BJDs and unskilled modifications

I must agree, I have started painting/modifications on a doll myself, and i feel pretty much uncomfortable with it, because I lack skill and because the BJD itself is a piece of art that wasn't made by me, so I can not go and ruin it... but if you never start doing anything you will never develop any artistic skills, right? So of course people shoudl be careful...but well...I'm mostly confused about it all teh same %)

 

The original sculpt or face-up or outfit that the artist working for the BJD companies creates by hand and puts all their time into is a piece of art.

The copies that are made from it and sold to consumers are PRODUCTS. These people who are paying $150 -$1,500 for their dolls can do whatever they want with them and if someone doesn't like the end result then that's kind too bad isn't it?

Maybe a "skilled" artist could give them some polite constructive advise on technique, but really, not letting them do what they will with their own doll??? come on, now.

 

Art, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One persons unskilled modification could be seen as a masterpiece by somebody else.

To me it comes across that there are two major branches in the BJD hobby - The Collectors and The Customizers. Modifications and customizations may go 'wrong' or not turn out as expected, however I don't see that as making them automatically less worthy.

Another thing to consider is that each individual has different skills, abilities and attributes that affect their skills and abilities. I hope to try doing my own faceups, even though I expect they will come across as unskilled modifications, what most people looking at my work would probably end up seeing is bad craftsmanship... What they probably won't see is the hard work I put in, fighting against hands that can shake so badly at times that I feel I have no control

 

Like other have said a person has to start somewhere.

yes the are beautiful dolls but when a modder becomes serious and takes the step to change their doll that in itself can be art even if it is not 'perfect' in some of the eyes of other people.

 

I think we're talking about skill, i.e. quality and not beauty, those are completely different, aren't those?

 

Not always...it's possible for someone to do a very skilled mod job that other people don't find attractive and an imperfect job might still have aspects to it that the modder did do well and are aesthetically pleasing. Unless you're talking about very extreme examples, there's a whole lot of grey area. Individuals may also have different standards and ways of rating skill level as well.

 

I am not sure what to think about it. It is their doll, they paid for it, so they can do whatever they want with it. I've seen some great mods out there, and I am pretty sure the artists must have messed up a dollie sometime too while learning the skills. Yet, seeing some poor butchered dollies, knowing how much they cost, it makes me a bit sad. But who am I to judge ^^"

 

first of all, great topic!!

Now if BJDs are considered as art, shouldn't they be respected as such? They are made with skill and if it is to be modified or changed in any way, shouldn't the person making the changes be just as skilled and provide the sort of results that would come from the company that made them?

I think BJDs are respected as art... whatever that may imply. Like any type of art right? Gorgeous paintings and such? if you mean preserved and appreciated?
the person making the changes has reasons they want to mod the doll, whether it's for personalizing, building character, etc. If I wanted to mod a volks doll, I wouldn't be doing it to make it look more like a volks doll. I'd do it to make it appeal more to me, not to the makers.
And everyone would have to start some where, for the skilled part ^_^;

If someone is not skilled enough and a doll ends up looking a mess due to these lack of skills, do you think that these dolls should have never been tampered with?

Sure I would think that, if I didn't like the end result. But hey it isn't my money and pride.

What about the companies that these dolls come from? There was a thread somewhere about a face-up artist who had done a face-up for a girl, and the girl had painted over the lips. The face-up artist was very particular about her work and did not want this girl to associate this face-up with her anymore because the painted lips modification was not her own and did not reflect her skill.

Most companies are very particular about making their dolls absolutely beautiful and flawless when they arrive for the customer. If a doll of theirs is modded to the point where it looks like an unskilled craft, is it right to associate this doll with the original company anymore? Like the face-up artist mentioned, perhaps they are bothered by this and don't want to have the company name associated by bad alterations.

Err yes it would still be associated.... Like hey ma this is the charco/toast I made from your $3000 wedding cake. It was the cake, so of course they're inseparable.
Bad alterations doesn't link the company/faceup person to the unskilled modifier. It just makes the modder embarasssed and sad about their skill. (skill being the ability to make this "beautiful and flawless" thing into something else. bad.)
(I don't know who this faceup person is, but why hate when it's the client who wanted a change? Obviously different beauty standards, but why be offended by that?)

one-offs and limiteds... a bit intimidating and no way would I do that, unless it's the sculpt that is limited and not the faceup. For faceups I think starting with a blank slate is the best. Second best is to keep the beautiful faceup already there.

 

Great post 7777777luck!!!

Each doll I have seen has been an artistic rendering of the owner of that specific doll. Do I like the way they all look? No ... but that doesn't make it any less artistic. I'm sure there are people who don't like my dolls ... it happens.

