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BJD sweatshops?

Sep 6, 2007

    1. of course keep in mind that she is pretty much a 1-person company - no different than many of the other small doll companies on this board - and maybe doesn't have a lot of experience being a "professional representative".

      I'd definitely love to have this cleared up so I hope there's a response
       
    2. That's kind of what I was thinking... That these dolls are made in more studio setting then a factory. Perhaps because I equate factories with big machines and converyor belts and such. I was under the impression that everything was handdone- moldmaking, mixing the resin, pouring the resin, any sanding, stringing. Hence, why it takes some companies more than like a week to ship out dolls.

      That statement from Goodreau Doll made me so angry. I typed up a big rant but I deleted it and decided to wait until I was more cool headed. So many things in that just didn't seem to make sense to me. Like fireflytranc said, she never said that Volks' Super Dollfies are made in Chinese "factories" (which I read as sweatshop)... For all we know, she could be talking about their other dolls, or even their garage kits (do they make them still? I'm not knowledgable about them.) And... Don't these pictures of the guy who created Narin/Narae look like he's in a studio rather than a sweatshop? Ooh, maybe it's just a marketing ploy!

      Then she implies that BJDs are made in Chinese sweatshops, or at least that's how I take the beginning of her fourth paragraph. But at the end she says that cheap sweatshops aren't in China anymore. Did I read that wrong or am I overthinking all this?

      So much of that statement is horribly vague. If Volks or another company IS using sweatshops, don't snidely hint about it- SAY IT! If those accusations have a basis, I certainly agree that the BJD community needs to know. But I can't help feeling that this is a kind of "OMG buy MY dolls" thing... It's all so unprofessional, I'm now not only turned off by her dolls but also by her attitude.

      I would love for her to come here (or even on her DeviantArt, since that seems to be where she posts...) and explain what she was talking about.
       
    3. Her "shooting things off the top of her head" in this way is not acceptable to me. The fact that she is one person running a business is not enough to excuse her utter lack of professionalism here. I've seen plenty of people who run similar small businesses and behave with the utmost professionalism. If you are running a business you should know full well what you are getting in to. You have certain responsibilities and you should be prepared to meet them. I am curious to hear an explanation though.
       
    4. I wasn't trying to excuse it. Just pointing out that this is not a huge company with professional PR people. I've seen plenty of other small companies on this board (and others) end up in somewhat similar situations
       
    5. Wow. What a repulsive little smear-campaign. Yes, please, let's DO hear her explanation. That essay actually made my upper lip curl, most of the way to my nose, by the time I got to the end of it. I'm curious to hear any explanation that'd cast it in a less-ignorant light.

      One might wonder how such an knee-jerk screed could jive with its own statement, "People need to be more educated on subjects to throw their opinion in."

      And no, vegetarianism does NOT provide any exemption from having to back up one's own words.
       
    6. I'm really curious about this -- are there pictures or a statement somewhere about the use of metal molds?
       
    7. Alright, so. I agree with a lot of what's been said on here- that her words are snide, hateful, and apparently a desperate attempt to get people to buy her dolls.
      It's interesting to me that she claims to be a vegetarian in a chemical-free home. What a load of bollocks. Unless you live in a teepee in a national park with no electricty or supplies, you live in a home with chemicals.
      If you handle resin, you live in a home with chemicals.
      Furthermore, she goes back on several of the insults she hints at by saying it's okay that she does it because *she* knows *she* is the only one who does it properly.

      I hope, if and when she responds, she has something intellectual to say.
      But by the looks of things, she's just going to make sorry excuses for saying something so negative.
       
    8. I'm curious--could you list the companies you're thinking of who have been in "somewhat similar situations" here on DoA, and explain how the situations are similar? I don't read DoA carefully, so I can only think of two instances in the past three years; in both of those, a specific company brought a specific accusation against another specific company or against a specific seller. There were no more than four companies/distributors involved in these two incidents, as I remember. To me, "two incidents" is a long way from "plenty," and a dispute between individual, named parties is quite different from the wholesale accusations that are under discussion here. But I may have missed a lot of drama, of course.



