BJDs and unskilled modifications

True.
While I do get the basic point of the argument for this thread, and I am one of those people that will cringe when a limited doll (or just a non-limited doll) is 'ruined (modded badly-in my eyes at least)', modding is the person's own choice. I stick with JennyNemesis on the modding issue and judging what's good and what isn't. Even though I may not like the mod, I can't help but smile when the owner gushes over how much they enjoyed the process and loved their doll. The owner can do what they want. It may be beautiful in their eyes, and that's the point, right? If you don't like it, move on.

I think that dolls and paintings can be compared, but this also shows the difference about doll modification. I mean, a Manet painting isn't MEANT to be modified, where as a doll is. Remember doll kits? Yeah...and how about this wig changes? We modify our dolls in different ways. I suppose dolls can be like paintings in that there are different styles, and we may like some styles, and hate the others- but we have no right to judge which one of those styles is more 'art' than the others. :/

Anyway, JennyNemesis said it already. :3

[EDIT: See TheFontBandit's post below as well. Agreed.]

 

On this topic... I don't think it's a fear of failure as in "I'll screw up and damage the doll". I think it's more a fear of social failure, that the mod will be seen by others as horrible. I know I was afraid that others would see my first few attempts at faceups as feeble and ugly. Some BJD owners are uninterested with the social aspect of the hobby, or with other people's opinions of their work. But some are more sensitive to the negative opinions of others. I know the general answer to this is "well, get a thicker skin", but for many it's far easier just never to try. And personally I find that sad... that some people would rather not express themselves or explore their creativity because of the opinions expressed in threads like this one.

 

It's not that difficult to find a resin head for $40 or less, even straight from some companies. Fairyland's MNF sleeping heads are only $27 with a MNF, despite what they get offered for on the marketplace. That's still a lot of money to mess up, but better than ruining a very expensive doll or worse, a limited.

I absolutely think everyone has the right to do whatever they want to something they've bought. I also think it's really stupid to ruin something expensive simply because of lack of research. If someone wants to severely mod their doll, they should go for it, I just hope they'll do a bit of research first so they don't accidentally ruin it (and their hard work), or damage their own health by breathing in resin dust or MSC.

That's talking about RUINING dolls, though. If a person considers a mod they've done successful, then it's not ruined. It may look like it to others, but to the owner it's not, and that's what counts.

I think part of the issue in this thread is that people are saying things they usually would think but never say out loud. I've seen some seriously fugly dolls (few on here, though), with truly horrifically bad faceups. But I would NEVER say anything to the person about it! I figure they have eyes, and anyone with vision can see it's bad. Maybe it was deliberate, or maybe their idea of "good" is different than mine, or maybe the character's meant to have horrid makeup, or maybe they need glasses but haven't got any.
It's only when they show it off as the best thing ever and talk about doing commissions that I even think those things, though! Otherwise I assume they're learning and congratulate them on attempting a faceup at all. I know my faceups aren't all that (the second was so bad I didn't even take photos!) and I admit that and try my best to improve.

I certainly think the lady in my handbell group who has played for over 18 years and is still worse at it than the 4-year-olds and shows no sign of improvement should probably admit defeat, find some pastime or another group she's better suited for and quit holding back our entire group who are otherwise moderate - to - advanced. I would NEVER say that to her, though.
It's not my place to judge that, any more than it's my place to judge if a person should be doing mods or not. If they enjoy it, they should do it. But if they ask if they should take commissions I might gently suggest they reconsider, and will obviously not commission them myself.

And if they "ruin", in my opinion, a doll I adore, I will make sure to avoid their gallery threads.

 

My apologies. It honestly wasn't meant that way. I would be leery of modding a doll's head if it cost $30 or $3000. I'm not skilled enough to do what I would like to do. Therefore whatever I end up with would probably be a failure (in my eyes). That's money down the drain. I feel much better working with mods I can fix.

I understand (and agree with) Taco's point about how it's sad that somebody wouldn't try something new just because they're afraid they'll fail. But I really look at it from a practical standpoint. That $30 for a head I may or may not screw up beyond repair could be put to better use. I'm not willing to spend money on wishful thinking (and more supplies to practice with) when I have bills to pay. So if I ever want a mod done I'll jot down all the details and commission somebody here. The commissioner gets paid and more practice. I get a mod I love and I don't feel stupid trying to do it myself. Win-win.

 

I think the heart of the debate is people telling other people when they should or shouldn't mod their own dolls. There's absolutely nothing wrong with commissioning an established modder. If that works better for you, then it makes perfect sense and there's no reason to try modding on your own.

I think people are getting up in arms over statements in this thread that come off as "no one should mod their dolls if they're not good enough". That's vastly different from "I'd prefer to commission someone rather than possibly make a mistake doing a mod myself". It's that whole "I statement/you statement" thing that therapists use when defusing a potential confrontation.

