BJDs and unskilled modifications

I have to point out that yes, other modders/owners may get miffed but its not WRONG for the modders to to do so to their OWN objects.

I believe that once a person has bought and paid for the object it is their own to do with as they please. Comparing these dolls to classic cars and art just doesn't really sync up.

Yes, some dolls can be considered art in the fact they are sculpted, some are limited, etc. But if you get down to the bottom line, these dolls were originally made by a company that encourages customization.

Then down to the classic cars analogy - Even if the car is classic and basically an antique the person who owns it can do with it what they will. It's THEIR car. Not a piece of priceless art. They purchased the car, modified it themselves with their money. Yes other car collectors/owners/buffs might get upset by this but it is not wrong. The person bough and paid with the car with their money. period.

The same goes with dolls. The person bough and paid for the doll with their money. What they do with it, is their own personal business. Will other doll owners who love the doll mold get miffed if a job is badly done on their favorite mold. Probably, but it comes down to, it's NOT their doll. It's the person who paid for it's doll.

Once again, as everyone has said including myself, these dolls are made to be customized, painted, dressed, etc in the eyes/dreams of the owner. The doll companies encourage this (heck, read usagi's post a page or two back about the Volks doll it's a prime example).

Bad mods or not - dolls were made to be customized, there is nothing wrong to it, even if its unskilled. Yeah... people should probably practice more, but hey its their money and loss if they screw up. I feel the doll could still be related back to the original doll maker/etc simply because the vast majority of them encourage customization.

 

Honestly...if people didn't mess up their dolls to learn, they wouldn't get better, and I would be out of projects to restore.

They are artwork that is specifically sold for the buyer to customize. Saying you can't mess with it is rather like passing out a coloring book to a creative individual and telling them all the Smurfs in it must be blue. It would be a very sad day if there were no child out there that colored their Smurfs other colors, given the opportunity.

 

I've certainly been guilty of poor modding and unskilled, flawed face-ups. I've often found, though, that in the end, it's not the technique or the level of skill that matters - it's the doll. I have a doll I painted a few years ago, and now, I could do a much more skilled and detailed job, but I'm afraid to touch it anyway; it's who he is, and he is what he is, flawed face-up and all.

Of course, it's sad when a beautiful doll is damaged in our eyes, is breaking apart, or needs extensive repairs. In a way, though, it opens opportunities for customization (such as Buff's work). It does feel like a waste, like disrespecting companies, even if you paid them to do it. But...it's inevitable in such a highly customizable hobby. I keep seeing references to "art," but really, art is what you make of it, in my opinion.

 

Once someone purchases a doll, it's entirely their own property & they can do as they wish with it. Personally, I've seen very few mods that I actually liked with exception of opening closed eyes & adding elf ears, but that's merely my preference & has nothing to do with something another person may choose. As always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder & something I may think is hideous or very poorly done may be the height of beauty to the creator.

I've done some face-up enhancements that I later thought were huge mistakes but as it turned out, several other people loved them & bought them from me. So who knows? These dolls were made to be customised & each owner has the right to do as they wish with them.

Would I buy a doll with a bad face-up or strange mods? No, but I bet that somewhere out there there's another person who would. In the end these are merely dolls, even as close to fine art sculpture some have become. I can't really say that it saddens me to see something done to them that I find unpleasant but I do often wonder about the reason behind it.

 

Thank heavens for folks like Buff!

Their money, they can do what they want to the doll. I can't say I get upset when someone butchers a doll. I may find it pretty amusing though. My first faceups were a laughing stock! >__< But its just a doll. Even if its a limited doll that I may want, I'll just look for another one. Its not the end of the world.

That said, I encourage everyone attempting mods to 1. RESEARCH! Theres tons of resources out there to help and 2. start small! A little bit at a time. Walk away from the project often so you can come back with fresh eyes. I think a lot of the times mods go wrong because a person went a little too far.

