BJD sweatshops?

This is very true. I've been to China and toured a couple of factories. We went to one factory in Suzhou that made silk... starting from the sorting of the cocoons. Then they plop them in hot water and the worker finds the end of the thread to attach it to a machine that unravels it and adds several other threads to make a thicker thread which is then wound. I'm sure the part of the factory we saw was actually the "model worker" area, set aside to show tourists how it's done.

We did go to one factory that required much skill and training. They do embroidery. Unfortunately we didn't make it to the cloissone factory when we were in Beijing. I went on choir tour so we spent more time at historical places than factories. We also did a lot of shopping. Everything was so cheap. It was 8 yuan to the dollar back then. I think I remember being told that their weekly income is really low. Those that thrive are the people who go into selling to tourists like us. The dollar bill was very valuable to them and you could drive down the haggling by offering American money instead of Chinese money. And we were expected to haggle. I pretty much didn't bother because I could easily afford the price they quoted and they needed it...

Anyway... my point... is that if they are in factories like in China, it's probably more like the embroidery factory which has highly skilled workers. They are pretty much working there for life since they specialize in that one talent... like the Peking opera school children or the children at the Children's Palace is Shanghai. They find the person's talent, train the heck out of them and then set them to that one task for the rest of their lives. Maybe I'm slightly exaggerating about their whole lives. But it didn't strike me as a place where there was a large turnover rate in their workers.

Also... American artisans often work for below minimum wage. It takes them long hours to create but the customers are only willing to pay very little. So the work wage ends up being really low. Part of that is because artisans let the customers pick the prices which often is just above price of materials. They under price the actual value of the work just to get it sold. That's not a very smart thing to do because then the artisan just doesn't get paid for what they do or their skills. I've known some artisans who get defensive enough about their pricing that they write on their websites, "I am not a sweatshop worker! Don't pay me like I am."

 

I cant really say about most doll companies... but there is ONE doll company that i had a transaction with that I have serious concerns about the condition of the place where the dolls were produced and the conditions in which the workers have to work. I dont want to publicly accuse the company, in case my suspicions are unfounded. The doll arrived very dirty and needed a bath straight out of the box. If you are personally interested in what company, then send me a pm.
I've obviously never been to the place where they are produced but if their product was so poorly made and dirty then it makes me wonder....

 

Some one told me that Volks has a factory that makes thiers, but I dont really know...

 

I think this is old topic, wonder why this topic rises again...

Yeah, I visited Luts company office several times, old and new both.
(They moved to larger and newer building, as you know.)

Luts offices and casting area, clothes design area are actually one and same, only doors away. There aren't many people or laborers, just skilled cratfmen.

There is a few urethan cast workshop in Korea, most of them are artisans.
Making clothes are same. >.< That's why BJD things are so expensive, I think.

 

Like many of the other posters I think that the level of skill needed to sculpt BJDs is probably far beyond that of a sweatshop worker simply because of the expense and time it would take to train someone. Again, like others, I'd say that there is a much higher probability that things like wigs and shoes are made in such conditions but there isn't really a way to confirm this even if it's true.

 

Their factory is located in Kameoka, Kyoto.

 

I think with this, if dolls ARE produced in sweatshops, any part of them or of our hobby, you have to think, what isn't produced in sweatshops?

Most of what you buy from walmart, clothes, packaging, etc. A lot of it is produced in sweatshops. Are you going to stop buying shoes? Didn't think so. It wouldn't be enough for you to stop purchasing from them for them to stop. :/ Especially if you're not going to stop buying everything made in sweatshops. The thought is a little disturbing, I will admit.

However, I will say it's highly unlikely, considering the nature of the dollies and how they're made, so I wouldn't worry about it too much until concrete proof is given.

 

I still just don't believe there's enough of a market for BJD stuff for sweatshops to be necessary. From my understanding, sweatshops crank out thousands and thousands of product each day. I know the doll hobby is growing, but can you imagine how stuffed the companies' shelves would be if they got even just their clothes and wigs from sweatshops? They'd never ever ever go out of stock. But we all know that they do go out of stock - usually right when you've decided you wanted that item - because they don't store a sweatshop's worth of product.

 

While this is true with some people, and I do think your argument is valid, there are other avenues that people can choose to take besides continuing to purchase sweatshop-made clothes.