Just because one person is happier commissioning a mod, that doesn't mean another person may be happier doing a less professional mod on their own. For example, I know my faceups aren't nearly as clean or detailed as professional ones, but I'm far happier doing the work myself because I enjoy the actual faceup process. To each his/her own, I say.

 

As much as someone has the right to treat their doll as they see fit, other people equally have the right to decide whether they like it or whether it repulses them. This has always been the nature of art.

However, in spite of seeing many beautiful dolls, I see BJD customisation mostly as a craft or an art rather than art itself - say a ming vase as opposed to a Cezanne - so the balance of skill is different depending on whether you are a craftsman or a fine artist and dolls will often be judged according to the skill level of the person who has painted them.

That's not to say you can't excel in other areas. Maybe if you aren't terribly good at faceups, but you could still do great photoshoots with interesting subject matter and composition. Maybe just coming up with an interesting character for your doll that nobody's thought of before. I guess that's partly where the art comes in. Paul Cezanne was pretty terrible at drawing but eventually became an acclaimed artist for other reasons.

I'm very rarely repulsed by other people's not so good efforts because people do have to start somewhere. I don't quite get those, and there are many more than seem to be posting here, who would not even consider an 'average' faceup and will always pay somebody else to do it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just find the customisation part of the fun rather than just having a finished product but I guess that's my personal take on the hobby.

I do think it's a shame when somebody has clearly damaged the doll beyond repair seemingly on a whim in one afternoon with a screwdriver - that's just careless. I think the worst doll I ever saw was a girl doll, covered in dirt with gaffer tape on her nipples. That is pure laziness with no effort involved at all and I'm afraid I will judge people accordingly.

 

I wasn't suggesting that everyone who decides they don't want to mod is afraid of failure--it's not everyone's cup or tea, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to send the head to someone else to work on. However, I have come in contact with a fair amount of people in my life who really are and don't want to try things because they are afraid that they won't be good enough. They aren't worried about money or other practicalities, they're worried about how they might look to other people.

It's not actually uncommon for people to be intimidated by the idea of creating art themselves. There is also something of a tendency in today's culture to be less hands on, or to assume if you can't reach a certain level it isn't worthwhile. When I say this, of course that doesn't mean everybody feels that way--that should be obvious, but it happens enough that it's worth saying here--especially as one of the posters was feeding into that way of thinking by insisting that people who aren't at a certain skill level shouldn't bother--that suggests that the chance of failure is something to be feared and avoided at all costs (otherwise, if a person wanted to, shouldn't they at least give it a try?). I personally find that attitude a really poor one to take, as it ignores all the positive things that come from creative activities--you don't have to be a pro to have fun and get something out of this---this is a hobby after all.

If you're happiest sending the head off, then that's absolutely fine, but I worry about the people who really do want to mod, but are being held back by the fear of 'not being good enough.'

 

I agree with this. There is a LOT of fear I've seen here - I can't count the number of people I've seen who are absolutely terrified of doing ANYTHING to their dolls, even something as simple as restringing, wiring or hot-glue sueding. Wiring literally takes less than a minute per limb, no skill, no equipment (not counting the wire, of course), and no disassembling of the doll - but there are people who are very afraid, and would rather pay someone else to do it. Then there is the other end of the spectrum - the ones who post over on the customization forum about how they accidentally glued their doll's piercing on in the wrong place with superglue and decided since they were changing it they'd remove the faceup they did with permanent markers and oops, the bright blue acetone nail polish remover melted and dyed their doll but didn't budge the piercing or faceup; and then ask if they did something wrong and should they put human sunscreen on their other doll to prevent yellowing since they have one with a lemon-yellow tan on it's face and hands from sitting in the sunny window for a few months.

I advocate a happy medium. Don't be afraid to mod your doll, if you want to. You have the right to do so. If you've never done it before, though, do a little research first! It'll be more likely to turn out well that way, and even if it turns out "bad" it'll still be better than going in blind and wasting your time, effort and money.

 

Not to be a stirrer of the drama cauldron, but this just doesn't sit well with me. I really don't think you should be judging other people's attitudes when it seems you have a particularly elitist one yourself. Moreover, this just seems like a ridiculously wonky blanket statement. If you don't have innate artistic talent, don't try art? Last I checked, art was something that can be honed or even taught. I mean...if I were to give a two-year-old a coloring book, should I take it away and scold them because they don't make it in the lines? To be frank, to me it comes off as disrespectful when you suggest that people should just give up. I don't think people would have as many qualms with this thread if you presented your argument in a manner that didn't seem so vitriolic.

I don't know...I suppose it's possible that I am either misunderstanding or inferring malice that is unintentional, but if what I've gleaned is correct, it kind of saddens me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, sure...but every comment you've made has somehow managed to make me feel less artistically inclined. I realize that this is totally irrational, but I guess it would be nice for you to know that this is how you are coming off to some people (at least the particularly sensitive ones, I suppose).