 

In my opinion, people need to start somewhere. But i have seen mods done on dolls that are very bad, but the owner loves them! So i guess the saying 'to each their own' falls in to place really, because while i wouldnt want that kind of doll, if the owner is happy with the mods theyve done well then, i have no right to say otherwise.

 

This sounds like a rather touchy subject.

However, I'll put myself out there. Depending on where you are, many countries will up hold the 'moral' rights of the artist. Now, what that means varies. Sometimes it refers to modifications, and it can even refer to how the artwork is used.

Now, if we consider BJD's works of art, then it is up to the artist (the companies/makers) to take issue with this. I, personally, don't see any company taking legal action against someone who paid them hundreds of dollars.

I, personally, see BJD's like a lithograph or a very high quality print. They are copies of the original. These 'prints' still fall into the category of fine art, but they are not the original. If I want to paint or modify an expensive print that I paid for, I would, but I wouldn't be selling it without further understanding of the legal issues that might arise.

 

BJD companies won't do anything to you and there are no legal issues, because they make their dolls with the intention that they will be modded. BJDs are works of art in a way, but they aren't fine art pieces intended to never be altered--that's not their purpose or the intention of the creators. That's why a lot of doll companies sell customizing supplies, and bjds are made to easily be taken apart, their eyes changed, etc. The motto at the top of the Volks USA website says "we seek creativity." BJDs are as much a creative vehicle for their owners as they are for the original companies.

People should stop thinking of them as something akin to painting or sculpture (they're not even really like prints, though I understand where the comparison was coming from, but even prints are not meant to be changed). Try thinking of them more like figure kits--that would be much closer to the mark.

 

Dolls are created to be modified by their owners in by opinion. I disagree slightly about doll companies' feelings on the matter. Examples come to mind about Fairyland's minifees. There are open eyed Shushus available, I doubt a bad eye opening on a sleeping Shushu would be appreciated by them. If they have an owner gallery I think they are in the right if they chose not to allow a badly modded doll to be posted on their site. I also wonder about Denny from DiM who hand sculpts minimees. He will take the time to do exactly what you want. He will even make changes to the final sculpting according to the buyer. If he had an issue with poorly mods to his hand sculpts I completely understand why.

That being said doll owners can do as they please with their own dolls. I can't even say Im in the galleries, cringing at bad faceups and mods. I honestly don't care, it's not my doll and if the doll is posted by an owner proud of their work who am I to judge otherwise? I'm more offended by people who sell and buy dolls like changing their underwear.

Personally I only do faceups and engineering on my dolls, I'd feel terrible if I ruined them in a way I couldn't fix myself.

 

At some point, doing serious modifications to a doll seems... the wrong approach. That is to say, eventually the doll is so different from the original that you should really be making your own doll. I mean, there's a difference between sanding down the pudgy cheeks of a 4 Sisters head, or carefully opening the eyes of a sleeping doll, and say completely changing the eyes, nose, chin, face shape, etc... Sure, it's your money and your doll -- not arguing that -- but if you're going to do that much to a doll, I think it's far better to make your own. Or to have someone make a doll specific to your creative vision (Minimee, for example). Dolls occupy a difficult space between "canvas" and "finished artwork." But I think a certain amount of respect needs to be paid to the original mold. You could make a zombie or a vampire or a scarface Lishe and still have it be a Lishe. And if you're going to do those modifications, I think it would be a little disrespectful to the artistic vision of "Lishe" to do it poorly. It's your right to be disrespectful to that vision, to make your property look however you want, and you paid your dues and all. And while I think being seriously offended would be the wrong reaction, I think it's completely normal for someone to judge along the lines of "Hmm... that was a bad decision. It's really a shame it's been made so unfortunate looking." Just because it's your right to do what you like with your property, doesn't always make it a good idea, or make it in good taste.

 

There is a big difference to doing mods--even very significant mods that obscure the original sculpt and actually creating a head from scratch. People can be great at modding, but not so great at creating something from nothing. If nothing else, the head you're modding will at least give some good underlying structure to work from.