Maybe because I'm in a hippie-city, we have cruelty-free (sweatshop-free) clothing lines and a lot of handmade clothes circulating around, and I love supporting handmade stuff. In the dollfie fandom, more often than not we have handmade articles, whether it be wigs, clothing, or otherwise, and that's part of the reason why I enjoy this fandom, is the DIY attitude of its participants. I would hope that it wouldn't turn into a sweatshop-type atmosphere, though if it did, I'd hope that handmade options would be available.

 

BJDs, as we have already established, cannot be made under sweatshop conditions. It is simply impossible to do so with the level of quality that we have come to expect from the dolls, including everyone from the big boys like Volks and LUTS right the way down to the smaller Chinese companies like Bobobie and Resin Soul - and the fact that these two companies have to share factory space proves that it is not mass produced in sweatshop conditions purely because of the nature of the casting process, and the fact that they both have to reply upon the same specialist casters as it is such a niche skill.

As for clothes and wigs I would hope that they are not mass produced in sweatshop conditions, but I suspect that one day as BJDs become more popular someone somewhere with the morals of a dead rat might well start up a clothing company that exploits its workforce. I hope if that day comes we will be able to spot them and boycott their products.

Phil.

 

This is my thought on this. No I don't think BJD are made in sweatshops. But this is what I think about a Chinese worker being paid the same as a Japanese worker.
Okay, I live in California. If you are a say Nurse in my area you get paid a good salary($60-$120 thousand range) if you are a nurse in another state especially if it is a small state you get paid less (maybe $40-$80 thousand range)for the same job. This is also true in my state just buy living in a smaller city. My husband works in our city and makes really good money but if we relocate just a hour or two south he would make a lot more money although he would be doing the exact same job. (But would love his seniority blah blah blah)
So I am going to assume that different countries pay different wages well as different companies do the same. So to say that it isn't fair for people to get paid less because they are in a different country makes no sense. I understand we are talking sweat shops not a normal company. But it is possible out soursing dolls to China is cheaper because the pay scale is less. Make sense?
And not to sound naive but I have to ask dont sweatshop have to do with cheap made items such as clothing and shoes? I apologize if I am totally wrong but I have never heard of sweatshops being shut down for making high-end items.

 

Actually Tsuki, you're a bit ill-informed on the topic of sweatshops. They are more associated with mass production, rather than just cheap items alone. Places like Nike, Walmart, etc... a lot of HUUUUUGE brand name stores use sweatshops, they just never tell you. The association with cheap items comes from the fact that cheaper items are often mass produced. I hope that clears things up for you.

As for Rozen's post; I wouldn't be surprised if they had a factory, but a factory is NOT the equivalent of a sweatshop. A factory just means a large warehouse used for the purposes of manufacturing. The space to make/materials/storage etc... of dolls for a larger company may require a small warehouse :M So let's not perpetuate any misunderstandings.

There probably aren't sweatshops for bjds. 8V It's kind of ridiculous to invest the time,energy,money, materials, etc... into something with as small a market as bjds. Honestly, a manufacturer could make much more money making something else, with a wider range of use. It'd be a completely unrealistic and pretty foolish business plan on the part of the owner of this hypothetical sweatshop.

I don't even know why this topic is still ongoing. >u>;

 

Laelen- Thanks for the information. I should clarify I meant cheap and easy to produce like clothing and shoes. Not just cheap. I know some items such as shoes can be expensive. What I meant by expensive was jewelry and designer clothes. You would never see Channel or any designer of that caliber using sweatshops.
Sweatshops not not regularly discussed in the US and I am not sure why. The last time there was anything big here was the Kathy Lee Gifford scandal. I do know sweatshops can and do exist and any country regardless if they are considered 3rd world or not. But back to the topic I think most will agree that BJD 's and sweatshops do not go hand and hand.

 

I would hate to disabuse you of the notion that top fashion houses would not use sweatshops if they really thought that they could get away with it - we in Europe took several famous fashion houses to task back in the 1980s and 1990s for exactly that reason - because they were using sweatshop labour, including child labour.

They only obey the rules against using sweatshop and child labour because they are now enforced through government legislation, customer pressure and in-trade peer pressure. If they could get away with using sweatshop labour then they would just as readily as Primark would given half the chance.

Most companies only obey the rules because they are enforced. If the rules are not enforced then the companies soon stop following them.

As for the original subject, I would hope that if a BJD clothes manufacturer started using sweatshop labour (as that is the only part of the BJD manufacturing trade that could possibly make use of such practices) that the BJD community, once this was discovered, would boycott their business just like we boycotted human clothing manufacturers that used sweatshop labour until they changed their practices.

People will only do the least expected of them, not the most.

Phil.

