BJD sweatshops?

I think my friend Paulette is sometimes not good with words online so sometimes she can be taken the wrong way. The fact that her dolls were made in sweatshops in China has been blown out of proportion, and I believe that the word "sweatshop" shouldn't have even been used. She regretted saying those words. As Dollyholic said, Paulette has been to the factory the factory she uses and felt the conditions were good. I cannot compare them to AoD or Dollzone's factories because I just don't know.

Paulette is not a bad person, and wouldn't just get a factory with poor working conditions. Resin casting is hard no matter what country you get it done in. She is an artist, and a great person. She isn't in the doll business to get rich. She has only made 600 of all 4 dolls, and 2 of them won't be made anymore. She believes in short runs of the dolls. I've sold Korean dolls that were limited to 150. I would not call that mass producing. I'm sure that there are way more El's out there, but we still love him. XD

We do not sell Goodreau dolls at my work, so I have no business reason at all to stick up for her dolls. She is my friend, though, and I know her a little better than others. I feel that this thread is more misrepresenting her character and is hurtful. It was hard for her to be judged right off the bat when she came into the BJD world that she wasn't expecting to have to try and defend herself.

About these statements of her badmouthing the competition, I really don't think she sees them as competition. And that's not anything arrogant, it's because they are in a different league than hers. Instead of just assuming stuff about Paulette, and how her company works, just talk to her personally. Don't use her original thread where she was being attacked and questioned as the only reference on her as a person.

Besides... if Goodreau dolls are off topic, why is this thread even here? ._. I know it's just a general topic about sweatshops but it's VERY obvious who this entire thread is targeted at. Paulette's dolls can't be talked about in a positive light, or just normally, but they can be attacked and questioned. That's just peachy.

 

Jennifer, I think this is an execellent point. It does appear that the sole reason for this entire thread is for trashing one company/person exclusively. That certainly seems to be the only real topic in this whole supposedly general debate. And it's not even a trashing of the dolls per se, but an outright personal attack! And right now she is unable to even log and and post her own words.

As for the the many she-should-know-better-and-be-careful-what-she posts-in-public comments.... (I am purposely NOT quoting any one person here - that view was expressed in various wordings by many throughout this thread) ...
well, wouldn't it be a great world if every public comment ever made were perfect and everyone who ever spoke out loud was that perfect!
I seriously doubt that every single person here has made only perfect posts in their online lifetime. People do react, or post too quickly (especially if they are already under attack as was the situation last spring), or are misunderstood, or aren't speaking as clearly as others would like, or even using the same terminology or exact definitions or having the same background. Unfortunately that's not the real world. That's just human nature. And Paulette is very human.

 

This thread was not about the Goodreau dolls at all. This thread was about the manufacturing of Asian BJDs. The reason that Paulette Goodreau was discussed here, was because she issued a very public statement saying that Asian BJD manufacturers use sweatshop labor. She specifically named Volks as an example of one such company. Those are extremely serious accusations. Just because Goodreau might not be considered in the same league with Volks, or other manufacturers, doesn't lessen the impact her allegations. Understandably, the accusations she made caused concern among those of us who buy dolls from these companies. Many of us wanted clarification of her remarks. Thanks to Paulette, we now have that clarification. As I posted previously, I truly respect her coming forward to explain why she said what she did.

EDITED TO ADD:

Yes. Yes, that would be perfect, and as you correctly point out, we are all human. We are all imperfect. We all say things in the heat of emotion. While we can not expect to attain perfection or to never make mistakes, the closest thing anyone has is to take responsibility for one's words. Paulette has done that, and she has been thanked and given respect for having the courage to do so.

 

THIS IS NOT 100 % TRUE

MAYBE THERE IS PLACE LIKE THAT
BUT THOSE TYPE OF CO. DOSE NOT PROVIDE FULL SERVICE SO EVENTUALLY THEY DIE, THEY CAN NOT SURVIVE IN THE SOCIETY.

I REALIZE HOW HARD THIS DOLL BUSINESS IS......

SHE SHOULD NOT TARGET OTHER CO. LIKE THAT
WHILE SHE DESCRIBING HER DOLL IS PRODUCE WITH LOVE IN CHINA
GIVE ME A BREAK, PEOPLE OVER THERE WORK FOR FOOD

PLUS THIS DOLL BUINSESS IS NOT EASY.
VOLKS, ELF, DIM , DOLLMORE - THEY ALL WORK "f~ HARD TO PRODUCE THIS TYPE OF GOOD QUALITY OF DOLLS "

NOTHING COME EASY ~

AS MUCH AS SHE WANT TO VALUE OF DOLL
SHE HAS TO RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S DOLL

THINK ABOUT THE VOLKS - ALL THE MONEY THEY HAVE BEEN SPEND ON THE AIR, PLUS THOSE TYPE OF BIG CO. USE FEW MANUFACTURE NOT SOLO

DO NOT JUDGE WHOLE THING BY LOOKING AT 5 % OUT OF 100 %
HEARING 5 % OUT OF 100 %


I HOPE EVERY ENJOY THIS DOLLFIE WHICH CO. YOU BUY OR WHERE YOU BUY


DOLLY DOLLY

 

She does respect other doll companies. She LOVES dolls and has a lot more BJDs from many different companies than I even have. She has said some things she regretted, but I'm so sick of seeing all of you people target her, and talk down to her, and not speak to her directly. That's all it has been since the beginning. She made dolls for fun before this, has even worked with Disney on doll collaborations, but as soon as she got into the BJD market she was just attacked.