      I'm sorry, but I can't let this pass without commenting. Your argument here belittles the situations of all those workers who are and have been trapped in true sweatshop employment around the world.

      Unless someone richer or more powerful is controlling your working conditions--i.e., forcing you to work excessively long hours for excessively low wages, demanding an unreasonably high rate of production, and maintaining an unsafe or unhealthy workplace which you cannot change--then you are by no means working in a sweatshop environment. And neither are individual or small-studio artists in Asia or anywhere else, *if* they have freely chosen that work; have enough control over their circumstances to make their own choices about safety, productivity, and working hours; and are free to leave that environment for other work when they wish to.

      Granted, that may be a big "if." But I doubt that it's as iffy as your equating the conditions of an independent studio artist's work in the 21st-century United States with the conditions in a sweatshop.
       
    9. Cynthia in FlintHills:
      I believe you're taking my words totally out of contex - to clarify:

      1. by "similar situations" what I meant was there have been other companies/artists/representatives in the online world who have said things that maybe (?) they didn't mean to come out the way the did or be interpreted the way they were, whether it be due to language issues, cultural unfamiliarities, newness to these boards, etc. That's ALL - nothing more was meant, implied, or stated.

      2. I was NOT making light of genuine problems. I was merely specifically replying to one part a definition posted: that sweatshop = not making a living wage. And that definition DOES apply to almost every artist I know!
       
    10. Thanks for clarifying what you meant!

       
    11. That essay was..."arrogant" is the kindest word I can apply to it. It's treading the razorthin line between implying unsavory things and outright libel. Add to that the distinctive tang of "I don't NEED the little people who buy my things" and a sharp whiff of holier-than-thou BS, and you've got something fit for the compost heap. Pity, I thought the girl dolls were quite cute, but right now I wouldn't buy a glass of water in the desert from this sanctimonious prig. </offtopic>

      As far as sweatshops go, I'd surmise that skilled workers, the likes of which you need to cast resin, aren't usually into sweatshop labor. China's economy is going through the roof right now and we see new BJDs and BJD companies coming out of there rather frequently--if skilled resin workers think they're being underpaid or overworked by their current employer, they can and likely do go elsewhere. The "little emperors" phenomenon probably also means that BJD companies can make a fortune in China without resorting to sweatshop labor or poor-quality products...or probably even selling outside of China. :lol:

      I raise a serious eyebrow at the allegations that Volks makes any of their resin dolls in China, what with the fact that relations between Japan and China are wound so tight that government officials can cause diplomatic and economic saber-rattling between the two countries simply by visiting the wrong shrine and all. :| Lotta bad blood there. Volks has always struck me as a rather patriotically Japanese company--it's likely a mark of pride that they manufacture everything in Japan using Japanese artisans. Chinese sweatshops would cause a serious scandal for Volks if their existence was leaked to the press.
       
    12. I just thought I'd add that some of the China-based BJD companies are smaller, 'child' companies of much larger companies. (Doll-Zone is a child company of Aike Green, I believe)

      This parent-child company relationship may explain the difference in cost of China-made dolls, in addition to average labour cost. Larger companies have the ability to buy supplies, such as resin for a bulk discount from the source with no middle-man. Smaller companies usually don't have that option, so material cost will be a bit more.
       

    13. Despite all the Sino-Japanese diplomatic friction, as well as rising nationalism on bove side, economic ties between the two countries flourished. With 207billion trade and Japan as China's second biggest investor, I would say bilateral trades have seen double digit growth and never been better. However, my point is neither here nor there.