I also disagree with the idea of "disrespecting the artistic vision of a doll." Whose vision are we talking about now? Remember, ultimately, bjds are blank canvases for the owner's vision--that is what they're geared for. Not every doll will come out perfectly, and there's always going to be some disagreement about what makes a successful mod job, but that goes with the territory--I really don't think the companies are naive enough to believe otherwise. This is one of those cases where owners in this thread seem to have far more discomfort over the idea than the actual companies are likely to have--the companies made these dolls the way they did for a reason, and they didn't have to do that. When it comes to other types of dolls, while they can be customized, the companies didn't make it easy to do so--it wasn't the main point behind the doll. However, it is the main purpose of a bjd, so you have to expect a different mindset.

It's normal for people to look at pics of faceups or mods or outfits, whatever and think "If it were my doll I wouldn't have done it that way." Because we're all different, have different skill levels, different tastes. However, that does not mean there is truly any right or wrong way or reason for offense that somebody did something different than the way you would do it.

Opening a dreaming eyed head will give a different eye shape than just buying an open eyed head--there's a valid reason that people do that. I think companies knew what to expect when they started selling highly customizable dolls and customizing supplies. How they react is their choice, of course, but I would be very surprised to see a negative reaction from them for that reason. They made the dolls in a way to allow owners to do this. Even minimees are only at most an 80% likeness, and some people may want to try for that other 20% if they can, or the minimee head may have been closer to a character of theirs than any other (especially if you have a character that's a little older), so starting with a minimee head means some work, but far less than on a different more stylized sculpt. Again, some mods may not be as successful as others, but if a company accepts that people will mod their dolls, then that means they will have to accept the fact that people will sometimes make mistakes--you aren't going to have one without the other.

 

You (general) have the right to do whatever you want to your doll.
I have the right to think that you're (again, general) an idiot.
In fact, I shall go so far as to say I may laugh at whatever you (general!) did to your poor, poor doll. I've seen faceups that look like they should come with a disclaimer. "I have the shakes!" (Actually, if you have the shakes and do your own faceups, I ain't going to laugh. I'm not going to commission you, but I'm not going to laugh.)
But I won't tell you (still general!) that your doll brought me hours of merriment at the thought that someone put up pictures of that particular mutilation with their name attached, and thought it was a good idea.

Side note: if I see someone has posted pictures of a terrible mod, like poorly done vampire teeth, and doesn't see anything wrong with them being crooked or whatever, I'm probably not going to buy a doll from that person. Now, if someone posts a terrible mod where s/he was opening the eyes and the dremel slipped, and it's a HELP! HOW DO I FIX IT!, and they have a doll for sale that I want, I'd buy it. A person's opinion of what is a "quality" mod as compared to my opinion is a benchmark for how our opinions differ on "saleable condition." Faceups are different, because you can always take them off, but if someone has a doll with the nose sanded crookedly and they're offering a "slightly modded" head for sale, I, as a person who doesn't do mods myself, ain't even going to look.

Even if the mod is crappy, like two wildly different size eye sockets, and you (general! I haven't even seen this!) keep it that way to add character, there's a difference, in my mind, between "his eyes are two different sizes and I like him that way, it adds character," and "HIS EYES ARE FINE I'M JUST STARTING JEEZ CUT ME SOME SLACK."

 

I'm always a little horrified by the "it belongs to me so I can do what I want with it" idea. And I am appalled with the way some people treat their stuff. Yes, it's yours. But you paid money for it. And that money came from someone's (yours, your parents', etc.) hard work.

When it comes to dolls, it's not only the financial issue, but if you treat your doll badly you are disrespecting someone's art. Dolls are usually given a lot of TLC before they come to us, and the companies expect that we are going to care for them nicely. Not hack them to bits. Otherwise, what's the point of putting all the love and care they do into the dolls in the first place?