It's so easy for you all to just focus on the negative when we aren't even allowed to talk about the positive about her dolls here. As her friend I have said my words to her about what she says on public forums, but she is a GOOD person and does not deserve this at all.

This is such a foolish topic. I doubt Paulette would sue for wrongful accusations (she is a very forgiving person), but I have known others who would. I think all parties involved need to think about what they are saying on a public forum and how it affects others in the short run and long run. She is just human, like all of you attacking her, or not even trying to understand her. And if it's not Goodreau Doll, or any other company that felt wronged, that gets pissed and seeks compensation for damages due to wrongful accusations, it's going to be others down the road. So everybody (friends included), get your facts straight before posting here.

About the comments that this topic isn't about Paulette, well, even if it didn't start off that way it sure as hell ended up that way. I just see a ton of people antagonizing her.

I am not going to say anything else on this subject because this entire conversation makes me sick.

 

First of all--I'm glad this is getting cleared up, and that it basically boils down to a misunderstanding. This topic was not created to bash Goodreau dolls or Paulette. Someone read her statement and became concerned with how our dolls are produced and started a topic about it. Of course people are going to go back and discuss the original statements that were made and whether or not they have merit. Whether or not her dolls are on topic, the statements she made had to do with ABJDs that are the topic of this forum.

Naturally, people tend to sometimes say things they shouldn't or didn't phrase something well (I've done it before and I'm sure a lot of people here have too). However, some statements are like poking an angry bear with a stick--they will come back and bite you. This was one of those sorts of statements due to the seriousness of the allegations, and Paulette's position as a professional dolly artist makes them come off even more seriously.

As for people sueing on the grounds of wrongfull accusations--the same could be said of the comments that she herself made originally. I'm sorry if she feels attacked on this forum. I know her dolls were not instant hits here, but there have been people who are genuinely interested, and it's typical to discuss new dolls that come out. Not everyone is positive about every new sculpt and company--that's just life, and when you deal with sculpts that diverge from what people are used to seeing stylistically there tends to be more love it or hate it responses.

I don't think this topic was foolish--not pretty, not pleasant, but not foolish. She made an unfortunate comment in a public forum that was bound to upset a lot of people. Happily, she has clarified what she meant which I personally really appreciate (especially since I've been eyeing one of her dolls )

 

JL_Anderson not everyone here is attacking Paulette or her dolls. I did contact her personally. I was genuinely concerned about where my dolls were being made as were others. I was also very concerned with what people were saying about her (one of the reasons I contacted her). I wanted to hear what she had to say and have a chance to tell her side of the story. I don't like seeing people hung out to dry before they have been given chance.
This is just my opinion. I am sure she is not an evil or bad person. She is an artist and loves dolls. She went through a rough patch and I am sure she was hurt by some of the things said and I can understand why she said what she said when she said it.

I have never been in her shoes and at first I judged her, but then I thought it be better to hear what she has to say. I want her to know that her response has done some good. I wish her the best and I pray that she and her company are able to avoid anymore drama. I hope that everyone has learned something from this experience, whether it be not to be rash when posting on forums or to question where your dolls are made. I think I have learned both of these things.

 

JL_Anderson, we understand you're upset by proxy-- but this topic was far from "foolish". It got people to think about where their dolls came from. Lots of people have never had a single thought in that direction before, and they have all learned some things here. And although Ms Goodreau & her public statement may have been a sacrifice to Semantics, she has also indirectly taught people a valuable lesson about backing up one's words, and serves as a cautionary tale about the overly-cavalier use of very loaded words/phrases.

Whether or not there's any collateral brouhaha, any discussion that provokes thought is a good thing.

 

and that same thing could probably be applied to some of the posts and those who posted against her? There were a lot of posts in this thread that were pretty harsh. I doubt those folks would want the same scrutiny applied to their words!

 

Maybe I've misread something earlier on, but what "wrongful accusations" were made against her?
Im my point of view, she made a statement, people responded to that statement... I don't think I read any wrongful accusations were made in this thread.

The only sort of "wongful accusation" I read was the statement she made about Volks producing products in so-called 'sweatshops'.

I'm a bit confused... could you give some specific quotes, please?

 

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As for people sueing on the grounds of wrongfull accusations--the same could be said of the comments that she herself made originally. I'm sorry if she feels attacked on this forum. I know her dolls were not instant hits here, but there have been people who are genuinely interested, and it's typical to discuss new dolls that come out. Not everyone is positive about every new sculpt and company--that's just life, and when you deal with sculpts that diverge from what people are used to seeing stylistically there tends to be more love it or hate it responses.

