BJDs and unskilled modifications

And who is to say those people didn't already practice on a test-head and their work still isn't upto your standard but it is up to theirs? If they like it, why does it matter if you do or not? Even with expensive fabrics you still have to start out using them somewhere. For example, I am great with everday cotton, it is super easy for me to sew with, but the first time I used silk it slid all over the place on me and made me keep having to go back and rip out stitches because it slid and didn't stitch straight.

I had to use the more expensive material at some point to see how it would react, didn't I? And clearly, it was alot different then using cotton, you need that first-hand experience at some point.

I think that depends on personal view only, so in the case, we agree, it seems. But again I will say, just because it's 'bastardized' to you doesn't mean the modder or even another random person will think the same. I have a friend who is considering cuting off two of her doll's fingers for a backdrop of his story. Would she be 'destroying' the doll by doing this? Why should it concern you?

And yes, poor quality work will always exist. But people need to start somewhere! They can't learn without trying. Even some of the best modders started out with works that came out bad. What do you suggest? That no one ever mod because it might 'ruin' the dolls in your eyes? Just hide any 'bad' work they do (even if they are proud of it), never get any feedback on what could be improved upon? How does that help anyone?

 

i can see where you're coming from; if I bought a Thomas Kinkade and decided the house he painted looked better green, and I spattered paint over it, I don't think he'd appreciate it much.
I don't think your point was to be judgemental about the face up artist, but, i think the original sculpter (let's take cereberus project for example) knows that sculpting these dolls does come with the fact that consumers will mod them. Sure, there are some people that keep these dolls as collectibles, but a bunch of us on here are just...big kids. xD Big kids that used to cut Barbie's hair because it was too long to be who we wanted her to be that day.
EDIT: And people that wish to mod their dolls, more power to them. They do their homework on how to do faceups and mods from pros, gaining a small amount of experience in sculpting and face up artistry. And if it's something they enjoy doing, i wouldn't be surprised if they started making money off it.

 

It's not my doll, so, ultimately? Whatever happens to it is really none of my business. The sculptors know that their dolls will be modded as well, so they should not be offended.

However, I hate seeing badly-executed modifications. It makes me feel so sorry for the poor little thing, and I always wonder why the owner didn't practice on something else before hacking/carving/sawing into their BJD

 

I do feel bad seeing some badly done mods, or tend to point in laugh at some hillariously badly done mods, but in the end at least these people are trying, and hopefully they are also learning. I'm not the best at faceups or blushing, but just over half of my dolls I have done the faceups for. They're not perfect, or even that great, but I don't think they're horribly ugly. Each one is a little better than the last.

People need to start somewhere. Skilled people just don't fall out of heaven, and most need a lot of practice to get to the level of talent a great doll modification/faceup requires.

 

As a fairly "unskilled" BDJ owner, I'm trying to do my best to learn to beautify my dolls to my own taste. I try to learn through you, guys (this is the purpose of these forums, isn't it?) and if I see the task is too out of my league, I leave it to professionals. But my intention is to learn.

If I mess up my doll, that'll be my problem as I have paid for it. My money, my doll. If I send it back to the professionals to fix my mess, better for the professionals who will get my money. What I do with the doll after I get it back, it's completely up to me, as the doll is still mine.

Think of a car that's been taken to the garage to be painted or tuned and when it gets back to the owner, it's all covered in crappy stickers all over. The guy in the garage may think the car owner is an idiot for covering the car with stickers... but, so what? it's not his car, it's someone else's car.

It's good to be proud of your work and all, but if you're doing a OOAK face up, dress, wig, mod, whatever, that is destined to be sold to someone else, you have to bear in mind that the final owner of that piece is entitled to do whatever they want with it. Otherwise, keep it for yourself.

BJD would be such a boring hobby to me if I couldn't play and do whatever I want with my dolls. And being considered "not worthy" of re-painting the dolls I've bought just because I'm not skilled enough would be very insulting. How am I suposed to learn then?

And, really, it is a bit pompous saying that dolls that are made in series in a factory/workshop, just because they're beautiful, are art. It goes completely against the true definition of art. But that would be another discussion to be taken elsewhere. What I mean is that the manufacturers are not going to be too worried with what is it that you do with the doll after you purchase it, because they already have your money in their pocket. Thinking otherwise is pretty naive, in my humble opinion. If those dolls were meant to be sold not to be modified, then they should come with a contract saying so:

"Dear, customer:
Should you dare changing this doll's face up, or modifying it with scars or horns or claws, please be aware that we'll sue you! We've got spies in your neighbourhood. Enjoy you doll.
Sincerely,
SuchandSuch Dolly-Makers Inc."

So far, I don't think it's the case... At least, non of my dolls came with one of those...