Part of what drew me to BJD's is that even if I had a doll that everyone had ... no body would have 'my doll'. I could change him as slightly or drastically as I wanted.

I can't fault anyone for trying to do the same.

And there are artisans out there who can help to rebuild those dolls that have been overly modified, so the doll isn't 'ruined' then either.

 

While some people consider these dolls as "Art", i myself did not buy them as art pieces in anyway. I bought them to create characters for a story, to use them in another form of art... photography, video, etc. If the doll i bought is close to what i want but not exactlly, i'm going to have it modded to be or look like how I myself want. I don't think it right for a face-up artist to get all huffy because a doll's owner added a little something to the doll's face-up. If it wasn't quite what she wanted, she has every right to change it. I go back to the sewing example in a slightly different way. A high fashion designer creates a beautiful dress. They make a bunch and sell them. A person comes along and absolutly loves the dress and buys it. They get the dress home and it's not quite exactlly what they want. It's a little too big, a little too long, a little too poofy, etc. They do some minor alterations (hemming, taking in the seams) and maybe add a bow or a belt to it that wasn't there before. It's exactlly like modding the original design. It's still the same dress, by the same designer, with the same fabrics. They're just making it more unique, more personalized. Something the owner is happier with than the original. You can compare it to anything that is easily customizable. A Car, a house, a computer. What you buy "off the shelf" is just the starting point, if that's what you bought it for. As for using "expensive dolls" to practice mods on? a free head is a free head no matter how much you might pay for it in the MP. If you got the head for free in an event and you want to practice modding on it, what monetary loss is there and why should a person feel bad for screwing up a mod on a head they didn't pay for.

 

If somebody buys a doll it's theirs to do as they want with it. If they mess it up in some horrible way and then post a picture of it on the Internet, then it's other people's right to criticize it or turn up their noses at it or otherwise speak about it. If the unskilled modder lie about the source of the mods (i.e. paint over a doll's lips and say it's a faceup by famous artist X) then famous artist X has a right to publicly disavow work that's not her own.

None of this equates to the right to deny a person a doll or the right to take a doll away from someone for not having a high skill level. These dolls are not the Mona Lisa, they're commodities that were made to be sold to people who customize them. I don't go around "respecting" them as art or any such rot. I "respect" the work of the person who designed the doll in that I paid the company a large sum of money to own a piece of that work, but the bottom line is that this is an item that was made with the intent of people customizing it for fun, whether they do it well or badly. If you're into the idea of dolls as unchangeable art, then go buy an art doll and get out of the BJD hobby, because you're in the wrong place.

 

I'd have to disagree. Dolls are for the person who bought them with their own hard-earned money, not for the companies they bought them from (they already paid them!) or the people looking at them (it isn't theirs!). Mind you, if it's a terrible mod and they asked for critique, I would mention the flaws, because I do acknowledge them. I just don't think there's anything wrong with doing whatever modding you'd like to your own doll. However, you should mention if you did any modding after you say which mold it is, since wouldn't you want to take credit for your own work anyway?

If a doll is so hideous after modding, go look at your own instead. *shrugs*

 

Everyone has to start somewhere...however, it isn't difficult to pick up cheap practice heads! Practice on a head that doesn't matter so much before you risk ruining your full doll.

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter if the whole world and their uncle thinks your mods are awful, if you love your doll, that's all that matters!

 

BJD's came first from a company famous for pioneering different kinds of mod kits for dolls and figures of different varieties. So I have never quite understood the arguement that modding a doll ruins it. That, in combination with the necessary customization of face ups and body painting and wigging, and costuming and eye choice can infer a spirit to the artform that invites the BJD's to undergo a certain amount of further, more drastic modding.

The BJD's are blank canvas', it's up to each person how far they take things. A blank canvas is only so artistic until it is created upon.

Are the dolls themselves so much art,--in their natural form--that modding is a defacement? Of course not. They are reproducable items. They are cast from molds. So they are craft more than art--that is, until an owner buys one and makes them unique.

I do ceramics as well, and those gigantic Korean vases... the ones large enough to put 2 or 3 people in? The ones that go for thousands of dollars.... They start out as cast blanks. Pure, smooth, unmarred surfaces that some think should only be glazed and painted for best effect. But the ones that fetch some of the highest price, the ones that are most liked by me and many others are the ones where surface sculpture has transformed the cast, mass produced vessel body into something unique and one of a kind.

I feel the same way about the BJD's. They are meant to be worked upon. How much you do so it to your taste. By logic, nothing is beyond the par with modifications so long as the owner is happy.