I don't think this topic was foolish--not pretty, not pleasant, but not foolish. She made an unfortunate comment in a public forum that was bound to upset a lot of people. Happily, she has clarified what she meant which I personally really appreciate (especially since I've been eyeing one of her dolls )[/QUOTE]

You must have met me somewhere. I NEVER thought or spoke about sueing. And as for being sued I back my word up. In the literal sense of definition the sweatshop word works even for me... Long hours no wages..I do not get paid..and very hot warehouse conditions, with toxic chemicals. I just did not finish my thought all the way.
I have read great arguments here. I have NEVER felt attacked. I support the den's decision to ban my dolls. And proudly am a manufacturer, and well I don't buy every doll I see I certainly respect and appreciate all of the artists and truely love manufacturing I even love Barbie and the bratz dolls. .
I just don't have the time to respond to everything, I used to try and it got me in trouble obviously. I see sometimes why it easier to have someone else do all the public stuff. Though I love to mentor, and help out where ever I can, so that might be hard for me to not to be accessible. But perhaps I should go that route also. Keep up the BJD passion, even if it's not my dolls, please support other doll co.s. I was not bashing but defending the other company's choices to make dolls more available. And I'll let you know if you want to go after someone I would rather it me...contrary to what people write I am strong. I'm not going away, I love dolls, and I love being called a fashion doll artist. You cause me no harm, unless you ever say I pirate again, that is the only comment I ever been offended by.
Not representing my co. ever but a personal veiw. Paulette

 

Is it called OT..off topic? I don't have a chance to get on much and I wondered if anyone has ever seen a BJD with a metal armature, it moves in all sorts of directions? Just wondering. I will check back...Paulette

 

Edit; This post was deleted due to its unnecessary nature. (I had my browser window up for about a half an hour while I split this between posting and work -- most of the information contained herein was pretty useless at this point)

 

Yes. This is a Debate forum-- people do come here prepared to pick apart and defend their own statements, and they expect as much from their compatriots (both pro and con). "Glossing things over" is not good in a debate. If one's rhetoric cannot stand up to scrutiny, one can re-structure the argument to make the point more clearly, and explain oneself, or else concede the point altogether. Ms Goodreau made the admirable choice to stand up and re-structure her argument when we all asked, so clearly she was not mortally wounded by the scrutiny.

(Goodreaudoll, the Dollfie Dreams have an armature structure inside soft vinyl, if you're wondering. I don't think they qualify as 'true BJDs', but at last count, we could discuss them on DOA.)

 

[.

(Goodreaudoll, the Dollfie Dreams have an armature structure inside soft vinyl, if you're wondering. I don't think they qualify as 'true BJDs', but at last count, we could discuss them on DOA.)[/QUOTE]


Now I know there are rules here and we are not allowed OT ( just asking as I don't know)...but I have a bunch of the dollfie dreams, I did not think of those. So a big thanks, Paulette

 

Goodreaudoll, I think it's good that you have come forth to make your own statement. At least now we know where you really stand and your comments are clarified. Thank you. I can understand that it's difficult to respond to every comment but the general clarification really does help.

Apply as much scrutiny as you want. This is the debate forum and any comments made on the company was based on the statement they made so no one was making things up. Harsh does not equal libel.

Another thing is half of the thread was spent debating about what sweatshop means and then there was the debate on what you should do if the working conditions of the artists were less than stellar. So no, the sole reason of this thread wasn't to bash someone.

I don't see what's wrong with advising anyone to be cautious about their wording online, especially if they're in a business or is an artist. No one has said 'You have to be perfect to post online!' But if you do post without thinking about the consequence, then don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you. Everyone has to take responsibility for what they said. Goodreaudoll clearly has taken responsibility of their words which I respect. But that you imply that we should shrug off what was said because everyone makes mistake is really idealistic and has little to do with how the real world works.

Again, Goodreaudoll, with the clarification, I'm much happier and feel that it does resolve some questions. The comments above are not to question you or directed at you.

 

The DA journal link is defunct. I would be interested in seeing the explanation, unless I missed it in here? I thought I read all the posts.

 

If anyone is interested, Sundance Channel is running a a program called Mardi Gras: Made in China, where they focus on a factory that makes (mass-produced) beaded necklaces and such for partyers at Mardi Gras. The film is from 2005.

I've only watched a bit of it, but it's an eye opener.

 

I'd also be interested in knowing if anyone save, screencapped, or in some way can restate what was said in the DA journal link? It appears to have put most people at ease, and as this issue is truly a concern of mine, I would like it if I could see, too. : /

I AM happy Goodreau came and posted her, herself. I'm glad she clarified what she meant, even if I can't read that clarification. I didn't see ANYONE make accusations or attacks against her. Harsh words for harsh words was all I saw.

 

Idoru and OpheliaB - Although the complete explanation on DA appears to be down, if you go back, and look at post #119 by Dollyholic, there is an abridged statement by Paulette, explaining her original post.
crimson_moon - Thank you for that information. I set my tivo.