Edit: TheFontBandit's first post on this page sums up how I feel about the issue pretty well. Unfortunately I didn't read the whole thing until after I had posted. Wah-wah.

 

Sorry, but oyashiro's post made me re-read this comment and I'd like to add something:

There's a huge difference between intentionally damaging something for the sake of damage (as in your example), versus trying to express creativity through improvements and it just not turning out well. The intent of most modding is not to "break the doll just because it's yours". The intent is to realize a creative vision through improvements. No, it doesn't always turn out as well as it was hoped, but it's vastly different from breaking something on purpose.

 

I would never try to re-string a violin without finding out how it is done, seeing someone else do it, and then having them monitor and direct me as I try it myself. It's just not in my nature to attempt to modify anything of any kind on my own without having enough experience to know what I am doing thoroughly.

My same mentality applies to modding-- I would never, ever try it without first seeing it done and then being monitored and directed while I tried it myself. And that's just experimenting with modding, maybe on a test head. If after all that I was then comfortable modding on my own and I had an idea to mod one of my own dolls, only then would I even fathom doing it.

All I can say is: ALWAYS do some research and get some hands-on experience with something before trying to do it seriously. Especially when it comes to things you can't fix if you mess up (cough, limiteds, cough).

 

Uhh, wait... are you sure that wasn't just a really good Wendy O. Williams or Karen Finley cosplay doll?

 

Wow. A little off-topic, but I would LOVE to see a Wendy O. Williams cosplay doll xD she's awesome!

 

I was joking, of course, but-- it's not really so OT when you consider that art is in the eye of a beholder. Someone making such a doll would be creating modifications that others would find repulsive, horrifying, or mistaken for 'lazy' (as in the quote above). In this case, your Karen doll wouldn't look right until it was all grimy and bruised and smeary and bug-eyed, and your Wendy doll wouldn't look right until she was properly scarred-up and bedecked with nipple tape. Such art surely would challenge the OP's notions of Properly Skilled Art.

 

I don't think you can compare a one of a kind piece of art with a doll that is not one of a kind. I cannot think of hardly ANY dolls of which only ONE was made. Including one-offs, their molds are still available elsewhere 99% of the time.

Obviously if an artist sculpted a doll and cast a total of 1 doll, then it would be a horrible thing to go and modify that 1 existing doll, like modifying the Mona Lisa.

With that Mona Lisa as an example, however, when the original is 'safe', or when other dolls of that mold exist, people become more free to modify their 'copies'. That is why you can buy plenty of prints of the Mona Lisa smoking weed, or with a mustache, or various other 'mods'.

What I do find to be interesting is that if a mod becomes very popular, like modding the sleeping breakaway 05 into an open eye, then the 'original' state becomes rare and more valuable than if everyone had just left it alone.

 

I agree with Buff's comment. Obviously modifying an One-of-a-Kind would be crazy if one isn't a skilled artist, but when a doll is made with a mold, there isn't anything bad in blushing, painting and so on.
Otherwise, how could people learn by trial and error? I think even the best BJD modders must have started somewhere - in Italy we say "nobody was born learned"!

 

Let's take this further. Even if it's a One-Of-A-Kind....why should it matter if the owner decides to modify it?

It's theirs. They paid for it. It's their possession. Comparing an OOAK BJD to the Mona Lisa is kinda silly, considering no matter how good an OOAK BJD may be, it can never compare to an artwork like the Mona Lisa, that has such a rich historical importance.

Is it a matter of jealousy? Does the fact that someone has modded a doll that you want is what's horrifying you? Because IMHO, if someone modded a super-rare doll, I wouldn't bat an eye, IF I don't particularly like that doll. But even then, do I think they're wrong to mod their doll? No. When they forked over the money to get that doll, it's theirs to do as they please.

Freedom. Ain't it great?

 

I've seen several zombie mods where the only thing I could think of was "Why?" but they aren't my doll, they don't impact my ability to love my doll and they don't make my doll look any less pretty, so why worry about it?

This is why I stay away from organized religion, I hate having to do what everyone else says I need to do...

So I'll keep my "homebrewed" face up, my experiments in painting chest hair and any other mods I've done because they make me feel closer to my dolls.

 

Everyone is unskilled until they try, fail, and try again.

I bought a doll that was modified by someone who was new at it, thus there were some problems with the mod that needed to be repaired, but the repairing only made me love him that much more! I think everyone should be given the chance to try and fail.

 

Also, here's an idea...

Say the Mona Lisa had just been painted. Mister Someone or Other buys it from da Vinci and he takes it home, then 2 weeks later realizes...wow, I hate this woman's eyebrows and he carefully paints over it, turning the Mona Lisa into what we know it as today.

We now identify the Mona Lisa by the quirk of having no eyebrows but at the time, perhaps it seemed crazy. Art evolves and grows, it's a living entity unto itself and thus it must be allowed to change without anger or grudge. Changing a one off may seem like an insane idea, but you never know what amazing thing might happen.