BJD sweatshops?

But I think artist are different. They are adults choosing that line of work. In a lot of third world countries, people don't have the ability to chose, especially if the are underage. Adults may work in sweatshops because they need money and have no where else to go. Artist on the other hand chose those conditions and most can get a different safer job if they chose. Meaning the conditions may not be good, but they are choosing to work there for the sake of their art. Most, at least in the US, can get different jobs that are after if they chose to, thought they may not want too. Sweatshops usually have employees who have nowhere else to work or can't leave because they need the money to support their families. If they had better opportunities they would choose them, but many don't.

 

But we're not talking about other definitions. We're talking about the definition in rkold's post which is what you replied to. And nowhere is that particular post did she say "sweatshop=not making living wage".

If you want to bring up other definitions, fine, but don't say rkold said something that she didn't.

 

Mhdolls it is not overtime if you are your own boss. Minimum wage does not apply where you are your own boss as well.

I find it abhorrent that you are comparing a career choice you made where you set your own hours and can control your environment with people like the 146 women who died in the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.

And again, you seem to miss the point, you attacked Cynthia for not quoting you in full and did not quote me in full.

 

one claim (the basis for this entire thread) is that bjds are produced in sweatshops

counter claim (by just about everyone opposing that original sweatshop essay) is that bjds are made by artists in garages and the sweatshop claim is all wrong

so if artists can't possibly be working in sweatshops... then what?
Seems to me all people want to do in this thread is nitpik and word choices and phrases and twist meanings

and still no one has proved or disproved either side

 

Reading the post made on Paulette's behalf, because she wasn't the one who posted it, really killed any kind of future support I would have given her.

Being an American BJD company couldn't have been easy considering she's competing against long standing Asian companies like Volks and such.

Being nasty and trying to belittle the bigger fish in the pond? It can only end one way.

 

I didn't quote the entire post - true. I generally cut out all but the main point when quoting for brevity.

I sure don't get what this is all about. How does attacking me further the discussion?

 

whoa!!!!!! I did NOT attack anyone. I felt by the nature of her reply that Cynthia either misunderstood what I was trying to say or else I was not clear. I replied merely to clarify what I meant and intended by my statements.

 

No, it is not nitpicking words, by no one's definition is an artist working in their garage a sweatshop and if someone wants to call it that it is completely offensive.

A sweatshop is something completely different and involves workers in dangerous conditions, not making a living wage and frequently LOCKED in their work environment against their wills.

At one point, I felt bad for the person from Goodreau, but after seeing this unfounded attack, I do not.

You DID misquote me and then misquoted me again in your post #66.

 

This was her exact quote:

You only partly quoted her and then equated her definition with "sweatshop=no living wage" here:

I'm sorry, but her quote does not equal "sweatshop=no living wage" in my book. Again, it's just one factor in the whole equation.

 

The "entertainment" industry I was referring to politely and which is why I used quotation marks is the sex industry in Japan. I've heard from people living in Japan that women from poorer Asian countries are often brought in specifically to work in the sex or "entertainment" industry. Because of the nature of their jobs, their working conditions can be hard to gauge and while this board is not the place for it, I could see a debate on whether said jobs could qualify as being similar to being in a sweat shop.

Again, I reiterate, your choice or anyone else's to be an independent artist is not even close to a being in a sweat shop.

 

oops - sorry - I totally mis-interpreted that one!

can we now please drop the rest of the personal attack against me?
I will withdraw my comments about artists studios if everyone will just stop this

 

So if abjds are mostly made by artists in their garages, where's the sweatshop? That was kind of the whole point (or so I thought) of this discussion?

It seems to me people are taking offense over a non-issue here.
(I am NOT saying sweatshops are a non-issue - just that this side-track is).
There is not a single universal definition of a sweatshop.

But the real issue I thought was: are bjds produced or not produced in sweatshops?
Someone made that claim and it has neither been proven nor disproven.

I don't understand why you all want to continue to argue over who misquoted who, etc.
(Quote= to use a brief excerpt from. it does not mean to copy the entire thing)

I don't feel I misquoted anyone and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

 

Manda_Chan, what did you mean by this?
"Reading the post made on Paulette's behalf, because she wasn't the one who posted it" ....

my question:
what post was made on her behalf and who posted it?
(or did you mean that a post she did make on another board was referenced here by someone else?)

(I'm trying not to be accused of misquoting again, but I really want to understand the point of this discussion)

 

Someone linked to another forum where Catrina quoted Paulette saying all those things about sweatshops and BJD.

Here is the link:
http://www.magicaldoll.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=123

 

I have contacted her through DOA and hopefully she will come and tell us whether she made the post, what she meant by it, and if she has any proof. I like to her what she has to say.

Furthermore, as I said in my last post, choosing to be an artist and work in undesirable conditions is not the same as having to work in a sweatshop to support your family. So if made BJD's are made in that type of environment where you chose to work as an artist it is not the same as a sweatshop though conditions may be similar. IMHO.

 

...If these were artist dolls made by kids/people in sweatshops, they would be significantly cheaper, worse quality because of being made by untrained workers, and how the heck would the default faceups look so nice?

...and why on earth would it take so long?

A sweatshop wouldnt take amonth to make their dolls. They'd have them mass produced, ready to sell in an instant. And dont use shoes/clothing as an example either, because from what i've seen everything ahs a limit, and everything can run out if they are busy working on other things.

//sorry if this has been mentioned already...but ihad to put my word in...

 

that is totally correct. I agree 100%. I'm sorry everything I said got mixed up and taken the wrong way. I did not intend for that to happen.

so.... back on track:
Now will someone please tell me where the alleged sweatshops are that this thread refers to if it is not independents artists and adults in business for themselves?

 

mhdolls I am waiting to hear from Paulette (or her sister as I believe that is her business partner) as to where these sweatshops are and who they produce for. I have given her links to this thread and the one where she is quoted on the other doll forum.

 

thank you. It looks like what Catrina posted was Paulette's actual words so I was a bit confused by the wording of "on Paulette's behalf" (other than Catrina physically placing it on her board). I thought that was what Manda_Chan was referring to, but wasn't 100% sure and I didn't want to make any more incorrect assumptions. Just wanted to be sure there wasn't some other posts being referenced that I had missed.

 

NabeeRain, I hope you get a reply. That would certainly be great to be able to clarify these claims or put them in proper context.

I truly would love to know the truth and facts here.

and again, I don't believe that made in china = made in sweatshop
and made in factory also does not = made in sweatshop.