 

I have done it- I have modded and not done a fantastic job. I sold the doll to a very happy new owner, nonetheless. It happens. I think because I have ventured there it makes me very tolerant or forgiving of others' bad faceups and mods. I can see, though, why someone would feel bad inside about seeing a limited or rare doll heavily modded into something they felt was not an improvement. It is one less "perfect" doll potentially available out there. Lets say there is a doll you absolutely loved that was LE 20, and you didn't get one in time. Then someone goes and turns them into a monster doll that cannot be reverted back to original form. I can see someone feeling like crap when they see the monster doll.

 

I don't think anyone's saying that no one should mod or change their dolls - but they are saying that if you do, it's best to say so. If I was a faceup artist, and someone made a change that I really didn't like to a faceup I did but still went around saying I was the one who did the faceup, I'd be pretty irritated. They'd have the right to change their doll, but they also have the responsibility not to damage the faceup artist's reputation by not disclosing their own modifications to the work.

 

I'm not an expert in modding, but just because somebody becomes skilled in Barbie modifications after much practice, I can't imagine that would mean that nothing can go wrong once he tries a resin head for the first time. At least, I definitely would not entrust my dolls for modifications to that person.

You've heard this one many times I'm sure: People make mistakes, that's how they learn. For people to become skilled in modifications on BJDs, I'd imagine there would be some damaged, or even destroyed, dolls in the making. Though I'll admit, if somebody had the audacity to attempt a mod on a one-off for the first time and failed, I would be pretty irked--especially if I wanted that doll and lost out on it.

 

Tricky subject !

First, Art is all and nothing ! Keep in mind than even a piece of toilet can "be" art and I'm not even joking it really happened ! A black painted canvas with a lilttle white square in the middle can be art and sell for millions, is it really art, skilled, no for the skill, dunno for the art since as said art is all and nothing in the same.

After, I won't lie, sometimes I cringe when I see some face up or mods, but the owners are so proud and happy that never I would say out loud : that's crappy, what the hell were you thinking about ( even if I may think it) ! For the simple reason that they are happy, that's maybe not good to my eyes, that's maybe not good to other folks eyes but who are we to judge ? Maybe our own work is crappy after all ?

Nobody can't ask no mod from beginner/noob, why and how could we ? Everybody has to start somewhere and even if it's the first time for a mod and it will be total crap we have no right to whine out loud, we can feel crap, feel sad for the doll anything we want, but at least that person dared to try, and I don't know many people so skilled first time they try something ! And if they want to try their first mod on a 1000 $ doll that's their problem I guess. I don't think someone has the right to complain since it's not our money ^w^

And to reply to the question a bit off topic why to start first on very expensive fabric first ? easy : people choice, you can't and won't be able to go against this. If they made their choice to start with very expensive fabric and mess all .... that's their choice, nothing more. They could had take cheaper ..... yeah and ? They wanted the expensive one and nothing more and so what ?

Anyway if you don't make the first try/step, you will never do a lot. No matter if you are skilled or no, we always start somewhere.

For the face up thingie, if I was a face up artist and my customer would change the face up and get an ugly thing to my eyes, I would ask her/him to stated what changes she/he did ! Not because that's not "art" anymore just because I would really like to keep my reputation !

I state anyway that "you" doesn't refer to someone in particular, but it is a "you" generic !!!

 

^Exactly what I was trying to say... Art just is. If you consider a BJD to be art and you consider the faceup to be part of that art, then there's no such thing as a bad faceup.

 

for the fabric, that may be true, but that doesn't mean that just because they've practiced on the cheaper stuff, everything is ging to turn out perfectly on the more expensive stuff. There still needs to be room to actually learn on the more expensive material. There is no guarantee that it will behave exactly like the stuff they've been learning on, even if they are very similar.

As for practicing on Barbies or something before doing mods...no, just no. They are't even close to the same material and maybe the hand motions are similar, but there are still differences that could cause problem once a person does start attempting to mod resin. With a Barbie, you just cut the holes out and are done. with a resin doll, there is cutting and shaving and sanding to reshape, plus possible beveling of the eye wells. *That* is not something one can gain experiece with without actually trying it out on resin. It won't work on a Barbie and it won't work properly on an Obitsu or Dollfie Dream. Skilled modders don't drop out of he sky with mad eye opening skillz, they have to pratice, and part of that*is* the risk of effing something up beyond repair.

As for the other part of the OP, yes, it is right for the doll to be associated with the original company. If the doll was a Bermann and you sanded it's nose/lips/ears/whatever off while modding it, it was *still* originally a Bermann and needs to be mentioned. Doesn't matter if someone thinks it's going to "shame" the maker or artist to see something like that done to a doll they produced because said person thinks the mod is badly done (or yes, even if it *is* badly done), it's what is fair because it is something they *did* originally produce. No-one should be able to say "Oh, you shouldn't associate that with Mr.Dollshe because it looks like crap now."