      The question is: whether or not, Volks, as such small(compare to MNCs) Japanese niche company would choose to manufacture their resin dolls in China. I think I have seen pieces of Volks clothings to be marked "Made in China" (don't remember what they are off hand) but I am quite confident that their reputation would be lost among their Japanese fans, the most loyal and profitable market, if Volks Super Dollfies are made in China. Honestly, I don't think Volks will, nor can, invest money for a Chinese production line: it is simply costly without any insurance of quality. Factory owners would have to physically move to China if they want to produce there, which is what many Japanese have done. However, I am not as sure as the others products Volks has produced because making vinyl dolls/clothes/wigs is what Chinese factories have experience with.

      Also, you can be a skilled worker and still work at a sweat shop. "Sweatshop" denotates the condition of the workers but not the products, how skillful or not, are made of. Quantity is also associated with sweatshop. Again, dolls produced by Chinese companies are much cheaper for quite a few reasons: offhead, labor costs and raw material etc., However, I have been trying to loaf around mainland Chinese forums and they don't seem to be so much more in demand as to be produced in sweatshops.
       
    14. Indeed. If you look at the 27cm and smaller Japanese brand dolls, you'll see they are largely made in China. She may indeed be talking about the smaller Volks products. (And being paranoid, I double-checked my SD and saw the "Made in Japan" label.)

      That said, there CAN be bad feelings between Chinese and Japanese, even in today's modern business world (I know of at least one recent case)... it's a sad product of history.

      All this said, I would LOVE to know more about ABJD production. And if there ARE abuses in the industry, it would be great to be able to know about it and do something.
       
    15. Oh! That makes me so mad. I just KNEW who it was that would say such a thing, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

      I have no doubt that during the summer, the places where our lovely dolls are made are hot, rather unhappy places to be. Perhaps by US or European standards they are cramped or dangerous-seeming with sharp tools and toxic chemicals strewn liberally about. In other words, they're just like the garages and sheds where some of the artists on this forum do their sculpting and casting.

      Also, I seriously doubt these companies would be bringing in outside artistic talent if they were lowering themselves to the level of using sweatshops. What sense would that make?

      I think it would be pretty cool if a company or two would do an online phototour of their workshop(s) :D. If something good comes of that linked post, I hope it would be that.
       
    16. (slightly OT) The doll artist in her 'essay' mentioned her plastic (snappy) dolls as well.
      Some of the dolls she is producing will be made of 'weighted vinyl' which, potentially could be mass produced, i suppose. those are the 1/4 size BJDs that will sell for about $120 USD.

      those can be mass produced in somewhat large numbers, i'd think.

      ------
      the concern i have for some people who make/sand/face-up ABJDs is the toxicity of the stuff they use. being exposed to that stuff on a regular basis can't be good for one's health. if there were a way to be assured the workers are protected as best one can be from toxic substances, it would only boost sales and customer morale about the companies.

      $00.02

      T
       
    17. But no one said sweatshop = not making a living wage. That was only one factor taken into consideration. You just quoted that one line in the rkold's post, but she also posted a link to the Wiki article which stated all the different factors that go into the definition of what is a sweatshop.
       
    18. Thank you Zalem

      mhdolls, if you're going to bring up being taken out of context perhaps you would be wise to follow said advice yourself.

      My exact quote was as follows:
      I would like to think that none of your artist friends are living in a fire hazard, and if they are perhaps the police ought to be notified of said hazard.

      I find this statement:
      extremely flippant to those who are currently working in sweatshops and have worked in sweatshops in the past. (And that is your entire comment in your post)
       
    19. I don't think that BJDs are produced in sweatshops. I think a person or company who wanted to make a large profit would produce something other than BJDs; something in high demand. If you are worried about that you should think more about the clothes and shoes you buy.
       
    20. and wiki is just one source - of many - online. There are lots of other definitions. How about this one:
      The Department of Labor defines a work place as a sweatshop if it violates two or more of the most basic labor laws including child labor, minimum wage, overtime and fire safety laws.
      www.sage.edu/academics/schoolofprofessionalstudies/management/programs/definitions.htm