There are lots of cheap YGWYPF dolls on the market these days. If you really want to practice body mods, get a cheap body. If you want to practice facial mods or faceups, get some cheap heads. Don't just buy your dream doll and go to town on it. Or worse, wreck a limited doll. Yes, the dolls were made to be modified if the owner was up to that. If the owner was up to that. As in, by people who know what they're doing. Not by kids with sandpaper and sharpies who think that they know how to do whatever but who really don't.

And with some mods, the way I see it ... just look harder. If you can't find a doll with the nose you want, you're not looking hard enough. I found a directory of over 120 doll companies. Surely ONE of them has the type of face you need.

 

Hookay--scrap the cars metaphor, haha. Perhaps it wasn't as apt as I thought.

Just to clarify--I totally agree that, once paid for and in an owner's hands, the doll is theirs to do with as they choose, whether that means putting it in a dark closet and looking at it once a week or hurling it down the stairs (*shudders*) and taking artistic photographs. Most of what owners do to their dolls has its place, even if you personally don't agree with it.

That said, I think Muisje put it best:

I guess what bothers me most is people who appear to have jumped into modding their dolls without carefully thinking about what they are doing, and end up with poorly modified dolls as a result. If you're setting out with a goal of "I will practice on this doll," fine. If you've studied up and have the best tools you're able to get, awesome. If you just want a different eye shape and aren't willing to go about it patiently and carefully, that irks me.

 

Doll companies put all the love and care into their dolls so people would buy them. Period. This is a business venture to them, nothing more, nothing less.

They'd probably like us to hack their dolls to bits, because that would mean we will buy more doll and doll parts of we make a mistake.

Money is what's keeping these doll companies in business. Money is what able these companies to make new dolls. It may not only be a financial issue, but money is a HUGE part of it. I doubt any of these companies would survive with just the squee of fangirls and boys to sustain them.

And as many here previously stated, one of the major positive aspect of this hobby is the customization aspect. Who's to say that someone's "ugly" mod is truly ugly in the owner's eyes? As long as they're happy with the end result of their work, that's all that matters.

Besides, if you really want to take the doll companies' artists feelings...that's a bit of a slippery slope. Who's to say that those artists aren't horrified when their dolls are put into newbie-made sock dresses or newbie-made fur wig? Would the owner be wrong then, just because their skills/money situation/etc isn't living up to a doll company artist's vision of their "art"?

 

Companies put a lot of care into their dolls, but they have also made them with a particular customer in mind, for a particular purpose, in a particular hobby where customization is the big thing--especially customization by the actual owners. This is a hobby that by it's very nature (it has it's roots in figure kits if that tells you anything) where things are not just left up to the pros. The companies I am sure are very well aware of this, since they cater to those need--dolls sold blank, bald, and naked right along side customizing equipment--sandpaper, eye bevels, paint brushes etc. (Volks has a nice selection of various knives as well). What do you think they expect us to do with that equipment, exactly? And lets face it, if there is going to be modding going on, their are also going to be first attempts (we all have to start somewhere), and just plain oopsies, because not everything turns out the way we might like--that's life.

It's pointless to say something like "just buy a different head that's a better fit", because some people either can't find all the exact feature they want on one head (yes, even with all those companies), or they really just want to give modding a shot. Some people get into this hobby, because they really want to customize--that's the main draw for them. As for 'cheap dolls', if I were going to mod for the first time, I personally would choose a less expensive head, but to play devil's advocate for a moment--if you think bjds should be treated as art pieces, then the less expensive dolls (many of which are actually quite nice) fall into that category as well. So where is the cut off? At what point is it ok to mod and at what point are you supposed to ship the doll off to an experienced person? It's all completely arbitrary and value is largely relative. $200 is a lot less than $500 which is a lot less than $1000, yet to most people outside the hobby $200 is a large sum of money. I personally hope that people who are modding for the first time do research so they know what tools to use and have some idea of what to expect--it'll be much less frustrating for them and they increase the odds of getting the doll closer to what they wanted. However, even that is no guarantee of immediate success, and how do you think the experienced people got experience? What did people do when the only dolls available were from Volks and Luts and Custom House when there weren't less expensive alternatives? It's also interesting to note, that while Volks is often thought of as being on the higher end and though they sell far more LEs than standards, they also carry one of the largest selections of customizing supplies (along with Soom--man, I'm kind of impressed, lol).

