is more between collector dolls, such as limited edition Tonners and Barbies, that are meant to be displayed and collected, and other dolls is that they are meant to be played with and customized. Someone mentioned this above as well and I think I see that being even a distinction among fashion dolls. Your little Momoko and Barbie that you buy for your kid is meant to be a play thing. When you add a zero or two to the price tag, it then becomes something more to be appreciated artistically. It will also probably be marketed that way.

Marketing can tell a person a lot about how you're supposed to approach the doll. This is why a lot of ABJD companies market dolls bald and naked. They expect you to want to come into the transaction prepared to make the doll look the way you want it to. This is why there's also so much variety in sculpt, something I do feel is more unique to the ABJD aesthetic, because it is attempting to refine itself more closely to an individual taste rather than a blanket style that is to be worked off of.

This, to me at least, is why certain ABJD art dolls and limiteds seem more like fashion dolls because they are marketed a lot like collectors' fashion dolls are marketed. Sure, a lot of limiteds get changed, but some limiteds are marketed in such numbers that it's generally expected that the buyer will not be changing the way the doll came. Examples are some of the tattooed Narins and Nareas. Despite the limited run on some dolls, sometimes it's still being sold to the public as something ready to be changed if someone wants to. I feel that a lot of the CP limiteds and Volks limiteds are marketed this way.

Perhaps then ABJDs to me are just that one extra step above my old Skipper. It's my adult toy that is more suited towards artistic meddling and carries a more adult price tag. It's still a toy though, just with lots of options to play with. I also agree, it's not really as clear to me as it could be, nor do I feel for my own purposes a real need to separate the two entirely. I don't really "play" with my ABJDs any differently than I did with my other dolls as a kid, but I do enjoy the variation and customizability that ABJDs offer. I also enjoy my more refined motor skills that allow me to customize my dolls~

 

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I didn't see it & I was wondering what everyone thought?
Also, is there a forum here for these dolls? I don't even know if they are resin or not.
What about Tonner's new BJD? Will there be a forum here for that? I personally don't think either one of these dolls look like a true bjd to me, just judging from their pictures though.

Dollfash

 

I think this is a question for the Admin/Mod team to decide on if they haven't decided already, but I think that the Sybarites and Tonner's BJDs are considered off-topic for this forum because of the high 'fashion doll' quality to them.

Since your topic got merged into the Fashion Doll vs. BJD thread, I'll ask why you personally don't think they are true BJDs as a way to maybe revive the thread.

 

Could someone tell me more about the Sybarites? I've never heard of them.

But I guess what's what she was asking for, wasn't it?

 

BJDs are an "evolution" of sorts from fashion dolls. The first ABJDs as we know them were Volks Super Dollfies, which were supersized versions of the original Dollfies, which were, well, customizable fashion dolls.

So they're not the same, but they are certainly related.