As for quality... I wholeheartedly agree that any modifications be practiced before being executed. There are resin blocks you can buy for scraffito and other carving arts that work wonderfully as practice bases for all manner of reductive modification process. And there are countless resources out there to research the casting or apoxie sculpting of additions such as ears and such. Hell, talk to a professional sculptor.

But regardless of how skilled you are or aren't before you attempt a mod job, it's ultimately not a bad thing, even if you "quote" ruin the doll. It's a learning experience that can enhance your enjoyment of the hobby. And that means everything. It's an expensive lesson, but life is full of those. *shrugs* so it's hardly a big deal. One of my most beloved dolls was a very failed mod. I resculpted her ears, scraped her entire body with a blade and then polish sanded her. And she's a dear, dear thing now. She looks great!!! So ruined is often a relative matter.

I wholeheartedly endorse taking your adventure with personalizing BJD's as far as you're inclined. I myself have contemplated buying a certain ruined doll on the marketplace to see if I can do something exciting with her. It's an adventure!

 

This. I have a practice head. He is still in the process of being modified. At this point I'm not sure he'll ever be 'done'. But when it came to modding my LE? Yeah, no. He flew cross-country and is in the hands of someone with faaarrrr more experience than I. Maybe someday I'll have the experience to do something like that on my own, but not yet. Start small and work your way up.

 

I look at it much like I look at it like people. What you do is what you do and if makes you happy then fine (there are some limits but that doesn't have anything to do with this). If I buy something then I am allowed to do what I want to do with it, even if that means hacking my doll apart and stapling it back together. It makes me sad if a limited has it's face-up wiped but that's not enough to make me say something.

 

I'm starting to make my own dolls.
I'd honestly hate to see them modified, even to have their faceups changed, when all a person would have to do would be to ask me, and I'd do it myself. but they're going to be art dolls, not like uber-customisable BJD. I have a mind to make them in porcelain, try modding that! ha! even the faceups will be permanent ^_^
I think it's just a part of the culture of BJD that they are meant to be customised though, and if you don't like it then get art dolls XD
everyone sucks at something the first time they do it, and almost everyone (ie. those who practice) improves. Bad mods will be sanded off and tried again, ditto for faceups, and if they ruin a doll in the process, who cares? it's their doll and their mistake and they have a right to it.
that said, ugly faceups/bad mods offend me, and I choose not to look at them. that doesn't mean they don't have every right to exist.

my 2 cents. (which is worth less than your 2 cents because of currency conversion :p)

 

Ehhh, sure, if it's your doll you're free to do what you want with it, but it still saddens me to see really bad mod jobs. Poor faceups bother me too, but at least those can be changed and improved over time. If you saw a doll's nose off, though, that's it. No more nose.

I'll bring back the much-loved (or hated) car metaphor--if someone buys a very expensive, classic car and then modifies it so that the quality of the car is significantly reduced, I'd say that other car modders would be justified in feeling miffed. Same goes for dolls, at least with me.

 

But with the car metaphor it is more like... getting one of the recent cars off a car lot... then slapping some bumper stickers on it or repainting it... or doing whatever mod you want to do. That's one car that rolled out of a factory that made hundreds of thousands just like it. The reason classic cars are "classic" is because all the other hundreds of thousands that rolled out of the factory have met with untimely ends decades ago and so few have survived until now. The modders are messing with something akin to an antique (not really the definition since many die hard antique dealers require something to be 100 plus years). Unless a doll is a limited edition I don't think it has any danger of becoming like an antique anytime soon, especially since many of them are still active molds.

 

I can deal with unskilled mods. As many have indicated before not everyone is born with skills. Sometimes you need to acquire skill through practice, but stupid mods are a different story. There’s a difference between someone who did an eye opening mod, but didn’t manage to get symmetrical eye shapes and someone doing an eye opening mod with a hammer. The first is tough luck and better luck next time and the latter is just "Are you really sure that’s a good idea?"

In the end every doll owner is allowed to smash up their doll with a hammer if they like. It may make me flinch, but I have to agree with the following:

I’ve removed a finger from a doll as part of a back story, but as a result I’ve been asked several times if the finger broke off during a fall and I couldn’t get a replacement part and thus sanded the edges of the spot where once the finger was. No, I removed it deliberately. Some people find it cool, others think it a shame and none of them are wrong.

Still people should think before they mod. It's okay if you don't have the right amount of skills yet, but don't do stupid things that will most likely ruin your doll like for example using wrong tools, because you were too lazy or cheap to buy proper tools.