I love bjds, and I respect and appreciate the companies, but I'm not going to exaggerate bjds into something that they're not--they are artistic, they are a form of art, but they are not fine art pieces that are supposed to stay as is. That is not their intention, and considering what you have brought up about the companies, not the way they are marketed. It is also not the culture of the hobby. The modding--both successful and that which leaves something to be desired is not disrespectful--it's the owner finishing off the equation that the company artists are only one part of.

 

So, how is one supposed to get skilled at modding dolls, without doing it, messing up a few times during the learning process and what not? How is ones modding abilities supposed to ever "match up" to the original artists if they don't mess a few up? Are these people supposed to buy cheaper, less quality dolls in order to "respect" the original artists?

Sorry, no, that doesn't add up.


First, there's the obvious, it's there doll, its there money, they can do what they want.

Secondly, if their modding is coming out how they want it, or getting to where they want it, then their doll is going to be more beautiful to them.

Bringing me to the third point, yes, these dolls are artist created. To be produced in decently mass amounts, for sale, because all doll companies are businesses at the end of the day. The artists who do the sculpting know that the dolls are made geared towards customization.




All in all, I believe dolls should be looked at as a wonderful collaberation.


Just because someone isn't "there" yet by your standards doesn't mean they should in any way be banned from modding. Or face ups. Or sewing. Or anything.

If you don't like it, either give some CONSTRUCTIVE crit, or don't look

 

Yes anyone can do anything to their own dolls. Just don't attempt to sell the modified mess at the price you paid for the original! Your hundreds of hours of work are worth zip if the result is dreadful. Yes, you might find someone who shares your vision for the LE with the ears hacked off, the eyes enlarged to golf balls and the mouth carved into a smile, but it might take a while..........

 

I am very new to this whole BJD thang, so I thought I might throw my two shillings in.

I believe that everyone has the right to customize their dolls as they see fit. If you want to poke a hole in the middle of her forehead and call it a third eye, more power to you. Modifications, either good or bad, are what bring the uniqueness and creativity to this hobby. Sure, not all mods are going to be shining bastions of artistry, but at least that person tried. And, to be frank, if they are happy with their finished product, that is all that really matters. Yeah, BJDs are expensive masses of resin - but they pretty much exist to be customized...and I suppose owners should do whatever it is that makes them happiest without having to worry about feelings of guilt if they "destroy" a dollie in the eyes of another.

On a personal level, I'm pretty sure that I would only share a mod with the community that I was very proud of. Moreover, I wouldn't post it in the critiques section, because I am a big baby. If I did a mod that I was unhappy with, I would do my best to fix it...and if I made it worse, I'd probably cry and show it to no one. However, I am neurotic and strange, so it is probably best not to follow my example.

So what have I done? I'm not going to lie, I have no dolls in my possession currently (one is on the way, but she'll have factory face-up, so I won't be doing much of anything to her). This may sound strange, but I've actually been practicing face-ups in GIMP with blank doll head JPEGs. I know that's a little weird, but it helps me to see whether I can get some of the aesthetic part down at the very least. From there, I plan to try my first *real* face up on a BBB or Obitsu head - something relatively affordable.

I don't really know where I'm getting at with that. I see what the original poster was going for, but at the same time it kind of breaks my heart that people would maybe judge someone else's work so harshly. I mean...I do some miniature painting, and I kind of suck at it...but if someone told me that to my face, I would surely quit in an instant! As a result, I would never get any better! I guess I'm kind of just rambling at this point.

But yes, if you do mods probably say that you did them. I mean, if you were proud of the work, wouldn't you want to anyway?