 

Some may, but some either don't want to or are unable to, I'm thinking. Some owners get their first dolls as practice pieces for future mods and sometimes it just isn't feasible to wait and wait for junk or othrwise unwanted pieces to come up in the marketplace for them to practice on. I think that for some people, the logic is that the best way to get modding experince is just to plunge right in and work on the doll you want mods done on.

 

I was one of those "just plunge in" people, and while I have a couple of languishing heads that I weep for when I see what I did to them... at the end of the day they ARE just plastic doll heads.

This is not to say that I don't understand the OP's implied point. I understand it too. It IS art, and it does feel a bit funny to dig into someone else's artwork with an exacto knife...

 

To be honest, if these dolls weren't customizable I wouldn't have gotten into the hobby at all. That was the big draw for me... the fact that I could paint the doll and create something completely my own.

That goes for mods, too. I agree with those who've said "everyone has to start somewhere". No, not all mods will be great ones, or to everyone's taste. But I don't think that anyone has the right to tell someone else they've created something ugly. This entire hobby is a very subjective one. Even that messy faceup that you (general "you") think is horrid may be treasured by the person that did it, because it's their first faceup. And if it's important to them, then it is no less meaningful than any other part of doll "art".

If these dolls weren't meant to be altered, they would only be sold as fullsets, or even with rooted hair and permanent eyes. Doll companies understand that customizability is an important part of BJDs, which is why they sell blank dolls in the first place. I don't see a blank doll as a completed piece of art... I see it as a stepping stone, a jumping-off point for an owner's creative process, provided by the doll company.

Even if a mod isn't to my personal taste, I don't really look at that doll and mourn it as some sort of desecrated piece of art. I see it as someone exploring their own creativity, which to me is always a good thing.

 

I don't see any wrong in any modification/customizing of a doll.... and no Leenah I don't believe that a bjd is just like a painting .. because a painting is the prototype when bjd are casts which can be reproduced as many times the company wishes ... The prototype sculpt is in the hands of the artist-sculptor-company so whatever someone does onto his/her doll doesn't harm the existence of this doll in general , it's not like getting an original Modigliani sculpture and mod it -& in Modigliani's case it doesn't matter your skill , it's not theme of doing it well or not , it's don't do it-
...But when something is in a constant reproduction & may come blank it comes for customizing , bjd are artistic & quality items but not completely art , only the prototype sculpt is art , the casted resin doll is coming not as art but as a reproduction of art, & with the option for further customising/modi etc... it's like a print/poster made using a photo of a painting -well hand work is needed like in press of older times etc- but it's not like the painting itself..
If it was art like a painting the companies would never sell unpainted dolls/parts or let them sold for playing /redressing etc they'd said "put it on a shelf & admire it without touching"...
I can't see any bad coming by someone practice on his/hers bjd if wishes or make an art-work on it which others doesn't like .. art is a matter of preference & practice a right which got paid by buying the doll...
I agree with all previous posters that something may look poor for someone & excellent for another ... there are no standarts or absolutes in art.... anyone can do as wishes with his/her dolls & be totaly happy with the result ,even if you think it's poor ... It's his/hers art & doll ... & the final case is to have a doll he/she likes & be happy with it ...

& I totaly agree with this!!!
& for the last question when someone modifies a doll needs to brag about it (naturally) so always says "this doll is modded" ,anyone then understands that there are differences with the company doll , & for me it's nice to say which doll was the one modified , it is by far better to mention which doll is than hide it ...

 

people put a lot of love into thier doll mods. they often try their very best, and while it may not turn out great it was still done with care and love. and in my eyes that's what matters most.
when my boy comes in I'll be doing my first face up. I'll do my best, but even if it doesn't turn out great he'll still be my beloved doll and I will not hate him or myself for it.

 

I fully support people being able to do what they want with their own dolls. Bad mod's and faceups aren't exactly pleasant to look at, but if the owner is interested in getting better, then it's just one step in that journey.

What I don't understand is when people who aren't interested in the artistic aspect of faceups and mods, have no artistic skill, and yet they do the faceup themselves to save money. When the faceup turns out horrible they leave it and don't try to improve. I like beautiful things, so if after much practice I still wasn't able to do a beautiful faceup, I'd send it out for a commission so my doll could be gorgeous and not just "nice try" or worse.

 

Doll modding is rather similar to peircings and tattoo's on a human. The same issue frequently shows up there as well. Many, many people see tattoo's as an art. Just as many see them as an ugly, unneccesary addition. Who is to truly tell? In the end it is the owner who has to live with a 'bad' mod, not the beholder. In the end it is no one's right to damn another.