 

I think the comment made was irresponsible coming from someone who is endeavouring to become a competitor in the BJD market.

I have read that the lady who said this feels attacked by the community on DOA. It&#8217;s hard to have sympathy. She should have thought twice before she wrote such an inflammatory and self serving remark. When you make the decision to become a competitor you are now operating on a professional level and people will hold you to it. A seller can&#8217;t hide behind the phrase - &#8220;I am just opinionated&#8221;. Many of us are but once you are in the market and attempting to speak from a place of authority you need to be SURE you have your facts straight or else it is just mudslinging.

It is unfortunate that Goodreu chose to help promote their product with backbiting.

As for this post being about bashing Goodreu. Well, if they are getting bad publicity who is to blame? Certainly the original poster had no venom in her question. I think DOAers don&#8217;t like one BJD company bashing the other without proper evidence. That is something to be respected.

 

I would concur with Isenn. It is very unprofessional to mudsling against your competitors when you have absolutely no evidence against them - the old phrase put up or shut up comes to mind here.

As for Goodreu, I hope she apologises to her competitors and then moves on from this, learning that if you say bad things about others then you will be held to account.

Phil.

 

Your right. When I visited China a few years ago the US dollar was worth about 8 yuan, the Chinese dollars, and you could buy a bowl of rice for one yuan. Food was very cheep, soda or bottled drinks cost a little more, 1.50 yuan. So the cost of living is very low.​

 

And this is why the Chinese companies can do things so cheap compared to Korean or Japanese companies - simply because everything costs less - materials, premises, labour, etc. And I am very sure that what Bobobie, ResinSoul and others pay their staff is a good living wage in China.

Phil.

 

I don't know the author of the statement or even the circumstances in which she said it. So I can't comment on what her motive might be.

However, I'm not convinced that the statement that bjds are created in a sweatshop environment is an accurate one. I personally believe that the delicate nature of resin casting renders a bjd to being a more difficult doll to produce and so a lot more care and attention to detail is required. I am prepared to concede that this 'might' be the case in the manufacture of some bjd clothing etc.

 

hmmm...if you want to make it differ between sweatshop and not, you have to come and see and 'judge' yourself.

Allow me to share my opinion in handmade/craft/art in general.

in my place, some crafters (assistants) are gathered under 1 main crafter (as the leader) to create things: can be statue, can be crafts...i even saw on tv, they were doing ceramic pot...People from abroad may see that they look awwww...poor them...and may see it as a 'sweatshop' worker...but I see them as people who enjoy their work...in my place, craft, handmade don't really get a place (loose to mass production stuff)...they don't get a lot of money, yet, they enjoy and the work itself is legal and 'halal' (not a sin...as they don't steal anything, don't kill anyone, and so on)...

It depends on the country where they live, so we can really call it 'sweatshop'...for me...sweatshop is when someone does the job not get paid enough and properly to live IN THAT country, so the price is undervalued (just to get customer) but quality is good.

on the other side, if there's a very-very talented artist, but we don't want to pay them more than they offer because,"you are not famous..." or "you are just a beginner"...so the artist lower the price, wouldn't we make them work in sweatshop?...I think i saw something like this sometimes in critiques section if you know what i mean (^_<)...i even read someone wrote something like don't sell it more than 'this' amount or you will never able to sell because bla bla (he/she compared with mass production work...)...some people don't like sweatshop but may be actually we are 'sweating shop' people! (^O^)''''...ironic, eh?

I like craftfair and i hate to see that the price is so high. There's a level of minimum bargain...once, I can get lower than that...but i understood what a 'handmade' is...so, I don't get any discount...full price for a very beautiful unique handmad

I won't also 'attach' sweatshop to mass production...what if the company pay them well?...
i guess, if we really want to see something, rather than 'hanging around in our mind', we'd better visit and see ourselves...we can search through internet about it or else...there's always a way to learn...

In my place there's a small business category term. If we look into that small business in my place, really, you might categorize it as 'sweatshop' if I just say how they do it...it would be different if you see it yourself...you may have a different view which is common to some literally poor artist:they are not rich (based on your standard of course) but they are happy for what they do.

bjd in sweatshop?...i must see it myself before judging...this 'sweatshop' term really bugs me sometimes especially when it's attached to some asian countries...a lot of definition. I even have my own definition....it's because my standard of living is different from western or other filthy rich asian countries...everything in my place is cheap...moreover in my current town...sooooo, sorry if i feel annoyed because of this 'sweatshop' thing...(^_^)''''''''''...